Speculation: Trade and Free Agency Talk XLIII

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Bazeek

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No, the discussion was urgency and how some people think Guerin should have manufactured a good trade out of nothing by now. It doesn't work that way and it's naive to think otherwise. All he can do is try to find something and make the deal if it's good.

Again, if top 6 centers were easy to find and acquire, we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. I am all for getting a center, and I've been okay with several names thrown around over Guerin's tenure.

But the sense of urgency some of you think exists isn't real, and when you're talking about a deal of this magnitude, it shouldn't.
At this point any competent GM needs to do (or have already done) something to prevent one of the following:
  1. Losing Dumba to Seattle for nothing.
  2. Going into next season without adding a top-6 center.
Under the circumstances I can swallow one of those things happening and chalk it up to factors outside of Guerin's control, but there is absolutely no coherent way to justify allowing both of them. That's where the urgency comes from. And if he truly has no acceptable options to address one of those I find it hard to blame anyone but him, because both problems were there the day he was hired.
 

TwiztedHeat

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It makes no ****ing sense to be in on PLD and not on Monahan if your only issue with Monahan is his work ethic. PLD quit on CLB too.
 

Dr Jan Itor

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No, the discussion was urgency and how some people think Guerin should have manufactured a good trade out of nothing by now. It doesn't work that way and it's naive to think otherwise. All he can do is try to find something and make the deal if it's good.

Again, if top 6 centers were easy to find and acquire, we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. I am all for getting a center, and I've been okay with several names thrown around over Guerin's tenure.

But the sense of urgency some of you think exists isn't real, and when you're talking about a deal of this magnitude, it shouldn't.

They’re actually pretty easy to acquire. You just have to be able recognize them, and stomach a little bit of risk.
 

57special

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Wouldn't WPG welcome Dumba with open arms? We'd have to take a cap dump or two back(hopefully expiring), but now that they have PLD and Scheifele, they can afford to let go of Perfetti, I would think? Not saying he would be "the answer" at C, but between he and Rossi I'd feel better about our future there. They are exactly the sort of skilled offensive C types that JEE is made to support.
 

AKL

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They’re actually pretty easy to acquire. You just have to be able recognize them, and stomach a little bit of risk.

You're talking out of your ass but alright. If that's what you need to believe.
 

AKL

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Dr Jan Itor

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Making other people do the work to prove your point?

If you’ve been somewhat paying attention to the NHL, you can probably do 10-12 off the top of your head pretty easily, but I can get you a list in a bit.
 
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AKL

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If you’ve been somewhat paying attention to the NHL, you can probably do 10-12 off the top of your head pretty easily, but I can get you a list in a bit.

You're the one trying to make the point that they're easy to acquire, so the least you can do is show me the list of top 6 centers that:

1) Have been traded in the time Guerin has been here
2) Returned value that we could have stomached losing OR pieces that we even had equivalents of to give up
3) Were traded by a team that would have liked our offer (in accordance with #2) the best

Because I think we can all probably agree that it's not a failure on Guerin's part that he was in on PLD, but we just didn't have a Patrik Laine to send back to Columbus, so there's probably no point in discussing that one.
 

2Pair

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Monahan is not really Guerin's type of guy. He disappears. Gets lots of his production from PP. Defensively suspect. Low energy. On a contender, he would be the offensive 2C that should have an elite 1C in front of him and a workhorse shut-down center behind him.

However, Wild need help on their 1st PP at center and in the faceoff dot. Monahan would be an upgrade over Rask for sure. I think there is a role for him between JEE and Rossi moving forward. I do not think he will cost too much. But I am not Guerin.
What/who would be a "Guerin type" player.
 

AKL

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What/who would be a "Guerin type" player.

I think it's pretty obvious at this point that one of the most important character traits to Guerin is a strong work ethic, someone who shows up every day ready to give 100%, someone who makes hockey their top priority.

When his contract extensions include guys like Spurgeon and Foligno, his trade acquisitions are guys he himself describes as "hungry", his top draft pick is a guy who was pretty well known as a guy with one of the strongest work ethics in the entire class, and considering his conversation with Greenway, it's easy to pick out a pattern.
 

Dr Jan Itor

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You're the one trying to make the point that they're easy to acquire, so the least you can do is show me the list of top 6 centers that:

1) Have been traded in the time Guerin has been here
2) Returned value that we could have stomached losing OR pieces that we even had equivalents of to give up
3) Were traded by a team that would have liked our offer (in accordance with #2) the best

Because I think we can all probably agree that it's not a failure on Guerin's part that he was in on PLD, but we just didn't have a Patrik Laine to send back to Columbus, so there's probably no point in discussing that one.

Right now I’m just pushing back on the general idea that top 6 centers are super hard to trade for. Not really Guerin specific, but you can add Trocheck to his list.
 

P10p

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And all of that's fine, as is moving Staal to address the "country club" atmosphere even when we didn't really have a replacement for him. But I'm tired of the Goldilocks routine. Guerin needs to pick a ****ing bowl of porridge at some point and his grace period is pretty much over.


I'm sure plan A is still to move him before the draft and I don't think there will be zero options, but I get the sinking feeling that the offers will again not be "good enough."

"We didn't want to risk losing Dumba and Soucy in one summer."
"This team's strength is it's blueline and it was important to keep that strong."
"Opening up $6 million in cap space is an enormous benefit."
"We've got some good center options internally."

They've already started floating this stuff.

Yeah see, that's not how this works.

You're not the one making the calls, nor are you entitled to any information regarding what Guerin is planning.
 

Bazeek

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Yeah see, that's not how this works.

You're not the one making the calls, nor are you entitled to any information regarding what Guerin is planning.
I'm not asking for information, I'm asking for actions. Specifically I'm asking for actions that indicate a coherent plan and set of priorities for this team. They don't need to happen before Monday, but something absolutely needs to happen before next season and there are really only a few windows where significant movement occurs.

- The trade deadline
- Before the draft
- Between the draft and free-agency

Like I said above, I can get on board with either competing immediately (by adding a center) or competing later (by moving Dumba) or some combination of the two. I have yet to hear an argument for "neither" being an acceptable option.
 

Dr Jan Itor

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It's not like we're asking Guerin to do anything outside of what he should already be wanting to do, for his own job security. But if he needs something to hit him over the head in regards to fixing the team's biggest weakness, we're probably going to be in for a long (however many) years his tenure lasts.
 

Minnewildsota

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It's not like we're asking Guerin to do anything outside of what he should already be wanting to do, for his own job security. But if he needs something to hit him over the head in regards to fixing the team's biggest weakness, we're probably going to be in for a long (however many) years his tenure lasts.
This discussion stemmed for a user saying that if Guerin makes no moves to acquire a center before next year, he’sa failure of a GM. I disagree. He doesn’t need to force anything.

If the right deal comes along, absolutely make it but don’t make a bad deal just to make a deal.
 

AKL

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It's not like we're asking Guerin to do anything outside of what he should already be wanting to do, for his own job security. But if he needs something to hit him over the head in regards to fixing the team's biggest weakness, we're probably going to be in for a long (however many) years his tenure lasts.

That also depends on what his sales pitch to Leipold was when he was hired. He's said several times his plan is a long term approach, so as much as everyone would like him to find a center two years ago, if one doesn't fit his long term plan, it's probably not going to happen.

And I still believe that part of his plan (or at least his hopes) was to have Rossi playing top 6 center by now, which couldn't happen due to circumstances out of his control, but would have possibly drastically changed the landscape of this team.
 

AKL

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Right now I’m just pushing back on the general idea that top 6 centers are super hard to trade for. Not really Guerin specific, but you can add Trocheck to his list.

You're not showing that top 6 centers are easy to acquire if all you're doing is listing a few guys that have been traded. You'd be completely disregarding most of what goes into making a trade and ignoring how many teams weren't able to land the guy.
 

Prior

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As soon as you realize that Monahan is a wing that cannot move very well, does not control the play, and will soon be expensive it gets to be pretty easy why they are not interested.

I am, however, in the camp that if this front office goes into next year with nothing more than the experiment they did at the center position this year it is a massive failure.

Trocheck was a wiff. They should have been more serious about PLD and roster players like Fiala to send the other way but ultimately you can see why Columbus took the deal they did. Even if it has landed with a thud. The fact that they cannot unearth any option across the league to upgrade what they currently have this year is an absolute indictment on their competency as well in a year where they could make some noise if they cared to.
 

fgobuzz

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Ever since Ekblad went down in FLA, I've been hoping to hear some rumors around Dumba for Lundell with Tippett or Borgstrom. Add prospects/picks if needed. May not help next season but I'd like the look for the future....
 
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AKL

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As soon as you realize that Monahan is a wing that cannot move very well, does not control the play, and will soon be expensive it gets to be pretty easy why they are not interested.

I am, however, in the camp that if this front office goes into next year with nothing more than the experiment they did at the center position this year it is a massive failure.

Trocheck was a wiff. They should have been more serious about PLD and roster players like Fiala to send the other way but ultimately you can see why Columbus took the deal they did. Even if it has landed with a thud. The fact that they cannot unearth any option across the league to upgrade what they currently have this year is an absolute indictment on their competency as well in a year where they could make some noise if they cared to.

Do you know what he offered for PLD or that Fiala wasn't included? I still don't think you can label the PLD situation as a failure in any way, the only way we could have been competitive with Laine and Roslovic is by including Kaprizov, and no one on this board makes that move.

I agree with you about Monahan though.
 

57special

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Ever since Ekblad went down in FLA, I've been hoping to hear some rumors around Dumba for Lundell with Tippett or Borgstrom. Add prospects/picks if needed. May not help next season but I'd like the look for the future....
Panthers have Ekblad, Stralman, Nutivaara, Gudas and Weegar who are RHD. All are signed for at least one more year after this. I don't see the need for FLA.
 

grN1g

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Stralman is dead

Gudas is a bottom depth paring dman

Nutivaara is a 7th round pick has been a disappointment but is also a LHD

Weager is a 7th? Round pick? Showing some development.
 

fgobuzz

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I was thinking for FLA's run in the playoffs this season. Stralman was scratched and then waived just before Ekblad's injury. They need someone for their 1st pairing for the playoffs this season.
 
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