Post-Game Talk: Trade Deadline Day 2017

[RockLobster]

Well atleast we dodged one bullet.

Pens board is beyond mad at Sakic. An apparant insider is saying that Pens offered exactly what Sakic wanted (Maatta + Jarry +1st (with maybe one of Guentzel/Sprong subbed in if we take Fleury instead of Jarry) and JR is beyond pissed at Sakic for negotiating in bad faith and not taking this amazing offer.


Taking that deal would have been way, way worse than doing nothing so atleast that is a plus...

I think it's a combination of Sakic being hesitant (as he's shown in the past), but also the fact that the Avs wouldn't have considered that offer as "meeting the demands". That's the primary reason why the Isles didn't land Duchene (they refused to put either Barzal or Sorokin in the discussion, and the Avs did not like any of their other prospects enough in a deal for Duchene).

But, if Sakic did keep moving the goalposts, then he wouldn't have been the first GM to do that...he just can't get into a habit of doing that or else he'll pretty much have the entire league pissed at him (I think he already does, because this isn't the first time he's been super passive about things).

 

[RockLobster]

I think he is being completely buried by Bednar though and admittedly his play has earned 60% of that, but the rest IMO falls on Bednar. I would much rather Compher be put on a line with Yeti than Mitchell.

Never got off on the right foot with Bednar and yeah, he buried him. Jared Bednar is coaching a team that is on pace for historical levels of awful this season, and more than that his handling of players (like Soderberg, for instance) leaves a lot to be desired.

I'm not even a big-time Soderberg fan-boy, but we've got a guy who, before this year (and not counting his 6 game first season with the Bruins) has scored at least 44 points every season in the league, with Roy helping him get to a career high of 51 last year (I say "help" because at least Roy put him in areas to succeed).

Soderberg needs the PP time (and wouldn't you know it, our PP needs some ****ing help too), he should be on the 3rd line. If you start putting him in situations that are beneficial to him as a player, then you have a better chance at helping him look more attractive as a player. If Soderberg could be penciled in for 40-45 points per season, the $4.75M price tag isn't quite the albatross it is now (it's still a smidge on the "higher" side, but not anything like it is now). Burying him on the 4th line or to the Press Box isn't doing anyone any favors.

Soderberg may have earned the demotion in the lineup, but we're long past that type of behavior from a coach with this type of record and losing season...start putting him back in situations that can help him succeed, that's what a coach is supposed to do--try to get the best out of your players.

 

[AslanRH]

That's cap circumvention and not how the CBA works, there is nothing in it that says a player and a club can mutually terminate a contract. Clubs can only terminate a contract in case the player has been in violation of the CBA conduct policy.

You may be right, but I do not believe that is the case. Mueller, Rundblad, Cominski, and even if I recall our own Joakim Lindstrom

I believe it just takes clearing unconditional waivers and the player generally going to another league (Europe, KHL).

I think league approval is required for the player to stay in the NHL which would be highly unlikely as it would be seen as circumvention. I think it was argued quite a bit during the Luongo - Vancouver drama.

 

[Ivan13]

You may be right, but I do not believe that is the case. Mueller, Rundblad, Cominski, and even if I recall our own Joakim Lindstrom

I believe it just takes clearing unconditional waivers and the player generally going to another league (Europe, KHL).

I think league approval is required for the player to stay in the NHL which would be highly unlikely as it would be seen as circumvention. I think it was argued quite a bit during the Luongo - Vancouver drama.

All of those contracts had one year left. Unconditional waivers serve for the purpose of putting a player up for a buyout.

 

[AvsCOL]

Never got off on the right foot with Bednar and yeah, he buried him. Jared Bednar is coaching a team that is on pace for historical levels of awful this season, and more than that his handling of players (like Soderberg, for instance) leaves a lot to be desired.

I'm not even a big-time Soderberg fan-boy, but we've got a guy who, before this year (and not counting his 6 game first season with the Bruins) has scored at least 44 points every season in the league, with Roy helping him get to a career high of 51 last year (I say "help" because at least Roy put him in areas to succeed).

Soderberg needs the PP time (and wouldn't you know it, our PP needs some ****ing help too), he should be on the 3rd line. If you start putting him in situations that are beneficial to him as a player, then you have a better chance at helping him look more attractive as a player. If Soderberg could be penciled in for 40-45 points per season, the $4.75M price tag isn't quite the albatross it is now (it's still a smidge on the "higher" side, but not anything like it is now). Burying him on the 4th line or to the Press Box isn't doing anyone any favors.

Soderberg may have earned the demotion in the lineup, but we're long past that type of behavior from a coach with this type of record and losing season...start putting him back in situations that can help him succeed, that's what a coach is supposed to do--try to get the best out of your players.

I agree wholeheartedly, which is why it's clear to me that Bednar has got to go. When you can pencil certain guys in to score, say, 40 points consistently like Soderberg, and suddenly he's scoring a quarter of that, I think you look directly at coaching. Every single player on this team in under performing right now, and no one is being held accountable.


I get that it's a lost season, you're not making the playoffs, but they're not even attempting to improve. Bednar needs to be gone, Sakic needs to step down, and a competent GM needs to be brought in.

 

[detrude]

Well I just think a dogmatic approach like that is dumb in the first place.

I mean for Carolina that would have meant Hanifin + Gauthier/Roy + 1st while from the Pens it apparentely meant Maatta + Jarry + 1st...

Of course one team will call you crazy and the other team will be mad at you for not pulling the trigger because they did meet your demands, didn't they?

Gigantic difference between those 2 offers...

I think you mean TO the pens, unless there's something out there that said that was Sakic's specific ask (I haven't seen it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist). I think it's more likely Sakic said here's what we're looking for (young roster player or prospect + another prospect + 1st + another piece) and that was their response. Like you said in the second half, I think this is why we're seeing so many reports of "we met their demands and they balked ."

The alarming yet unsurprising part is we've seen this from 3(?) different teams now. I have no problem with him telling teams to kick rocks that make bad offers, but that many teams thinking they met the price doesn't speak well for how he's handling things.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Yeah Barberio is much better than I expected. As somebody who has watched him a lot in person I liked him and understood his strengths and weaknesses but really didn't think he was any better than a guy like Redmond. I was wrong. He's better.

 

[bear16]

The trade deadline sucked. I'm not saying that Sakic should have dealt Duchene or Landeskog and I want to believe he tried to trade the team's UFAs-to be, but wasn't able too for one reason or another. I understand all that. My problem is what he does now... or in the summer.

NONE of these players should be on the roster in October.

Mitchell
Tyutin
Bourque
Gelinas
Goloubef

And IMO, neither of these RFA players should be re-signed either.

Grigorenko
Wiercioch

And like every other COL fan, I hope and pray that Sakic can somehow dispose of these players (though it'll take a miracle).

Beauchemin
Soderberg
Comeau
Colborne

I also hope Sakic doesn't foolishly use the cap space he's gained by giving these kinds of these contracts, just for the sake of having to use the money somewhere.

Oshie 7yrs $42M*
Alzner 7yrs $42M*

*Merely examples (I don't dislike either player or anything)

All that being said, I'm fairly certain that the 5 UFAs listed won't be back whereas the 2 RFAs I mentioned probably will be. I've pretty much reconciled myself to that last part.

My point is, commit to SOMETHING, Joe! A complete roster overhaul (I know, I know... those never happen and I'm not asking for it), a rebuild, a "retooling"... something!

Don't just bring back the UFAs because it's you have the money, or "they know the system" (WHAT ****ING SYSTEM?! lol). Don't just bring in high priced, big name UFAs either, cause that's not the answer. Give some of the guys in SA a shot this season and see what they've got. It can't be any worse, right? You say you want to get younger... well, they're the future. Now give them a chance. Not just Compher. See what Seimens and Grimaldi can do. Not just a one time call up to eat nachos, either. Give 'em ice time, Joe. PLEASE!

 

[Avs44]

The Pens board appears to be delusional, if they think that offer is 'by far the best and Rutherford got screwed'. I also find it interesting that I don't think any credible insider ever mentioned the Pens as a serious landing spot.

 

[Ararana]

Hopefully taking Duchene into the summer means we can revisit a potential trade with Carolina.

 

[EdAVSfan]

The Pens board appears to be delusional, if they think that offer is 'by far the best and Rutherford got screwed'. I also find it interesting that I don't think any credible insider ever mentioned the Pens as a serious landing spot.

Just read through it myself as well.

The main piece was Maatta, who right off the bat, should be a no go.
Jarry? Retention on fleury? That's preposterous that we'd accept these as inclusions.

The main piece was always going to be a op prospect, ideally from defence.

GMs going to the media to say they "met demands" are just being babies. Sakic asked for specific pieces, didn't get them, then when GMs substituted the players Sakic wanted for others, appear to be upset at the moving of goal posts.

Supposedly, islanders didn't include Barzal or hamonic and yet they "met demands" with two different variations.

**** off.

 

[Bender]

The trade deadline sucked. I'm not saying that Sakic should have dealt Duchene or Landeskog and I want to believe he tried to trade the team's UFAs-to be, but wasn't able too for one reason or another. I understand all that. My problem is what he does now... or in the summer.

NONE of these players should be on the roster in October.

Mitchell
Tyutin
Bourque
Gelinas
Goloubef

And IMO, neither of these RFA players should be re-signed either.

They won't be, they suck.

Grigorenko
Wiercioch

And like every other COL fan, I hope and pray that Sakic can somehow dispose of these players (though it'll take a miracle).

Beauchemin <- hoping for buyout, he sucks
Soderberg
Comeau <- hoping for trade for different depth player on same deal/term (ex: Bouma)
Colborne <- hoping for trade for different depth player on same deal/term (ex: Hayes)

I also hope Sakic doesn't foolishly use the cap space he's gained by giving these kinds of these contracts, just for the sake of having to use the money somewhere.

Oshie 7yrs $42M*
Alzner 7yrs $42M*

*Merely examples (I don't dislike either player or anything)

All that being said, I'm fairly certain that the 5 UFAs listed won't be back whereas the 2 RFAs I mentioned probably will be. I've pretty much reconciled myself to that last part.

My point is, commit to SOMETHING, Joe! A complete roster overhaul (I know, I know... those never happen and I'm not asking for it), a rebuild, a "retooling"... something!

Don't just bring back the UFAs because it's you have the money, or "they know the system" (WHAT ****ING SYSTEM?! lol). Don't just bring in high priced, big name UFAs either, cause that's not the answer. Give some of the guys in SA a shot this season and see what they've got. It can't be any worse, right? You say you want to get younger... well, they're the future. Now give them a chance. Not just Compher. See what Seimens and Grimaldi can do. Not just a one time call up to eat nachos, either. Give 'em ice time, Joe. PLEASE!

My responses in red.

As far as the UFAs, I think it really depends on what kind of deal they end up making for Duchene. I've always believed that Jost is in our lineup come October and I still believe that. Getting rid of half of your team and replacing it with different players could really make a huge difference.

For me, these last 21 games, now that the TDL is over and we are set to finish dead last, I want to see IF Bednar can motivate this team to a strong finish. If he can't and this team still looks dead in the water on most nights, I want him gone.

I don't think a .500 finish is asking too much but if he can't get that, even from these guys, then why should we believe he'd be able to get anything more from a different set of guys??

 

[tigervixxxen]

I can't even think of what the big prize from the Pens Sakic was after anyway.

A Beauch buyout simply isn't going to happen. I think we've established a respect the vets first and foremost pattern so they will be taken care of. I also think Comeau gets the expansion protection too. And of course Varly.

 

[dahrougem2]

Well atleast we dodged one bullet.

Pens board is beyond mad at Sakic. An apparant insider is saying that Pens offered exactly what Sakic wanted (Maatta + Jarry +1st (with maybe one of Guentzel/Sprong subbed in if we take Fleury instead of Jarry) and JR is beyond pissed at Sakic for negotiating in bad faith and not taking this amazing offer.


Taking that deal would have been way, way worse than doing nothing so atleast that is a plus...

Well, that supposed "insider" is in direct contradiction to what Bob McKenzie said on TSN yesterday, where he stated that there hasn't been a single team to meet Sakic's demand yet, and hence Duchene not being traded.

All of these reports, whether it's from this Penguins insider or from the Islanders or whatever, I believe are completely bogus. "Meeting demands" is a very, very broad statement.

If, let's say, John Tavares is on the table and the Islanders want a good young roster player + top prospect + 1st round pick + B-prospect for him, and I offer:

Zadorov + Compher + 1st + Beaudin

Well, *technically* I am meeting that demand, am I not? When in actuality, the offer the Islanders are expecting is:

Rantanen + Jost + 1st + Greer/Meloche

Or something along those lines. And that just isn't going to fly because it'd cripple us. So then we come out publicly and state "well, we met their demands and they said no. What more do you want from me?"

It's posturing. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm no fan of Sakic's after yesterday (granted, not all of it was in his control but he still failed), but the one thing I do appreciate is him not giving Duchene away for pennies. He needs to be more aggressive, but not stupid aggressive.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

I can't even think of what the big prize from the Pens Sakic was after anyway.

A Beauch buyout simply isn't going to happen. I think we've established a respect the vets first and foremost pattern so they will be taken care of. I also think Comeau gets the expansion protection too. And of course Varly.

And this is BS. By doing so, Sakic is not doing what's best for the team, so he's not respecting the rest of the players or the fans.

 

[DanglesFromDuchene]

Do you guys see any way that Bednar could become successful with us? Does he lose the locker room if he ever had it? Will new players coming in not respect him as a coach after a season like this? I'm not saying that there would be locker room problems necessarily but to be successful we need players to 100% buy into his system, is that still possible now or does he need to reestablish himself?

 

[Foppberg]

Well atleast we dodged one bullet.

Pens board is beyond mad at Sakic. An apparant insider is saying that Pens offered exactly what Sakic wanted (Maatta + Jarry +1st (with maybe one of Guentzel/Sprong subbed in if we take Fleury instead of Jarry) and JR is beyond pissed at Sakic for negotiating in bad faith and not taking this amazing offer.


Taking that deal would have been way, way worse than doing nothing so atleast that is a plus...

There's really nothing in that package that would have made me happy, or excited, at all.

 

[dahrougem2]

Do you guys see any way that Bednar could become successful with us? Does he lose the locker room if he ever had it? Will new players coming in not respect him as a coach after a season like this? I'm not saying that there would be locker room problems necessarily but to be successful we need players to 100% buy into his system, is that still possible now or does he need to reestablish himself?

I think he's long past losing the locker room tbh

 

[Pacman33]

I miss roy way too much. The interviews would be pure gold this year

 

[Balthazar]

I still can't get over the fact that we didn't get a single additional draft pick for 2017. Not one.

 

[Goulet17]

I see many Islander and Pittsburgh fans raking Sakic over the coals for not agreeing to deals that are offered to him.

It seems like many are missing the distinction between an agreement in principle versus proposals occurring during the normal course of negotiation. I have not seen any source that I consider credible report indicate that Sakic had an agreement in principle that he reneged on with either the NY Islanders or the Pittsburgh Penguins.

If Sakic merely received an offer that he did not accept but that the other organization felt was fair, who really cares. It is a normal part of negotiations. It seems like the distinction is lost on a number of those posters.

 

[henchman21]

Do you guys see any way that Bednar could become successful with us? Does he lose the locker room if he ever had it? Will new players coming in not respect him as a coach after a season like this? I'm not saying that there would be locker room problems necessarily but to be successful we need players to 100% buy into his system, is that still possible now or does he need to reestablish himself?

I think Bednar had the room for a bit during camp, but it went off the rails when some vets were treated as they were. Now I'm not one to think that players need to like their coach, sometimes it is galvanizing for them to hate their coach. If Bednar is going to be that guy though, he is going to have to scheme his ass off and be a great xs and os coach.

I see many Islander and Pittsburgh fans raking Sakic over the coals for not agreeing to deals that are offered to him.

It seems like many are missing the distinction between an agreement in principle versus proposals occurring during the normal course of negotiation. I have not seen any source that I consider credible report indicate that Sakic had an agreement in principle that he reneged on with either the NY Islanders or the Pittsburgh Penguins.

If Sakic merely received an offer that he did not accept but that the other organization felt was fair, who really cares. It is a normal part of negotiations. It seems like the distinction is lost on a number of those posters.

I can't comment on the Isles and Pitt deals, but Sakic is gaining a reputation for this behavior. A time or two isn't a big deal, but repeatedly will cause other GMs to just not deal with Sakic.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I think he's long past losing the locker room tbh

Meh.. Roy lost the locker room as well. I think the problem comes from the fat bloated contracts that guys like Colborne and Comeau have. There is no consequences to these guys for inconsistent effort, and their skill set isn't good enough to save their ***** in the moments the let off the gas.

What I do not understand is a guy like Mitchell who is likely playing for his NHL career.

Same applies to Soderberg in his ability to keep himself motivated enough to fight his way back into the top six.

With some of these players, I don't think it would matter who the coach was when it comes to consistency and effort level.

We'll probably see some positive results when the bottom half of the roster is younger with guys like Compher and Greer. Which is also why I like the Sven move, as Martinsen wasn't good enough to draw into the lineup regularly.

Also for the record I don't think FB or Tyutin have had issues with effort level, but both of them have issues with the speed of the game at this point, and it makes them both look like idiots at times.

 

[henchman21]

Meh.. Roy lost the locker room as well. I think the problem comes from the fat bloated contracts that guys like Colborne and Comeau have. There is no consequences to these guys for inconsistent effort, and their skill set isn't good enough to save their ***** in the moments the let off the gas.

What I do not understand is a guy like Mitchell who is likely playing for his NHL career.

Same applies to Soderberg in his ability to keep himself motivated enough to fight his way back into the top six.

With some of these players, I don't think it would matter who the coach was when it comes to consistency and effort level.

We'll probably see some positive results when the bottom half of the roster is younger with guys like Compher and Greer. Which is also why I like the Sven move, as Martinsen wasn't good enough to draw into the lineup regularly.

Also for the record I don't think FB or Tyutin have had issues with effort level, but both of them have issues with the speed of the game at this point, and it makes them both look like idiots at times.

Maybe of a couple players (normal), but not the room. After Roy quit, many players still had good things to say. The non committal were on the block, and if Roy had his way, would have been moved.

 

[dahrougem2]

Maybe of a couple players (normal), but not the room. After Roy quit, many players still had good things to say. The non committal were on the block, and if Roy had his way, would have been moved.

This is how I see things, too.

Bednar just doesn't seem very likeable and whatever it is he's doing with regard to scheming isn't working whatsoever.

What I find most intriguing is he seems more than willing to accommodate to vets with regard to ice time yet it's the vets who he seems to be mistreating the most (Soderberg/Colborne/Mitchell/etc).