Trade and Free Agent Discussion Thread - 2018/2019 Season v3

[SprDaVE]

Seriously, why does St. Louis have any interest in such a package? That's terrible for them, and not even in the ballpark. To get Pietrangelo, you are going to need to trade something you really don't want to.

Agreed, no chance it happens without Nylander going the other way.

Who did Tampa give up for McDonagh that they really didn't want to, and who did San Jose give up for Karlsson that they really didn't want to?

I agree with tmlfan98 here. Tampa Bay didn't have to give up Gourde or Point or whoever. Namestnikov was having a good season at the time but he was completely carried by Stamkos and Kucherov, and it was very obvious. He had very similar stats and he's a very similar player to Connor Brown. It will definitely take a Liljegren or Sandin however, or whoever is seen as a top prospect.

It's funny how teams can acquire Karlssons and McDonaghs of the league without having to give up a top line forward in the process, but we always do.

Sure, the Blues can keep Pietrangelo and I'm sure they'd be fine re-signing him to whatever he wants but there are plenty of teams that rebuild/retool and it starts with a big piece like that moving out.

 

[RLF]

I agree with tmlfan98 here. Tampa Bay didn't have to give up Gourde or Point or whoever. Namestnikov was having a good season at the time but he was completely carried by Stamkos and Kucherov, and it was very obvious. He had very similar stats and he's a very similar player to Connor Brown. It will definitely take a Liljegren or Sandin however, or whoever is seen as a top prospect.

It's funny how teams can acquire Karlssons and McDonaghs of the league without having to give up a top line forward in the process, but we always do.

Sure, the Blues can keep Pietrangelo and I'm sure they'd be fine re-signing him to whatever he wants but there are plenty of teams that rebuild/retool and it starts with a big piece like that moving out.

Let's take context into play. Karlsson completely different situation, they were desperately trying to move him before the season started.
Mcdonagh a closer comparisson but depends on if the Blues are rebuilding or not. The Rangers had decided to rebuild and still got Nam, a 2018 1st, two prospects (one was a first rounder and the other a 2nd) and a second round pick that could become another 1st. That's a lot and I would argue that Piet has more value than Mcd.

 

[SprDaVE]

Let's take context into play. Karlsson completely different situation, they were desperately trying to move him before the season started.
Mcdonagh a closer comparisson but depends on if the Blues are rebuilding or not. The Rangers had decided to rebuild and still got Nam, a 2018 1st, two prospects (one was a first rounder and the other a 2nd) and a second round pick that could become another 1st. That's a lot and I would argue that Piet has more value than Mcd.

Karlsson was out there for a long time, regardless of his situation, he is (or at least was) the best offensive defenseman in the league. His price is/was very high.

Tampa Bay gave up 1 roster player in Namestnikov, 1 great prospect in Howden and a very average defensive prospect in Hajek to go with a 1st round pick.

What we forget is that Tampa Bay also received JT Miller in this trade, who is arguably a better player than Namestnikov. 23/24 years old at the time and he had 40 points in 63 games for the Rangers (they were awful) before the trade and then Miller notched 18 points in 19 games in the regular season for the Lightning.

The Leafs can easily match this asset to asset and it would not have to include a top line forward like Nylander. I'm not sure Pietrangelo has more value, especially with his recent hand injury and also his current contract term. But even if he does, it wouldn't bump his value for us having to include Nylander or even Kapanen.

 

[ACC1224]

I agree with tmlfan98 here. Tampa Bay didn't have to give up Gourde or Point or whoever. Namestnikov was having a good season at the time but he was completely carried by Stamkos and Kucherov, and it was very obvious. He had very similar stats and he's a very similar player to Connor Brown. It will definitely take a Liljegren or Sandin however, or whoever is seen as a top prospect.

It's funny how teams can acquire Karlssons and McDonaghs of the league without having to give up a top line forward in the process, but we always do.

Sure, the Blues can keep Pietrangelo and I'm sure they'd be fine re-signing him to whatever he wants but there are plenty of teams that rebuild/retool and it starts with a big piece like that moving out.

Situations vary from Team to Team, nothing can be used as the standard.
Pietrangelo is better than McDonagh and Ottawa was never going to get full value for Karlsson.
Edmonton never got full value for Hall.

 

[tmlfan98]

Let's take context into play. Karlsson completely different situation, they were desperately trying to move him before the season started.
Mcdonagh a closer comparisson but depends on if the Blues are rebuilding or not. The Rangers had decided to rebuild and still got Nam, a 2018 1st, two prospects (one was a first rounder and the other a 2nd) and a second round pick that could become another 1st. That's a lot and I would argue that Piet has more value than Mcd.

Taking context into play, the Blues have sold top rentals the last 2 years in a row (Shattenkirk and Stastny) while still remaining competitive for a playoff spot. Just because the Blues aren't rebuilding doesn't mean they won't sell Pietrangelo.

 

[SprDaVE]

Situations vary from Team to Team, nothing can be used as the standard.
Pietrangelo is better than McDonagh and Ottawa was never going to get full value for Karlsson.
Edmonton never got full value for Hall.

Ok in what world do the Leafs have to give up a top line forward signed for 6 years to get a defenseman signed for 1 year and a half and close to 30 years old?

He's good but let's look at this objectively.

It always changes team to team but there isn't a single team that will give them a Nylander equivalent. Zero. None. Nada.

 

[justafan22]

Wonder if Zaitsev gets dealt this year before his NTC kicks in.



Stecher + Gagner for Zaitsev works out almost exactly well cap wise.

 

[SprDaVE]

Wonder if Zaitsev gets dealt this year before his NTC kicks in.

Stecher + Gagner for Zaitsev works out almost exactly well cap wise.

I'd be fine with this but I think Vancouver would have to retain on Gagner to make this happen. The Leafs can't have ~2M in dead cap space going into next season if the plan is to use him on the Marlies.

 

[RLF]

Karlsson was out there for a long time, regardless of his situation, he is (or at least was) the best offensive defenseman in the league. His price is/was very high.

Tampa Bay gave up 1 roster player in Namestnikov, 1 great prospect in Howden and a very average defensive prospect in Hajek to go with a 1st round pick.

What we forget is that Tampa Bay also received JT Miller in this trade, who is arguably a better player than Namestnikov. 23/24 years old at the time and he had 40 points in 63 games for the Rangers (they were awful) before the trade and then Miller notched 18 points in 19 games in the regular season for the Lightning.

The Leafs can easily match this asset to asset and it would not have to include a top line forward like Nylander. I'm not sure Pietrangelo has more value, especially with his recent hand injury and also his current contract term. But even if he does, it wouldn't bump his value for us having to include Nylander or even Kapanen.

Sens were cleaning house and other GM's knew it, so they didn't get his value. He was also coming off of a horrible season. Hajek at time of trade was a better than average prospect and prospects/picks/young players is what NYR were looking for. Like I said, it depends on the direction of the team trading the asset and what they want back. If they want young NHL players...you think Johnsson and Brown are getting it done? Doubt it. Plus, we are not going to be the only team interested in Piet.

 

[SprDaVE]

Sens were cleaning house and other GM's knew it, so they didn't get his value. He was also coming off of a horrible season. Hajek at time of trade was a better than average prospect and prospects/picks/young players is what NYR were looking for. Like I said, it depends on the direction of the team trading the asset and what they want back. If they want young NHL players...you think Johnsson and Brown are getting it done? Doubt it. Plus, we are not going to be the only team interested in Piet.

No I think Liljegren, Brown and a combination of picks should be enough if we look at precedence. We're not getting back a JT Miller either probably.

 

[RLF]

Taking context into play, the Blues have sold top rentals the last 2 years in a row (Shattenkirk and Stastny) while still remaining competitive for a playoff spot. Just because the Blues aren't rebuilding doesn't mean they won't sell Pietrangelo.

When did I say they wouldn't sell him? I didn't. I said it would take more than some of the offers on here to get him.

 

[Visnovsky]

I'd be fine with this but I think Vancouver would have to retain on Gagner to make this happen. The Leafs can't have ~2M in dead cap space going into next season if the plan is to use him on the Marlies.

If Chicago was looking into Gagner, we could just flip him to Chicago for future considerations, and voila, 2.175m cap space.

 

[SprDaVE]

If Chicago was looking into Gagner, we could just flip him to Chicago for future considerations, and voila, 2.175m cap space.

Then sign me up.

 

[RLF]

No I think Liljegren, Brown and a combination of picks should be enough if we look at precedence. We're not getting back a JT Miller either probably.

Which is more than some trades shown which is what I said we are not getting him for. I had a value of something like Dermott, Kapanen and a 1st(which will be late 1st). I figure STL will want some young NHL ready players. You have Liligren, Brown and "combination of picks" which depending on what those picks are could be comparable value if Blues are wanting all futures.

 

[ToneDog]

No reason why our team cannot be just as great. We are choosing to deploy players like Ennis, Gauthier and Lindholm on the 4th line. We have better players in the AHL that would better suit our team. Grundstrom, Moore, Marchment, Mueller and Greening would all do better then those players. Give us the size and grit needed, and forcheck.

If I were the Leafs I would demote Lindholm, bring up Greening and Grundstrom, move Ennis to press box.

4th line should be Brown-Greening-Grundstrom. Let them skate, use their size and bang.

The game is played on the ice not on paper so yeah we can beat them but we would need our best players to be our best players. Like those moves but that does not move the needle much.

 

[Menzinger]

Situations vary from Team to Team, nothing can be used as the standard.
Pietrangelo is better than McDonagh and Ottawa was never going to get full value for Karlsson.
Edmonton never got full value for Hall.

Personally I don’t see enough evidence to suggesting this situation is any different.

Not to mention looking at Pietrangelo‘s recent injury history should make anybody seriously second guess a trade for him.

 

[SprDaVE]

Which is more than some trades shown which is what I said we are not getting him for. I had a value of something like Dermott, Kapanen and a 1st(which will be late 1st). I figure STL will want some young NHL ready players. You have Liligren, Brown and "combination of picks" which depending on what those picks are could be comparable value if Blues are wanting all futures.

Dermott, Kapanen and a 1st is probably worst than anything I've seen to be perfectly honest. 2 NHL assets with plenty of potential and cost controlled (Kapanen is on pace for 30 goals!!!), on top of a 1st, for a soon to be 30 year old with no long-term contract. It's not a trade you make for almost any kind of player.

 

[Menzinger]

Dermott, Kapanen and a 1st is probably worst than anything I've seen to be perfectly honest. 2 NHL assets with plenty of potential and cost controlled (Kapanen is on pace for 30 goals!!!), on top of a 1st, for a soon to be 30 year old with no long-term contract. It's not a trade you may for almost any kind of player.

That package would be a crazy amount to give up that much for a soon to be UFA vet.

 

[RLF]

Dermott, Kapanen and a 1st is probably worst than anything I've seen to be perfectly honest. 2 NHL assets with plenty of potential and cost controlled (Kapanen is on pace for 30 goals!!!), on top of a 1st, for a soon to be 30 year old with no long-term contract. It's not a trade you make for almost any kind of player.

This is comparable to what Tampa gave up for Mcdonagh , which you said is somewhat the value even though Piet is the better D-man.

Kapanen close to Namestnikov. Namestnikov would even be more proven at the time. Has Kapanen not benefitted from playing with Matthews? Then you got Dermott a more proven prospect than Howden. The 1st is going to be a similar pick. No JT Miller and no conditional 2nd/1st and no very good prospect Hajek. How is it that different?

I also never said I would do it, said that is the kind of value it would take. It is why I put Piet as a long shot to acquire...the cost. Kapanen has never put up numbers like this before and Dermott is looking like a good top 4, but not proven there yet. There is no one proven being given up compared to getting a D that is still considered top 10 in the League and 1 year left on contract.

 

[RLF]

That package would be a crazy amount to give up that much for a soon to be UFA vet.

Well I doubt we get Piet for Liligren, Brown and a 1st(which will be late first). Maybe at next seasons(2020 deadline), but I doubt for two chances at a cup.

 

[Contenderorpretender]

Never know. May as well protect it.

Remember Ottawa and the Duchene trade? Crap happens.

A few points regarding my comment. First. I'm very confident we will make the playoffs. Two I don't think the blues would accept this offer and if they did, they would want it unprotected

 

[Animal]

If Chicago was looking into Gagner, we could just flip him to Chicago for future considerations, and voila, 2.175m cap space.

pretty sure the Chicago is open to Gagner because they're hoping for a trade involving Gagner for Manning, both players have two years left on their deals, Manning @ 2.25 per year.

If they viewed Gagner as an asset, Chicago would've just claimed him off waivers.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Wonder if Zaitsev gets dealt this year before his NTC kicks in.



Stecher + Gagner for Zaitsev works out almost exactly well cap wise.

Isn't a Leivo like trade for Borgmam though?

 

[Duke16]

Frederik Gauthier for Tim Heed is a small move that could have some upside for us I think.

 

[SprDaVE]

This is comparable to what Tampa gave up for Mcdonagh , which you said is somewhat the value even though Piet is the better D-man.

Kapanen close to Namestnikov. Namestnikov would even be more proven at the time. Has Kapanen not benefitted from playing with Matthews? Then you got Dermott a more proven prospect than Howden. The 1st is going to be a similar pick. No JT Miller and no conditional 2nd/1st and no very good prospect Hajek. How is it that different?

I also never said I would do it, said that is the kind of value it would take. It is why I put Piet as a long shot to acquire...the cost. Kapanen has never put up numbers like this before and Dermott is looking like a good top 4, but not proven there yet. There is no one proven being given up compared to getting a D that is still considered top 10 in the League and 1 year left on contract.

This is not at all comparable to what Tampa gave for McDonagh at all. Howden and Hajek weren't in the NHL first of all. I think Kapanen is worth so much more than Namestnikov but even if you think he's worth about the same, comparing Hajek or even Howden to Dermott is pretty bad.

And Tampa Bay got Miller in this, not just McDonagh.

If this is what the Blues want for Pietrangelo, they might as well just re-sign him because there's not a single team that would.