Tomas Tatar

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mister Ed

Registered User
Dec 21, 2008
5,254
968
He's been one of the bright spots for the Red Wings this year, what do you think his ceiling is; a Cam Atkinson type of player, or even higher, like a Martin St-Louis (Not saying he'll be as good) type player?
 

Vladdy84

L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Dec 1, 2011
10,675
12
Farmington
25-30 goal scorer, 55-60 pts. Needs to play better in his own zone and realize that sometimes it's better to just dump and chase rather than trying to go around 2 or 3 defenders.
 

NyquistIsMyGod*

Guest
Absolute huge peak that likely won't happen. Probably 90 points. Likely peak, 60 points consistently and gets up to average defensively. Best season will probably be AROUND a PPG. He has the tools and the design to be an absolute elite playmaking winger. His offensive IQ is terrific. He still tries to do too much, but has meshed with some players (Nyquist, Franzen) and I doubt he meshes with Zetterberg or Datsyuk.
 

Shoalzie

Trust me!
May 16, 2003
16,904
180
Portland, MI
To me, he's a cross between Slava Kozlov and Hudler...probably not quite the finisher that Kozlov was but has some flash and flare of Hudler. He's a smaller guy with good wheels and a good imagination.
 

NyquistIsMyGod*

Guest
I understand the Tatar and Hudler debate a little bit, but they're different offense players.

Tatar's skating is superior.
Tatar creates. Tatar plays a puck possession style.
Tatar runs the line.
Tatar is more physical (Hudler was quite a bit hsi last year here though)
Tatar is performing higher at a younger age.

Tatar has a higher peak. He seems more likely to be a more well rounded player during his best years. Both are energetic when they score, which I LOVE TO WATCH.

I think Tats will be better. Hudler's peaking right now, and it's quite impressive.
 

19 for president

Registered User
Apr 28, 2002
2,832
950
I think Kozlov is a pretty good comparison. I think he is a bit grittier around the net but not quite as good with the puck as Kozzie was. I'd probably pencil him in at around a 60pt player that thrives in a puck control system. His game reminds me a bit of Hudlers but I think their mentalities are different. Tatar plays a more NA style vs Hudler. He is more of a shoot first and physically engaged player. Hudler would go to the hard areas but he didn't really engage physically. If Tatar was 6'3 he'd probably be a sniping PF, whereas Hudler would be more of a Franzen type player.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,201
14,683
Absolute huge peak that likely won't happen. Probably 90 points. Likely peak, 60 points consistently and gets up to average defensively. Best season will probably be AROUND a PPG. He has the tools and the design to be an absolute elite playmaking winger. His offensive IQ is terrific. He still tries to do too much, but has meshed with some players (Nyquist, Franzen) and I doubt he meshes with Zetterberg or Datsyuk.

What's the point of throwing out a potential peak, if he's never going to hit it?

90 pts is a bit ridiculous, and there's quite a bit of hyperbole you're throwing out there.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,201
14,683
Tatar is growing on me a ton. I love his passion and energy. I think he can be a consistent 25-25 guy who brings consistent energy to the lineup wherever he plays.

He's basically exactly what we have needed. More scoring, more energy, more talent.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,201
14,683
I understand the Tatar and Hudler debate a little bit, but they're different offense players.

Tatar's skating is superior.
Tatar creates. Tatar plays a puck possession style.
Tatar runs the line.
Tatar is more physical (Hudler was quite a bit hsi last year here though)
Tatar is performing higher at a younger age.

Tatar has a higher peak. He seems more likely to be a more well rounded player during his best years. Both are energetic when they score, which I LOVE TO WATCH.

I think Tats will be better. Hudler's peaking right now, and it's quite impressive.

You're not giving enough credit to Hudler. In all fairness.
 

NyquistIsMyGod*

Guest
What's the point of throwing out a potential peak, if he's never going to hit it?

90 pts is a bit ridiculous, and there's quite a bit of hyperbole you're throwing out there.

How's it ridiculous? The absolute best in the absolute best case of his best year is 90 points. His likely peak is around 65 points consistent with a big year around a PPG.


You're not giving enough credit to Hudler. In all fairness.

How? I pointed out some differences. I can do the same for Hudler. Hudler clearly has a better shot. Hudler is better at deflections. Hudler's better defensively.

They are both one dimensional offensive players, but they're very different.
 

NyquistIsMyGod*

Guest
Tatar is growing on me a ton. I love his passion and energy. I think he can be a consistent 25-25 guy who brings consistent energy to the lineup wherever he plays.

He's basically exactly what we have needed. More scoring, more energy, more talent.

Maybe you're selling him a bit low considering his numbers right now.


As a first year regular, Tatar has a .55 PPG. That's good for eh, about 45 points right now. This is while averaging 13:30 and he's just now getting solid PP time. So what yo're saying is he's peaking around here? His regular numbers will get higher as he progresses.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,201
14,683
How's it ridiculous? The absolute best in the absolute best case of his best year is 90 points. His likely peak is around 65 points consistent with a big year around a PPG.

Because it's a completely arbitrary number. The difference between what you think his avg is and 90 pts is 25 pts. Zetterberg has only put up 90 pts 1x in his career.

How? I pointed out some differences. I can do the same for Hudler. Hudler clearly has a better shot. Hudler is better at deflections. Hudler's better defensively.

They are both one dimensional offensive players, but they're very different
.

I saw you say "elite playmaking winger". Not so sure about that. I'd say Hudler also had a better hockey IQ and was a better passer.

Tatar is a better skater and more eager to score.

Maybe you're selling him a bit low considering his numbers right now.


As a first year regular, Tatar has a .55 PPG. That's good for eh, about 45 points right now. This is while averaging 13:30 and he's just now getting solid PP time. So what yo're saying is he's peaking around here? His regular numbers will get higher as he progresses.

My numbers reflect his minutes and role.

I don't ever see him begin a 1st line forward. I see him bouncing between the 2nd and 3rd line and getting some PP time. BASED ON THAT my expected numbers would actually be very good production. That's about what Franzen puts up.

Again 25 g, 25-30 a. 50-55 pts.

That's solid production dude. I see Mantha or Jurco leapfrogging him soon.

If he was a 1st line fwd maybe he does hit the #s you said. But I don't think it'll happen in Detroit.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

NyquistIsMyGod*

Guest
Because it's a completely arbitrary number. The difference between what you think his avg is and 90 pts is 25 pts. Zetterberg has only put up 90 pts 1x in his career.

.

I saw you say "elite playmaking winger". Not so sure about that. I'd say Hudler also had a better hockey IQ and was a better passer.

Tatar is a better skater and more eager to score.

Your numbers are wrong. I said his absolute best season will likely be around a PPG, but if everything goes perfect, he could hit the high 80s/90. That's not unresponsible.

Yes, I think Tatar eventually turns into a playmaker and he could have the potential to be one of the better ones. His game suits a playmaking role. He draws defenders, and is solid at finding an open teammate. Right now he's shoot first, but I think later on his style changes a bit.

Hudler's passing is inconsistent. He throws some absolute awful passes. Hockey IQ, overall, sure. Hudler's best season was probably his last in Detroit (speaking in terms of Detroit) where he put up 25/25 and became a physical player (don't ask me how). Tatar could pass that within a year. Tatar eager to score is huge, as many of our players are not, well not at his level. Skating isn't great, but it's better than Hudler's (agreed again). Tatar's style could really mesh as a playmaker. He doesn't have some crazy shot.

Again, if Tatar played the entire season (close to it) he'd be on pace for 45 points right now. His first season in the NHL as an every-day player. That's damn impressive.
 

NyquistIsMyGod*

Guest
My numbers reflect his minutes and role.

I don't ever see him begin a 1st line forward. I see him bouncing between the 2nd and 3rd line and getting some PP time. BASED ON THAT my expected numbers would actually be very good production. That's about what Franzen puts up.

Again 25 g, 25-30 a. 50-55 pts.

That's solid production dude. I see Mantha or Jurco leapfrogging him soon.

If he was a 1st line fwd maybe he does hit the #s you said. But I don't think it'll happen in Detroit.

So his minutes and role has peaked is what you're saying? I think he takes over a Johan Franzen type of role. The #4 or so offensive forward. He's consistent too, which is a bonus. I don't ever see Tatar being a top 2 forward on this team, but I think he can absolutely get up there in points. He may very well be our most agressive offensive player. I like that he goes in the middle of the ice, and drives the net. Zetterberg is afraid of the middle of teh ice or something and seems to fall in love with that backhand shot.

Those are solid numbers, but he's gonig to have an absolute peak year. That one year that absolutely stands out.
 

NyquistIsMyGod*

Guest
Based on what?

People don't just progress in a linear fashion. It's not that simple dude.

I never said that. I said his numbers will improve. He's a first year player (basically) and he's on pace for 45 points. You're acting like he's peaking right now. His numbers should continue to go up. He should get to that consistent 60-65 point numbers pretty shortly. The fact that you're thinking that he'll stay in this role, these amount of minutes, and the same type of offensive production right now is bizare. Here we have a first time regular putting up a pace of 45 points. Pretty sure players that do that will continue to see an increase in minutes, a bigger role, which should lead to more points.
 

JPE123

Registered User
Jan 23, 2013
3,153
10
Tatar is growing on me a ton. I love his passion and energy. I think he can be a consistent 25-25 guy who brings consistent energy to the lineup wherever he plays.

He's basically exactly what we have needed. More scoring, more energy, more talent.

This is where I would place him too.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,201
14,683
Those are solid numbers, but he's gonig to have an absolute peak year. That one year that absolutely stands out.

What makes you think he's going to have an "absolute peak year" though?

I think he's a 50-55 pt guy. You think he's a 60-65 pt guy. 10 pts off. Pretty moot point there.

But to say he could hit 90 pts is ridiculous. You know how many guys hit 90 pts in the last 82 game season? Three. Malkin, Stamkos, Giroux. Tatar ain't even close to any of them.

So is it possible? Sure. Anythings possible. But it is incredibly unlikely.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,201
14,683
I never said that. I said his numbers will improve. He's a first year player (basically) and he's on pace for 45 points. You're acting like he's peaking right now. His numbers should continue to go up. He should get to that consistent 60-65 point numbers pretty shortly. The fact that you're thinking that he'll stay in this role, these amount of minutes, and the same type of offensive production right now is bizare. Here we have a first time regular putting up a pace of 45 points. Pretty sure players that do that will continue to see an increase in minutes, a bigger role, which should lead to more points.

You're sample size for all of this is 24 games of hockey......
 

odin1981

There can be only 1!
Mar 8, 2013
5,033
881
Canton Mi
Why is everyone trying to take a guess what he will produce right now with only like 25 games played?

If you where gonna guess at his potential it is much better to wait 1-2 years into his nhl career. Taking a guess now doesn't mean anything until he has played in the league long enough to fully become accostumed to it.

Kinda just like how everyone is in love with mantha's production and thinks he will be a nhl superstar because he is 19 or so and 6'4'' 210 lbs playing against 16-20 year olds. No one has any ****ing idea how his game will translate to pro leagues and our just crapping out of there mouths hoping that if enough **** gets thrown something hits and sticks to the wall.
 

sully6one

Unregistered User
Aug 6, 2011
1,596
66
Michigan
If Tatar can gain 10lbs of muscle and not lose any skating ability then I see him being a 2nd liner that plays 2nd PP unit. I would love for him to play a good defensive game and safe in the D zone also. I see his point production around 50-60 per season. I don't think he ever gets good defensively and smart wth the puck, but he is still young.
 

Flowah

Registered User
Nov 30, 2009
10,249
547
Why is everyone trying to take a guess what he will produce right now with only like 25 games played?

If you where gonna guess at his potential it is much better to wait 1-2 years into his nhl career. Taking a guess now doesn't mean anything until he has played in the league long enough to fully become accostumed to it.

Kinda just like how everyone is in love with mantha's production and thinks he will be a nhl superstar because he is 19 or so and 6'4'' 210 lbs playing against 16-20 year olds. No one has any ****ing idea how his game will translate to pro leagues and our just crapping out of there mouths hoping that if enough **** gets thrown something hits and sticks to the wall.

1. It's 25 games + 18 games last year.

2. It's not really "guessing" at someone's potential if you wait 1-2 years. At that point, it's just stating what their level is. Not very many players just take another step like that in the NHL. You can reasonably extrapolate based on 40+ NHL games and multiple AHL seasons.

3. Mantha is much younger and hasn't played pro. It's completely different trying to guess his ceiling at this point than it is for someone who's played on the Griffins for what, 4 years? And has actually already played 40 some odd NHL games? How can you even compare those two situations?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->