Trade, FA, Rumour Thread, Summer Edition

[Flair Hay]

Honestly, Copp is probably easily worth a 1st to a contender at the trade deadline, where picks tend to be undervalued.

Copp is far better than Foligno, who went for a 1st. Savard (yes, he’s a defenceman, but still) isn’t very good and he’s an upcoming UFA and he went for a 1st. Years ago Paul Gaustad went for a 1st.

I know Goodrow had an extra year on his contract, but he’s not even a third of the player Copp is and he went for 1st too.

There’s plenty of evidence to suggest Copp would return more than just a 2nd at the deadline, so if that’s all that’s being offered now I doubt you see a trade. But I figure teams would offer more for Copp because he’s very valuable.

Tough thing is, how do you trade him if he is playing top 6 on a team 2nd or 3rd in the division and possibly looking at home ice?

If we are having a rougher year than I anticipate, them yeah it's a no brainer. But if we are looking at competing to be in the final 8 teams again, how do you trade him?

 

[Flair Hay]

If we are acquiring a top pairing RHD, I’d rather keep Samberg and trade Heinola..though I don’t know if Dumba qualifies as top pairing?

To me he absolutely does. Fast, physical, great puck mover, and can skate it out if trouble. He is an elusive guy with the puck. Good offensive IQ, and has a great shot too.

He isnt a shut down type, but he is pretty solid these days as he is an experienced guy (same draft year as Trouba). He doesnt have the biggest size, but he is signed for 2 years at an excellent price.

I'd obviously prefer a 6'3 215+ guy with the same skill set, but that's a whole different price point we are talking.

Dumba for some good but not elite calibre prospect is a big win for us with how bad our defense has held us back last two years

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

From what I have seen if a player has made their way to the edge of UFA status they usually bet on themselves and try to maximize money and go where they want.

I recall an interview with Copp right after he signed the 2 year deal that he wanted to do something long term but that the cap situation limited that and they would revisit it later. He sounded legit that he was looking to do something long term with the organization and was willing to wait till we have the cap to do so.

With the Lowry deal in the books, we have the cap to do it this offseason, which I believe we will.

 

[WolfHouse]

I recall an interview with Copp right after he signed the 2 year deal that he wanted to do something long term but that the cap situation limited that and they would revisit it later. He sounded legit that he was looking to do something long term with the organization and was willing to wait till we have the cap to do so.

With the Lowry deal in the books, we have the cap to do it this offseason, which I believe we will.

Copp is worth about $1 million more than Lowry.... I'm sure that's the contract that will be agreed to and all this hand-wringing and fantasy trades can be put to rest

 

[Adam da bomb]

Copp is worth about $1 million more than Lowry.... I'm sure that's the contract that will be agreed to and all this hand-wringing and fantasy trades can be put to rest

How do you figure? Lowry I think has definitely been the better come playoffs.

 

[jetsfaneh]

I wouldn’t trade Samberg for an unsigned Dumba. Not even sure I do that for a signed Dumba.

I want Chevy to set his sights higher than Dumba, and then will need Samberg and his ELC contract and skill set to off set that acquisition.

I would move Stanley before I move Samberg in trade.

Dumba also has a M-NTC that kicks in now I believe. Would the Regina boy have us on his 10 team no go list?

 

[tbcwpg]

Dumba also has a M-NTC that kicks in now I believe. Would the Regina boy have us on his 10 team no go list?

I'm gonna guess yes. I don't think that starts until the official end of this season, though, which would be Free Agency day.

 

[Daximus]

Dumba also has a M-NTC that kicks in now I believe. Would the Regina boy have us on his 10 team no go list?

I believe all the contract kick-ins were moved until the new start of free agency date, which is July 28th this year. Though the wild are on an even tighter timeline as the XD is on the 21st of July and I think teams have to have their lists in 48 hours before that sometimes on July 19th. So they have 13 days to make a trade with Dumba or protect him and risk losing a forward.

 

[Flair Hay]

How do you figure? Lowry I think has definitely been the better come playoffs.

Points still the number one thing that drives salary for forwards and defense. And Copp just had a good amount of them.

 

[snowkiddin]

Tough thing is, how do you trade him if he is playing top 6 on a team 2nd or 3rd in the division and possibly looking at home ice?

If we are having a rougher year than I anticipate, them yeah it's a no brainer. But if we are looking at competing to be in the final 8 teams again, how do you trade him?

Yeah, at that point you would keep him as an own rental. I’m just saying he would have that kind of value then and most likely has that kind of value now too.

 

[Flair Hay]

Yeah, at that point you would keep him as an own rental. I’m just saying he would have that kind of value then and most likely has that kind of value now too.

That's definitely fair. I agree he could have that value around the deadline.

 

[Bob E]

Dumba is inked for two more years and we only have two slots for our young LD.

I like Heinola more then Samberg and think he has higher upside. You then have Stanley that does a lot of what Samberg does.

That’s where we differ surixon.

Samberg offers top 4 shutdown capabilities. Stanley adds more offence, but is not a shutdown dman. Same as Poolman isn’t a shutdown dman either. Samberg has played that role at WJCs and UMD, and has shown the same ability with Moose. It’s his skating ability, smarts during board battles and quickness with gap control that differentiates him from Stanley.

Heinola and Morrissey play a more similar game. I just don’t think you can have both, along with Pionk, on a team that is challenging for a cup.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

No guarantee Sieder is that player either but your paying a package that treats him as if he already is one in his prime.

I personally don't actually see the need to pay an obscene price for an actual number 1 dmen. I think this team with our goaltending and forward talent can contend with a collection of real good but not elite dmen.

I also don't think we have the organizational depth to offer a 4 for 1 type deal either. We are loosing a player to Seattle, Copp is one year from FA and Wheeler is quickly aging out of a top 6 role. Our top 9 could be a bit thin as soon as a season from now. I think we need to keep and integrate our young forwards to keep that area of the roster strength.

I am more and more leaning towards retooling with youth while grabbing a couple of solid dmen to augment our group.

I get your POV, I just don't think we can contend that way. We need more excellence, not more adequacy.

Of course there is no guarantee with Seider. There is no guarantee with any player. There is no guarantee with any of the pieces I am offering in trade, though 4 chances improves the odds.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Seider IS the quality that he does have though and he isn't going to give him up without a massive overpay and even then I think he probably hold onto him. It's hard enough to find good young RHD, even harder to find them with size. Seider is a 6'3 physical young RHD with two-way skill. Those don't grow on tree's. Think of it this way if we had a Seider in the system, we wouldn't give him away for anything less than a more developed version of the same player and even then we might keep him because he's cost controlled.

I get where you are coming from with value but the value of having a 6'3 RHD in your system developing well trumps anything else you can really give them outside of making an offer so ridiculous he has to say yes and that likely includes Ehlers.

Exactly why I want him - and I am offering a massive overpay. But entirely made up of futures. That wouldn't impress a team nearing the end of a rebuild. It should impress a team near the beginning of one. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Not going to offer Ehlers, or any other core member of the current roster unless it was a 1 for 1.

 

[surixon]

I get your POV, I just don't think we can contend that way. We need more excellence, not more adequacy.

Of course there is no guarantee with Seider. There is no guarantee with any player. There is no guarantee with any of the pieces I am offering in trade, though 4 chances improves the odds.

I get it. Something else you need to consider is Sieder's development. How long does it take him to become a star dmen. He might not become that dominant dmen for a couple of years. By that point our core is mostly off their good deals.

We also won't have the young talent to build around Sieder after sending Perfetti, Heinola and a first for him. Look at say Sergachev it's taken him a couple of seasons since getting to Tampa to really establish himself as a high end dmen. I think that is a likely development arc for Sieder.

I just think it's too risky to make this type of trade with such a tight contention window.

What I might be in favor of is an org reset where maybe we move an Ehlers for Sieder and then maybe start a retool around a young core with a longer window:

You could then build a forward core around:
Dubois, Perfetti, Conner and Scheifele

You'd then be able to build a defense around Sieder, Heinola, Morrissey, Pionk, and Samberg.

Shipping out a contract like Ehlers would allow you to sign Scheifele and Helle to big dollar extensions while taking advantage of the cheaper years of your prospects.

You could then allow the young guys to grow into the key roles instead of hoping g they can hit the ground running right away.

I think if you want to win in the next three years you need an elite established dmen to push them over the top. If you are looking a bit more longer horizon then maybe trade an established young forward for a great d prospect to grow into that number 1.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I get it. Something else you need to consider is Sieder's development. How long does it take him to become a star dmen. He might not become that dominant dmen for a couple of years. By that point our core is mostly off their good deals.

We also won't have the young talent to build around Sieder after sending Perfetti, Heinola and a first for him. Look at say Sergachev it's taken him a couple of seasons since getting to Tampa to really establish himself as a high end dmen. I think that is a likely development arc for Sieder.

I just think it's too risky to make this type of trade with such a tight contention window.

What I might be in favor of is an org reset where maybe we move an Ehlers for Sieder and then maybe start a retool around a young core with a longer window:

You could then build a forward core around:
Dubois, Perfetti, Conner and Scheifele

You'd then be able to build a defense around Sieder, Heinola, Morrissey, Pionk, and Samberg.

Shipping out a contract like Ehlers would allow you to sign Scheifele and Helle to big dollar extensions while taking advantage of the cheaper years of your prospects.

You could then allow the young guys to grow into the key roles instead of hoping g they can hit the ground running right away.

I think if you want to win in the next three years you need an elite established dmen to push them over the top. If you are looking a bit more longer horizon then maybe trade an established young forward for a great d prospect to grow into that number 1.

That approach could work. You might be expecting too much from Scheifele and Helle though. Too soon to judge that, but they may not be worth their next contracts.

Just call it a hunch, but I think Seider develops quickly. But yes, it is risky.

Ehlers alone doesn't get Seider.

 

[surixon]

That approach could work. You might be expecting too much from Scheifele and Helle though. Too soon to judge that, but they may not be worth their next contracts.

Just call it a hunch, but I think Seider develops quickly. But yes, it is risky.

Ehlers alone doesn't get Seider.

Hard to judge with goalies and how they will age. Scheifele I see as the Wheeler type vet who likely is more complimentary at that point. I'd actually be using him more as a scoring winger on Perfetti's line at that point.

I think the org needs to decide on a direction pretty soon. Go all in with our current group or try to retool with youth ala 16 and onward.

 

[Nickel eye Heel hers]

I get it. Something else you need to consider is Sieder's development. How long does it take him to become a star dmen. He might not become that dominant dmen for a couple of years. By that point our core is mostly off their good deals.

We also won't have the young talent to build around Sieder after sending Perfetti, Heinola and a first for him. Look at say Sergachev it's taken him a couple of seasons since getting to Tampa to really establish himself as a high end dmen. I think that is a likely development arc for Sieder.

I just think it's too risky to make this type of trade with such a tight contention window.

What I might be in favor of is an org reset where maybe we move an Ehlers for Sieder and then maybe start a retool around a young core with a longer window:

You could then build a forward core around:
Dubois, Perfetti, Conner and Scheifele

You'd then be able to build a defense around Sieder, Heinola, Morrissey, Pionk, and Samberg.

Shipping out a contract like Ehlers would allow you to sign Scheifele and Helle to big dollar extensions while taking advantage of the cheaper years of your prospects.

You could then allow the young guys to grow into the key roles instead of hoping g they can hit the ground running right away.

I think if you want to win in the next three years you need an elite established dmen to push them over the top. If you are looking a bit more longer horizon then maybe trade an established young forward for a great d prospect to grow into that number 1.

If we're talking long term, and Dubois is actually a 1C, I trade Scheifele + for a top 2D instead of Ehlers.
Dubois at 1C possible Perfetti at 2C long term. Scheifele is already 28 and looks like he's starting to cheat on D. He's not going to get better, trade him while he has value. Ehlers will likely contribute more to the team in the future.

 

[surixon]

If we're talking long term, and Dubois is actually a 1C, I trade Scheifele + for a top 2D instead of Ehlers.
Dubois at 1C possible Perfetti at 2C long term. Scheifele is already 28 and looks like he's starting to cheat on D. He's not going to get better, trade him while he has value. Ehlers will likely contribute more to the team in the future.

That is another idea but I'd like to see how Dubois rebounds and how Cole.perform first before we do that.

Mark would definitely return a top dmen.

 

[Flair Hay]

That is another idea but I'd like to see how Dubois rebounds and how Cole.perform first before we do that.

Mark would definitely return a top dmen.

That, to me, is the definition of robbing Peter to pay Paul lol

 

[ps241]

What would we give up for John Klingberg? He is entering the last year of his contract?

 

[surixon]

What would we give up for John Klingberg? He is entering the last year of his contract?

Good question. Maybe a couple of seconds like what the Avs gave up for Toews?

 

[ps241]

Good question. Maybe a couple of seconds like what the Avs gave up for Toews?

Can’t believe they got Toews for that. Lou is overrated.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

Did Copp sign a new contract with us today?

A buddy of mine said he heard it this morning but I don't see any confirmation anywhere.

Also note that my buddy drinks too much.

 

[surixon]

Did Copp sign a new contract with us today?

A buddy of mine said he heard it this morning but I don't see any confirmation anywhere.

Also note that my buddy drinks too much.

Nothing has come out about Copp to the best of my knowledge.