Tomas Tatar

[InjuredChoker]

tatar had 5th most ES ice time among wings forwards. was sheltered, but got destroyed. tatar actually had more ES ice time than cleary. cleary had more total because of pk. cleary isn't battling for the same pp spot as tatar is anyway.

 

[Johnz96*]

tatar had 5th most ES ice time among wings forwards. was sheltered, but got destroyed. tatar actually had more ES ice time than cleary. cleary had more total because of pk. cleary isn't battling for the same pp spot as tatar is anyway.

I don't know what you are talking about. In the last Red Wings' game Cleary had more ES time than Tatar and he has more ES time than Tatar on the season.
Cleary shouldn't even be on the Wings. The Wings have better alternatives in GR

 

[Vladdy84]

I don't know what you are talking about. In the last Red Wings' game Cleary had more ES time than Tatar and he has more ES time than Tatar on the season.
Cleary shouldn't even be on the Wings. The Wings have better alternatives in GR

Have about 5 or 6 better alternatives...

 

[InjuredChoker]

I don't know what you are talking about.
In the last Red Wings' game Cleary had more ES time than Tatar.

extraskater might be doing tricks again but they have tatar having more than cleary.

tatar was 6th though, not 5th.

but guess they count only 5 on 5 time there, not 4 on 4 and EN situations.

the rest was true anyway one cuts it.

Cleary shouldn't even be on the Wings. The Wings have better alternatives in GR

that's more or less GM's job.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

You only think that because Jiri was 'hudlered' by Babcock during his entire stint in Detroit.
Hopefully Tats develops to be as good.

You want to prove that Hurler was mistreated in terms of ice time? He had a decent amount of ES and PP time his last couple years.

 

[Johnz96*]

extraskater might be doing tricks again but they have tatar having more than cleary.

tatar was 6th though, not 5th.

but guess they count only 5 on 5 time there, not 4 on 4 and EN situations.

the rest was true anyway one cuts it.



that's more or less GM's job.

Cleary 12:19 ES TOI
Tatar 10:48 ES TOI
http://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/en/boxscore?id=2013020683

I am sure the Babcock has significant influence on the lineup.

 

[Vladdy84]

Cleary 12:19 ES TOI
Tatar 10:48 ES TOI
http://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/en/boxscore?id=2013020683

I am sure the Babcock has significant influence on the lineup.

It's well established that Babcock is the primary reason Cleary was brought back at the last minute. Kenny got played like a fool by HSJ and Babs.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Cleary 12:19 ES TOI
Tatar 10:48 ES TOI
http://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/en/boxscore?id=2013020683

a lot of that might have been when wings were defending the lead at dying seconds. i'd trust cleary more on those occasions.

not that i'd want specifically cleary there, on the pp or even on the roster.

almost all contending teams do similar treatment with rookies. or even worse.

I am sure the Babcock has significant influence on the lineup.

i believe so too but the final call is on GM. i doubt this roster has the players babcock would like and has wanted over the years.

i recall babcock wanting cleary babcock but i don't see a reason why he wouldn't accept cleary type of player; which wings don't really have too many.

that's not on babs, that's on holland.

 

[Frk It]

i recall babcock wanting cleary babcock but i don't see a reason why he wouldn't accept cleary type of player; which wings don't really have too many.
.

A reason not to take Cleary back?

Because it would put us in a terrible spot in terms of the salary cap, the roster limit, and would be the nail in the coffin preventing Nyquist from being on the team.

I could see a few reasons.....

 

[Frk It]

a lot of that might have been when wings were defending the lead at dying seconds. .

This excuse gets thrown out here often. But lately it doesn't matter if we are protecting a lead, or trying to come back from behind. Either way Cleary is playing more minutes than Tatar.

 

[InjuredChoker]

A reason not to take Cleary back?

Because it would put us in a terrible spot in terms of the salary cap, the roster limit, and would be the nail in the coffin preventing Nyquist from being on the team.

I could see a few reasons.....

maybe my typo made it hard to understand but he wanted cleary type of player and didn't have one; i assume babcock likes to have players like that based on how he uses them. wings don't have many of those players. it's not babcock's fault that holland couldn't move the garbage. or that he couldn't get better grinder than cleary and fit nyquist under the cap etc.

This excuse gets thrown out here often. But lately it doesn't matter if we are protecting a lead, or trying to come back from behind. Either way Cleary is playing more minutes than Tatar.

what excuse? who am i excusing? babcock? i have trashed him quite a lot here and will do so if i see he deserves it. i've said quite many times that his usage of cleary has hurt this team. he cut down his minutes a lot while back, though cleary has played more since winter classic he also has played better.

cleary has played better lately and before this stretch of goals in 3 consecutive games tatar had 2 points in 12 games or something.

cleary has played more minutes than tatar in last 4 games but tatar has gotten more pp toi/game and more total toi/game this season per nhl.com. and the last two games, per extraskater, tatar has had more time on ice at evens.

it's not how i'd like to see those players used but these team has lot bigger issues.

 

[Frk It]

maybe my typo made it hard to understand but he wanted cleary type of player and didn't have one; i assume babcock likes to have players like that based on how he uses them. wings don't have many of those players. it's not babcock's fault that holland couldn't move the garbage. or that he couldn't get better grinder than cleary and fit nyquist under the cap etc.

I think I misunderstood you a bit here. I agree that I think there is a disconnect of Babcock's wants and needs vs Hollands wants and needs for the team/roster.

what excuse? who am i excusing? babcock? i have trashed him quite a lot here and will do so if i see he deserves it. i've said quite many times that his usage of cleary has hurt this team. he cut down his minutes a lot while back, though cleary has played more since winter classic he also has played better.

cleary has played better lately and before this stretch of goals in 3 consecutive games tatar had 2 points in 12 games or something.

cleary has played more minutes than tatar in last 4 games but tatar has gotten more pp toi/game and more total toi/game this season per nhl.com. and the last two games, per extraskater, tatar has had more time on ice at evens.

it's not how i'd like to see those players used but these team has lot bigger issues.

Was not trying to call you out specifically, I've just seen the "Cleary plays so much to defend the lead" argument thrown out so much here lately, and I just happened to pick your post to quote it on. He has played more than Tatar even in games we are trying to come back from too, that's all I was saying.

But I agree with the notion that we have bigger issues, and that you don't want to see Cleary out there a ton. I think that's 95% of us.

 

[14ari13]

Tatar still makes a lot of mistakes (he is a rookie), but he's already more of a "game changer" than Hudler ever was. Tats can make plays happen all on his own with his speed, energy and will. If Tatar keeps this up, he'll get his ice-time...he better.

Tatar might be the quickest player on the team. How about the league? I do not follow other teams much.

 

[Claypool]

I think in a few years when Tatar has experience and is able to round out his game he can be a very effective 25 goals, 60 point winger.

 

[FlashyG]

Tatar might be the quickest player on the team. How about the league? I do not follow other teams much.

I don't think Tatar is slow, but I don't think he's in the discussion for quickest on the team. That would go hands down to Helm and I think Nyquist is also quicker than him.
I don't think he's anywhere near the fastest skaters in the league though.

Nyquist to me is a much faster skater, but doesn't seem to hold onto the puck as well as Tatar, who to me is a lot like Datsyuk in that he doesn't need elite level speed to give defenders trouble.

He protects the puck very well and is very shifty with the puck so its difficult to take it off him.

Quick players like Helm, Nyquist and Draper before them get a lot of breakaways and to me that isn't really Tatar's game.

 

[Johnz96*]

I think in a few years when Tatar has experience and is able to round out his game he can be a very effective 25 goals, 60 point winger.

Given the opportunity, he could be that now.

 

[14ari13]

I don't think Tatar is slow, but I don't think he's in the discussion for quickest on the team. That would go hands down to Helm and I think Nyquist is also quicker than him.
I don't think he's anywhere near the fastest skaters in the league though.

Nyquist to me is a much faster skater, but doesn't seem to hold onto the puck as well as Tatar, who to me is a lot like Datsyuk in that he doesn't need elite level speed to give defenders trouble.

He protects the puck very well and is very shifty with the puck so its difficult to take it off him.

Quick players like Helm, Nyquist and Draper before them get a lot of breakaways and to me that isn't really Tatar's game.

Helm is fast. Tatar is quick. Fedorov was fast.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Having seen Tatar play the last few weeks I can only think how overrated this guy is on this board. He's a marginal NHL player at the moment who I believe deserves the chance to improve and prove himself but the way some people see a star in every little European kid coming out of GR who has a bit of a skill is almost satire by this point.

It reminds me of how Don Cherry would be on the Leafs' back every time some "good old Canadian" kid would do well for the Marlies and they aren't immediately calling him up and plugging him into the first line.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Having seen Tatar play the last few weeks I can only think how overrated this guy is on this board. He's a marginal NHL player at the moment who I believe deserves the chance to improve and prove himself but the way some people see a star in every little European kid coming out of GR who has a bit of a skill is almost satire by this point.

It reminds me of how Don Cherry would be on the Leafs' back every time some "good old Canadian" kid would do well for the Marlies and they aren't immediately calling him up and plugging him into the first line.

I... I don't know what to make of this.

 

[Henkka]

Having seen Tatar play the last few weeks I can only think how overrated this guy is on this board. He's a marginal NHL player at the moment who I believe deserves the chance to improve and prove himself but the way some people see a star in every little European kid coming out of GR who has a bit of a skill is almost satire by this point.

It reminds me of how Don Cherry would be on the Leafs' back every time some "good old Canadian" kid would do well for the Marlies and they aren't immediately calling him up and plugging him into the first line.

Tatar's goals/icetime is at team TOP3. At Datsyuk and Zetterberg level.

He must be very overrated.

 

[The Geelee]

Having seen Tatar play the last few weeks I can only think how overrated this guy is on this board. He's a marginal NHL player at the moment who I believe deserves the chance to improve and prove himself but the way some people see a star in every little European kid coming out of GR who has a bit of a skill is almost satire by this point.

It reminds me of how Don Cherry would be on the Leafs' back every time some "good old Canadian" kid would do well for the Marlies and they aren't immediately calling him up and plugging him into the first line.

 

[FlashyG]

Having seen Tatar play the last few weeks I can only think how overrated this guy is on this board. He's a marginal NHL player at the moment who I believe deserves the chance to improve and prove himself but the way some people see a star in every little European kid coming out of GR who has a bit of a skill is almost satire by this point.

It reminds me of how Don Cherry would be on the Leafs' back every time some "good old Canadian" kid would do well for the Marlies and they aren't immediately calling him up and plugging him into the first line.

He's essentially a rookie, and when compared to the leading rookies in the NHL he's 8th in goals, 11th in pts and has played at least 2 minutes less per game than every player ahead of him.

He's on pace for 41 pts this season, 3 less than Zetteberg in his first full season and 6 more than Datsyuk.

Clearly he has a lot of work to do if he's going to progress anywhere near where they have but he's far from a marginal NHLer, and there is every reason to be excited about how good he can potentially become.

 

[Frk It]

He's essentially a rookie, and when compared to the leading rookies in the NHL he's 8th in goals, 11th in pts and has played at least 2 minutes less per game than every player ahead of him.

He's on pace for 41 pts this season, 3 less than Zetteberg in his first full season and 6 more than Datsyuk.

Clearly he has a lot of work to do if he's going to progress anywhere near where they have but he's far from a marginal NHLer, and there is every reason to be excited about how good he can potentially become.

Some really good perspective with this post.

 

[Johnz96*]

Having seen Tatar play the last few weeks I can only think how overrated this guy is on this board. He's a marginal NHL player at the moment who I believe deserves the chance to improve and prove himself but the way some people see a star in every little European kid coming out of GR who has a bit of a skill is almost satire by this point.

It reminds me of how Don Cherry would be on the Leafs' back every time some "good old Canadian" kid would do well for the Marlies and they aren't immediately calling him up and plugging him into the first line.

He is a lot better than a lot of guys that have got a lot more ice-time than him. The team would be much more successful if they played their better players more than the inferior ones.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Tatar's problem is that he is physically not where he needs to be to play a full NHL season as anything other than a minimal minutes guy, he's soft and also verges on being a defensive liability. I don't see the speed or aggressiveness you'd like on the lower lines.

The problem is that people see a few good moves in a game and think "star" just because there's so little else to be excited about with this team. The fact that playing limited minutes against the other teams' weaker lines is absolutely not comparable to being a top minutes guy taking on the other teams' best lines is lost so often in these discussions it's not even funny.

It reminds me of when Hudler was meant to be a superstar, the membership of that club dwindled slowly but steadily.