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Vladdy84
L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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Taller by a little, yes, absolutely.
Same thing with Fil and Hudler tho Fil was more taller. Fil was taller and longer, Hudler was shorter and more compact. Same thing with these guys.
You hear Babcock say "for a smaller guy" for Tatar, and you don't hear him say that for Nyquist.
Flip never got much PP time and when he did it was usually on the 2nd unit manned by a forward on the point who wasn't very good at it.
He currently has more PP points than any Wing (or Lightning for that matter), so he was certainly capable of more but just never got the opportunity here.
Henkka
Registered User
Yeah, because we had Datsyuk and Zetterberg playing at his position. We have to get rid of Datsyuk and Zetterberg to give him the same possibility he has now at Tampa. Stamkos is the right-hander on the other side. St. Louis plays the point. Someone else is the screener, defenceman plays the another point. Nobody isn't a real threat for him there to be that left-handed right-side PP playmaker. He fits there perfectly, and that's totally different than Red Wings situation as long as Dats and Zetts are here.
He would have been had Babcock given him the opportunity.
Actions speak louder than words.
IGiess I was using the term loosely.
I was replying to a post implying that a lot of Wings fans thought Hudler would be a superstar. I don't think anyone thought he would be a legitimate superstar like Crosby, Ovechkin and Datsyuk but he has sure turned out to be a much better player than Babcock thought he was.
Hudler most certainly is a star. He was the Wings 3rd best forward for most of his tenure here butvnot utilized as such.
InjuredChoker
Registered User
what henkka said.
also
1) so far flip has played less than 150 mins on 5on4 pp with lighting. he had almost 800 mins with wings. production with wings was never this good.
2) his on ice sh% is more than 50% higher than it was with wings during his career.
list of players who have been able to maintain that high on-ice sh% on power play the last 5 years:
nicklas bäckström.
end list.
there are some more but they haven't either played enough/at all on pp the last 5 years and/or weren't the #1 guys on their pp. and different players/roles to flip anyway.
InjuredChoker
Registered User
marty st. louis has played that position mostly.
flip didn't spend much time with #1 pp unit when everyone was healthy. some, but it was mostly on 2nd unit. purcell had been that 3rd forward there. or 4th if one counts the screen man.
Even when Pav and/or Z were injured, Fil never got opportunities on the 1st PP unit.
InjuredChoker
Registered User
i recall him being there at times.
and between 07-13, red wings scored more pp goals (5-on-4) than any other team. results were there.
lilidk
Registered User
- Mar 4, 2008
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I'd argue Tatar is a more explosive skater, better first stride. Nyquist skates more like a center. Essentially Tatar is going to create more opportunities with his acceleration and Nyquist is going to play a better two-way game with his speed.
I'm happy both are on the team
I'm happy both are on the team
BinCookin
Registered User
Tatar and Nyquist are both under 6' feet tall. Thats all that really matters.
This is like arguing between WHICH one of the 2 has softer hair… who cares.
Size is not a deciding factor between these 2 players.
Defensive responsibility is almost directly responsible for Babcock's playing time. Offensive production goes right out the window.
(This can also be applied to our superstars as well).
Defense is everything to Babcock. He could care less about offence.
That is why Nyquist more time than Tatar
That is why Cleary gets significant ice time
That is why Filppula had more ice time than Hudler.
Players he can trust not to LOSE the game. (Agree or Disagree with this philosophy, but its pretty easy to see that is what Babcock does)
Vladdy84
L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Henkka
Registered User
I think this is pretty much ******** bashing opinion.
5 giveaways at this season, that is least in the team with Miller.
Vladdy84
L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Yeah, I agree about the defensive responsibility bit, though. I like both guys, and I think Tatar is going to be a better all around player than Hudler if for nothing else than he's a bit bigger and a helluva lot quicker, but he's still a step below Gus defensively. Which isn't much of a knock considering how strong Nyquist is defensively.
He doesn't give it away much, and he's a lot stronger defensively than he's given credit for. Loses more than his share of board battles any more, though. The guy who seems far worse defensively is Andersson. He's put up 13 points, but has still managed to be a -10. Glendening isn't far behind for me, putting up just 3 points but being a -5 from a guy getting minimal minutes against less than stellar match-ups. Really miss Helm and Datsyuk who either put up a lot more points, or were on the ice giving up far fewer.
TheMoreYouKnow
Registered User
The fact Wings fans would argue on Tatar being soft shows that Wings fans don't even know anymore what a tough hockey player is.
Tatar at this point has a touch of the cherry-picking floater (i.e. he tries to do something with the puck, more often leads to bad things than good things and when he doesn't have the puck he drifts on the ice more often than not as well) and he's lucky there's precious little in the way of alternatives in the organization so he's gonna get a big chance, he better uses it.
Tatar at this point has a touch of the cherry-picking floater (i.e. he tries to do something with the puck, more often leads to bad things than good things and when he doesn't have the puck he drifts on the ice more often than not as well) and he's lucky there's precious little in the way of alternatives in the organization so he's gonna get a big chance, he better uses it.
Unfriendly Ghost
Kasper
I don't think Nyquist is that good defensively right now. One thing that separates the two is that Nyquist will put every ounce of his energy into forechecking and playing without the puck. If Tatar doesn't have the puck, he tends moreso to conserve his energy. Of course, I also suspect that's part of why Tatar is so much more productive than Nyquist right now. Nyquist is wearing himself out early in the game, and is absolutely dead on back-to-back nights.
Nyquist has created some great scoring chances that just haven't went in lately, the production will pick up again.
You're literally the only one here saying he's soft. That's not "Wings fans arguing", that's one guy with a crazy opinion.
What is soft? He's not afraid of throwing hits, getting hit, or going into the corners. He takes the puck to the net, hard. He grinds it out on the cycle. I just don't see how anyone could call him soft with a straight face. And I think the fact that you are completely alone in that assertion should probably tell you something.
Yeah those giveaway stats are complete garbage. I've seen games where I count personally Kindl with 2 or more where he ends up with 0. How does it even pass the sniff test that Cleary only has 5 giveaways. Really? You honestly believe that? Unless you're keeping a personal tally of giveaways, I wouldn't trust the trash that they pass off as "stats" taken by X or Y arena. And if your personal tally of Cleary's giveaways for the entire season is at a mere 5.... well...
I agree with those giveaway stats being bogus. Maybe they're not counted as "giveaways" technically, but he destroys the offense, and that's quite clear. He cannot hold onto the puck, can't catch passes, and loses board battles. He coughs the puck up constantly. Maybe 5 giveaways is the number, but it's probably because he doesn't hold onto the puck long enough in the first place. He doesn't really possess the puck ever.
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