Speculation: Trade and Free Agency Talk XLIII

[Dr Jan Itor]

Where to start...

 

[TaLoN]

what is up with Hockey Twitter, & them being mad, angry that wild wouldn't trade kaprizov for eichel.

Also why in the world does hockey Twitter seem to think they know more , or can do a NHL GM's job

Been seeing crazy tweets since Sunday about how it's crazy wild won't trade kaprizov for eichel.

That's why I'm on this forum instead of reading and posting on twitter. More common sense.

 

[HotDish]

What is the consensus on Middelstadt? Russo's trade article made it sound like a 3rd wasn't enough. is a 2nd too pricey? or 3/mid tier prospect?

I'm not saying he is the next great center, but I would like to see what he could do a on team that isn't hot garbage.

 

[Bazeek]

What is the consensus on Middelstadt? Russo's trade article made it sound like a 3rd wasn't enough. is a 2nd too pricey? or 3/mid tier prospect?

I'm not saying he is the next great center, but I would like to see what he could do a on team that isn't hot garbage.

Like anything with Buffalo it's hard to peer through the smoke and make sense of things. There seemed to be a lot of talk from the coach that he was a winger... but now Krueger's gone, they seem to have been playing him at center, and he's had some promising production.

If he's already having a little success in Buffalo the train has probably left the station, because they need young, skilled players as badly as any team. And he's not a player I'd want to overpay for.

 

[57special]

I'd easily pay a second for Mittelstadt. The only problem is that he is playing his best while on the wing. I don't see Buffalo letting him go for a second only, though. He has been playing his best hockey recently. The time to get him was when he was down in the AHL. He still has the puck skills and vision. Seems to lack speed and strength, sort of like Granlund. Even though he is 6', 200 lbs., he seems to be weak, and his skating seems slower than I remember.

He certainly is the kind of prospect that I'd try to trade for, though. Skilled, offensively inclined, but relatively low cost due to his lack of recent accomplishment, and flaws.

 

[Bazeek]

I'd easily pay a second for Mittelstadt. The only problem is that he is playing his best while on the wing. I don't see Buffalo letting him go for a second only, though. He has been playing his best hockey recently. The time to get him was when he was down in the AHL. He still has the puck skills and vision. Seems to lack speed and strength, sort of like Granlund. Even though he is 6', 200 lbs., he seems to be weak, and his skating seems slower than I remember.

He certainly is the kind of prospect that I'd try to trade for, though. Skilled, offensively inclined, but relatively low cost due to his lack of recent accomplishment, and flaws.

Borgstrom's the other guy in this bucket, and his relationship with Florida seems a little more strained than Mittelstadt's with Buffalo. He hasn't exactly been blowing the doors off the AHL/Liiga, but I haven't actually watched him play a game since he was in college either.

 

[MNRube]

Id be ok with Middlestadt or Borgstrom if the cost is decent.

Schmaltz is a great fit in a lot of ways as a RHC who can really skate. But he is atrocious at FOs and plays for a talent starved team that has no reason to move him.

Girioux would be a very interesting addition if we can get him at the right price. He is dominant on FOs, RH and his value has probably never been lower. He is a UFA after next year. Price is very hard to gauge on him.

Nolan Patrick is another one you have to consider. I think he ends up becoming a Charlie Coyle type player but there is still some upside there and maybe he finds another gear. Another guy whose trade value is very difficult to determine.

 

[MNRube]

. Khovanov will also likely be in Iowa, ready for a call up.

I dont know about this one. He needs to prove a lot before we can consider him ready for NHL time.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

Buffalo is such a mess that I don't see them moving a player like Middlestadt for just another draft pick roll of the dice. They almost have to just ride or die and see if any of these young players can progress. I would happily pay a 3rd for him but I don't see why Buffalo would.

 

[Puhis]

Borgstrom's the other guy in this bucket, and his relationship with Florida seems a little more strained than Mittelstadt's with Buffalo. He hasn't exactly been blowing the doors off the AHL/Liiga, but I haven't actually watched him play a game since he was in college either.

He was injured and suffered from lack of confidence, according to HIFK fans on a Finnish discussion board. I haven't watched him play either, but the report seems to be that Henrik (or "Niki", as they call him) is good/great on the faceoff circle and can score goals, but occasionally overconfident and loses the puck too much. Granted, he's also apparently a good skater and can also take away possession, but the reports seem to indicate that there's no "NHL-threat" that would rip Borgström from HIFK.

He's also received comparisons to teammate Anton Lundell in his ability to be effective when out of possession, which I can only assume is a good thing. Also, was mentioned to be "clearly HIFK's best player while Lundell is gone". Then again, as a 23-year old former 1st round pick, he damn well should be, too.

To quote user "BOL" on Jatkoaika (my translation, posted 22nd of February):

Niki is a peculiar fellow. At times it looks like he's completely lost and the puck ends up wherever, but when you follow just [Borgström's] efforts in the rink and especially without possession, there haven't really been a lot of mistakes lately. And I mean after he's grasped the Liiga and HIFK systems. [...] His mistakes seem easy and often spectacular, not to mention at completely wrong time and wrong place, but approx. 97% of the time he plays just as he should.

Lately, he's received more praise both due to his goalscoring and interviews (hi, Russo). Some said it's also finally starting to look like he's grown into that 6'3" frame, and it's starting to withstand the rigors of professional hockey.

To sum it up: Great hands, big fellow, hustles for pucks without possession, yet can easily try too much and turn pucks over. Definitely a goalscoring threat from the middle, and 53.3% on the dot this season at Liiga. It's also speculated that he could use a playmaking winger to maximize his potential.

I'd say it's a worthy trade if we can buy low. See what the kid's got, and what he can do in our system. Give him a one-year contract and see what's what. Low risk, moderate reward.

 

[57special]

I dont know about this one. He needs to prove a lot before we can consider him ready for NHL time.

He can't even play in the KHL, so don't see him playing in the NHL anytime soon. The attrition rate among prospects as they try to climb the ladder to the NHL is usually underestimated, and certainly hard to figure. Sokolov looked to have potential as a NHL scorer a la Hoffman coming out of the OHL, Soucy a 4 year college guy and run of the mill minor leaguer. Now one looks like an ECHL'er, the other is a decent NHL Dman who would be a top 4 guy on many teams, and who has scored more in the NHL than in the AHL.

 

[57special]

He was injured and suffered from lack of confidence, according to HIFK fans on a Finnish discussion board. I haven't watched him play either, but the report seems to be that Henrik (or "Niki", as they call him) is good/great on the faceoff circle and can score goals, but occasionally overconfident and loses the puck too much. Granted, he's also apparently a good skater and can also take away possession, but the reports seem to indicate that there's no "NHL-threat" that would rip Borgström from HIFK.

He's also received comparisons to teammate Anton Lundell in his ability to be effective when out of possession, which I can only assume is a good thing. Also, was mentioned to be "clearly HIFK's best player while Lundell is gone". Then again, as a 23-year old former 1st round pick, he damn well should be, too.

To quote user "BOL" on Jatkoaika (my translation, posted 22nd of February):



Lately, he's received more praise both due to his goalscoring and interviews (hi, Russo). Some said it's also finally starting to look like he's grown into that 6'3" frame, and it's starting to withstand the rigors of professional hockey.

To sum it up: Great hands, big fellow, hustles for pucks without possession, yet can easily try too much and turn pucks over. Definitely a goalscoring threat from the middle, and 53.3% on the dot this season at Liiga. It's also speculated that he could use a playmaking winger to maximize his potential.

I'd say it's a worthy trade if we can buy low. See what the kid's got, and what he can do in our system. Give him a one-year contract and see what's what. Low risk, moderate reward.

Is Borgstrom able to handle physical play? My impression of Lundell was that he could quite easily, sort of like Koivu. Borgstrom seemed easy to puck around, for all that he has size, sort of like Bjugstad. Some guys just fold under the physicality of the NHL- Mittelstadt is one of them who has had problems with it.

 

[TwiztedHeat]

Girioux would be a very interesting addition if we can get him at the right price. He is dominant on FOs, RH and his value has probably never been lower. He is a UFA after next year. Price is very hard to gauge on him.

Man I'd kill to get Giroux, even at his age, but same thing I just don't know what his trade value is. Rask would have to go back, but what we gave on top of that I don't have a clue.

 

[Puhis]

Is Borgstrom able to handle physical play? My impression of Lundell was that he could quite easily, sort of like Koivu. Borgstrom seemed easy to puck around, for all that he has size, sort of like Bjugstad. Some guys just fold under the physicality of the NHL- Mittelstadt is one of them who has had problems with it.

Judging by "his body is able to finally handle the requirements of professional hockey" and HIFK historically priding themselves on their physical side, I'd say he's at least trending in the right direction. With that said, I'd have to really see for myself. Sadly, Liiga isn't included in my chosen subscription service (opted for Viaplay due to NHL and some other things over C More), and as such I can't really confirm. If we had some of those HIFK fans from yesteryear here, they could provide more insight.

 

[KaprizovEntitlelist]

What is the consensus on Middelstadt? Russo's trade article made it sound like a 3rd wasn't enough. is a 2nd too pricey? or 3/mid tier prospect?

I'm not saying he is the next great center, but I would like to see what he could do a on team that isn't hot garbage.

I want middlestat badly.

Also can people explain to me why computer GM'S on Twitter act like they know more than Guerin, or for them not watching kaprizov to say/ be angry about NHL gm not trading kaprizov for eichel?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I want middlestat badly.

Also can people explain to me why computer GM'S on Twitter act like they know more than Guerin, or for them not watching kaprizov to say/ be angry about NHL gm not trading kaprizov for eichel?

I don’t know, freedom of opinion maybe?

 

[ctmagic]

I'd easily pay a second for Mittelstadt. The only problem is that he is playing his best while on the wing.

he’s been centering line one and pp2 on his recent surge. Agree buff probably keeps him at this point to see if he continues to develop down the stretch.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

I want middlestat badly.

Also can people explain to me why computer GM'S on Twitter act like they know more than Guerin, or for them not watching kaprizov to say/ be angry about NHL gm not trading kaprizov for eichel?

Trading Kap for eichel would fill a huge need that has been needed for two decades and dynamic winger is not exactly a thing we lack nearly as bad so that I’d where it would come from anger wise. I for one would be hesitant to do that trade but I wouldn’t exactly say no to it.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Middelstadt is the very definition of buying high and being disappointed in the results. His numbers in the AHL aren't that great, and he's below a .5 point per game this season. He's also struggling pretty bad at FOs as his % is 42.7%. Wild need someone better on the dot than Ryan Hartman.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Hall + Middlestadt for Dumba? Don’t really see the need for Hall personally but I don’t think we see much more in value for Dumba around the league. If Guerin wants to splash, this would do it and at least get us some future value for Dumba.

 

[Bazeek]

Hall + Middlestadt for Dumba? Don’t really see the need for Hall personally but I don’t think we see much more in value for Dumba around the league. If Guerin wants to splash, this would do it and at least get us some future value for Dumba.

Buffalo isn't going to have much interest in Dumba, and we shouldn't have any interest in Hall.

If Dumba goes anywhere (other than Seattle) it'll probably be Winnipeg, Florida, Carolina or one of the other teams that seem to be sniffing around RD.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

I've been spending some time looking at our options for a center acquisition, trying to account for things like risk, cost, production, availability, etc. and the guy I keep coming back to is Monahan. If he's as available as flames fans seem to think he is/will be, he's my plan A. I'm not an expert on his game, but from reading the flames board, it seems that he's a good finisher with underrated playmaking. He's been average defensively, but this year his numbers, as are his whole teams', are pretty poor defensively. Grazing through his stats, it seems he's not exactly a catalyst offensively, but if he has someone else on his line driving the offense he can more than keep up. Here's a breakdown of his points along with Guadreau's, whom he's been stapled to:

2016-2017: Gaudreau-61; Monahan-58
2017-2018: Gaudreau-84; Monahan-64
2018-2019: Gaudreau-99; Monahan-82

**Guadreau declines**

2019-2020: Gaudreau-58; Monahan 48 (shortend season)
2020-2021: Gaudreau-55; Monahan-49 (pacing)

Those numbers relate pretty well to producing when given good line mates. If we give him Kaprizov who can give 70-80 points, he might be able to get back to being a 60-70 point guy. He's 26 with 5 27+ goal seasons and he and 4 60+ point seasons. I realize there will be people who are going to look at the numbers he's been putting up lately and be deterred, but you have to balance all the information. It's similar to Trocheck in that you're betting on him being able to get back to the level he was previously at with a change of scenery. The risk isn't terrible, either. his deal is up after 22/23 so we'd have two seasons to evaluate where/if he fits in longterm. If you can get him for something around Dumba it's a win for me. If you're following St. Louis' blueprint of building off an elite defense and an electrifying Russian winger, Monahan slots in longterm in a similar fashion to Brayden Schenn.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I've been spending some time looking at our options for a center acquisition, trying to account for things like risk, cost, production, availability, etc. and the guy I keep coming back to is Monahan. If he's as available as flames fans seem to think he is/will be, he's my plan A. I'm not an expert on his game, but from reading the flames board, it seems that he's a good finisher with underrated playmaking. He's been average defensively, but this year his numbers, as are his whole teams', are pretty poor defensively. Grazing through his stats, it seems he's not exactly a catalyst offensively, but if he has someone else on his line driving the offense he can more than keep up. Here's a breakdown of his points along with Guadreau's, whom he's been stapled to:

2016-2017: Gaudreau-61; Monahan-58
2017-2018: Gaudreau-84; Monahan-64
2018-2019: Gaudreau-99; Monahan-82

**Guadreau declines**

2019-2020: Gaudreau-58; Monahan 48 (shortend season)
2020-2021: Gaudreau-55; Monahan-49 (pacing)

Those numbers relate pretty well to producing when given good line mates. If we give him Kaprizov who can give 70-80 points, he might be able to get back to being a 60-70 point guy. He's 26 with 5 27+ goal seasons and he and 4 60+ point seasons. I realize there will be people who are going to look at the numbers he's been putting up lately and be deterred, but you have to balance all the information. It's similar to Trocheck in that you're betting on him being able to get back to the level he was previously at with a change of scenery. The risk isn't terrible, either. his deal is up after 22/23 so we'd have two seasons to evaluate where/if he fits in longterm. If you can get him for something around Dumba it's a win for me. If you're following St. Louis' blueprint of building off an elite defense and an electrifying Russian winger, Monahan slots in longterm in a similar fashion to Brayden Schenn.

He’d probably be my Plan C, but there’s definitely more smoke around him than either of my Plan A or B, so he may be it by default.

 

[Bazeek]

I've been spending some time looking at our options for a center acquisition, trying to account for things like risk, cost, production, availability, etc. and the guy I keep coming back to is Monahan. If he's as available as flames fans seem to think he is/will be, he's my plan A. I'm not an expert on his game, but from reading the flames board, it seems that he's a good finisher with underrated playmaking. He's been average defensively, but this year his numbers, as are his whole teams', are pretty poor defensively. Grazing through his stats, it seems he's not exactly a catalyst offensively, but if he has someone else on his line driving the offense he can more than keep up. Here's a breakdown of his points along with Guadreau's, whom he's been stapled to:

2016-2017: Gaudreau-61; Monahan-58
2017-2018: Gaudreau-84; Monahan-64
2018-2019: Gaudreau-99; Monahan-82

**Guadreau declines**

2019-2020: Gaudreau-58; Monahan 48 (shortend season)
2020-2021: Gaudreau-55; Monahan-49 (pacing)

Those numbers relate pretty well to producing when given good line mates. If we give him Kaprizov who can give 70-80 points, he might be able to get back to being a 60-70 point guy. He's 26 with 5 27+ goal seasons and he and 4 60+ point seasons. I realize there will be people who are going to look at the numbers he's been putting up lately and be deterred, but you have to balance all the information. It's similar to Trocheck in that you're betting on him being able to get back to the level he was previously at with a change of scenery. The risk isn't terrible, either. his deal is up after 22/23 so we'd have two seasons to evaluate where/if he fits in longterm. If you can get him for something around Dumba it's a win for me. If you're following St. Louis' blueprint of building off an elite defense and an electrifying Russian winger, Monahan slots in longterm in a similar fashion to Brayden Schenn.

Monahan would be high on my list as well. Lucky for us fans the adults in charge apparently know better:

I'm ****in' psyched to go into next year with Rask and Ek as our top two centers again. I'll get about 205 hours of my life back.

 

[57special]

I've been spending some time looking at our options for a center acquisition, trying to account for things like risk, cost, production, availability, etc. and the guy I keep coming back to is Monahan. If he's as available as flames fans seem to think he is/will be, he's my plan A. I'm not an expert on his game, but from reading the flames board, it seems that he's a good finisher with underrated playmaking. He's been average defensively, but this year his numbers, as are his whole teams', are pretty poor defensively. Grazing through his stats, it seems he's not exactly a catalyst offensively, but if he has someone else on his line driving the offense he can more than keep up. Here's a breakdown of his points along with Guadreau's, whom he's been stapled to:

2016-2017: Gaudreau-61; Monahan-58
2017-2018: Gaudreau-84; Monahan-64
2018-2019: Gaudreau-99; Monahan-82

**Guadreau declines**

2019-2020: Gaudreau-58; Monahan 48 (shortend season)
2020-2021: Gaudreau-55; Monahan-49 (pacing)

Those numbers relate pretty well to producing when given good line mates. If we give him Kaprizov who can give 70-80 points, he might be able to get back to being a 60-70 point guy. He's 26 with 5 27+ goal seasons and he and 4 60+ point seasons. I realize there will be people who are going to look at the numbers he's been putting up lately and be deterred, but you have to balance all the information. It's similar to Trocheck in that you're betting on him being able to get back to the level he was previously at with a change of scenery. The risk isn't terrible, either. his deal is up after 22/23 so we'd have two seasons to evaluate where/if he fits in longterm. If you can get him for something around Dumba it's a win for me. If you're following St. Louis' blueprint of building off an elite defense and an electrifying Russian winger, Monahan slots in longterm in a similar fashion to Brayden Schenn.

I am guessing that Trekiving values Monahan more than CAL's disappointed fan base. I think they are comparing Monahan to the other great C's in Canada, and find him wanting. I'd be good with a guy who can score, has a decent contract and size, and can win a FO. I don't care that he isn't a transformative player.