Player Discussion Tom Wilson - Part 2

[895]

That's a canned answer that's now a trope. Malice, bias, and stupidity often go hand in hand.

Isn't it weird how every single fanbase, including the Penguins, think the league, officiating and suspensions are all biased against them?

 

[g00n]

Isn't it weird how every single fanbase, including the Penguins, think the league, officiating and suspensions are all biased against them?

I don't really care if fans of other teams have their own versions of confirmation bias. We have data that shows the Capitals have gotten the shit end of the stick in some pretty suspicious ways, and it's been going on for a long time.

Can you explain the massive penalty differentials the Capitals have experienced over the years? Even when the Caps had good teams other squads were receiving more calls, especially in the playoffs. We were always told that better teams draw more penalties, yet that never played out. Not sure if you can still find the charts, but they used to exist.

Do you know when this started? If I remember the research I and others did years ago it was the early 90s, after Hunter's hit on Turgeon, and Schoenfeld telling the refs to have another donut. I also think the limo incident increased the Caps bad reputation. From that point on the Caps were the bad guys as far as the league was concerned.

They probably see Wilson the same way they saw Hunter.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

I don't really care if fans of other teams have their own versions of confirmation bias. We have data that shows the Capitals have gotten the **** end of the stick in some pretty suspicious ways, and it's been going on for a long time.

Can you explain the massive penalty differentials the Capitals have experienced over the years? Even when the Caps had good teams other squads were receiving more calls, especially in the playoffs. We were always told that better teams draw more penalties, yet that never played out. Not sure if you can still find the charts, but they used to exist.

Do you know when this started? If I remember the research I and others did years ago it was the early 90s, after Hunter's hit on Turgeon, and Schoenfeld telling the refs to have another donut. I also think the limo incident increased the Caps bad reputation. From that point on the Caps were the bad guys as far as the league was concerned.

They probably see Wilson the same way they saw Hunter.

I believe this is the chart you're referring to. I think this is accurate through 2016.

 

[g00n]

I believe this is the chart you're referring to. I think this is accurate through 2016.

That's a nice one that shows the modern problem but it's not it. This was data that showed how the Caps penalty differential or some other related stat went from positive to distinct negative starting in about 1994.

 

[Calicaps]

There's no need to assume malice when there's incompetence at play.

How is that a counter? There's not a fact. That's a random guess from you.

And there's equally no reason to assume their just morons. Your argument is at least equally an assumption as the suggestion of bias, although as g00n noted, there's significant data underpinning the latter assumption.

 

[895]

I don't really care if fans of other teams have their own versions of confirmation bias. We have data that shows the Capitals have gotten the **** end of the stick in some pretty suspicious ways, and it's been going on for a long time.

Can you explain the massive penalty differentials the Capitals have experienced over the years? Even when the Caps had good teams other squads were receiving more calls, especially in the playoffs. We were always told that better teams draw more penalties, yet that never played out. Not sure if you can still find the charts, but they used to exist.

Do you know when this started? If I remember the research I and others did years ago it was the early 90s, after Hunter's hit on Turgeon, and Schoenfeld telling the refs to have another donut. I also think the limo incident increased the Caps bad reputation. From that point on the Caps were the bad guys as far as the league was concerned.

They probably see Wilson the same way they saw Hunter.

It was playoff penalty differential. I don't even know if the Caps have a winning record in the playoffs.

 

[895]

And there's equally no reason to assume their just morons. Your argument is at least equally an assumption as the suggestion of bias, although as g00n noted, there's significant data underpinning the latter assumption.

There is very good evidence that they're just morons instead of hating the Capitals.

How else is it possible that every fanbase thinks the league hates them? Because they are inconsistent so every fanbase has two hits to compare where they can say they were jobbed.

 

[Silky mitts]

I think DOPS is legitimately trying to do mandatory suspensions on premeditated hits that result in head shots and the Caps have been repeatedly screwed in huge moments and f*** Kerry fraser

 

[StrikingDistance]

Oh lawd, this is going to be a lonnnng week off.

 

[RandyHolt]

Isn't it weird how every single fanbase, including the Penguins, think the league, officiating and suspensions are all biased against them?

Not really. Part of being a hockey fan is complaining about the officials. We forget the calls in our favor just like we forget the pizza that didn't end up in the net. But there are enough missed calls for all.

Maybe everyone seeing crap calls against their team is just the league pulling their strings. Call it officials managing... games. It's just that no one has stopped to actually track the calls to declare the winner.

Of course we still have to be at the top of the list. Someone please find "the list"

 

[Holtbyisms]

Not really. Part of being a hockey fan is complaining about the officials. We forget the calls in our favor just like we forget the pizza that didn't end up in the net. But there are enough missed calls for all.

Maybe everyone seeing crap calls against their team is just the league pulling their strings. Call it officials managing... games. It's just that no one has stopped to actually track the calls to declare the winner.

Of course we still have to be at the top of the list. Someone please find "the list"

When any of them have a player who gets 2 minutes for looking at someone the wrong way then they can talk. There's an obvious bias against Wilson. Other than that there's been some questionable officiating off an on in all the games as per the norm. Sometimes it works for us sometimes against. But Wilson definitely gets officiated unfairly on a regular basis. So much so that he can't even play his normal game because of it. He pulls up on basic forecheck hits cause he knows they call him for charging or boarding every chance they get. I would go out on a limb and say the leauge has asked them all to be as hard on him as possible to try to conform him into what they want.

 

[SpinningEdge]

Isn't it weird how every single fanbase, including the Penguins, think the league, officiating and suspensions are all biased against them?

You should see how NFL fans think... even worse.

 

[txpd]

And there's equally no reason to assume their just morons. Your argument is at least equally an assumption as the suggestion of bias, although as g00n noted, there's significant data underpinning the latter assumption.

Its funny how people think these referees just call the game like they see them. Each game regular season and playoff, the officials get a pre game briefing and a game plan from the league. The reason some games and some series are called tight and some loose is the game plan provided by the league. When a playoff series from being called loose to tight, that is the league.

In past seasons the Caps w0uld have a big power play advantage. The league would want a good series for tv and they didn't want it turned into a power play show, so Caps series were let em play. Caps would get 1 or 2 pp's a game. That was the league. I can tell you that Tom Wilson was a direct result of that. The Caps decided if let em play was the way they had to play that they needed a game changer. That series where Wilson killed Visnovsky was a brutal physical series. It was let em play. The more dominant Wilson became and the more damaging, the less the league wanted to let em play with the Caps were involved.

Thus less let em play and more Caps pp/s.

I used to have a friend that was a league supervisor of officials. He explained it all to me. These refs don't suck. They miss things like any referees/umpires but they don't suck. They are following a game plan

 

[txpd]

How else is it possible that every fanbase thinks the league hates them? Because they are inconsistent so every fanbase has two hits to compare where they can say they were jobbed.

No....each fan base can point to something the refs miss. they cant see everything. earlier this season Oshie got high sticked and had to leave. Then he was head shot and no suspension. Any fan base in a playoff series would be screaming about the double minor high sticking penalty that was missed. That stuff happens.

Meanwhile, the first Ov era Caps v Pens series. The Caps won the first two games. The 3rd game was in OT. The Pens win on a lucky ppg off of a ticky tack tripping penalty on John Erskine. Do you honestly think the league wanted the Caps Pens to end in 4 games??? Strangely the Pens won game 5 on another lucky ppg in overtime from another light weight penalty call.

You can make up your own mind but when Caps players in OT were tripped or hooked and a scoring chance wasn't taken, there was no penalty. The Pens got 2 of those in OT in 3 games. That is the league

 

[Chokingdogs]

Its funny how people think these referees just call the game like they see them. Each game regular season and playoff, the officials get a pre game briefing and a game plan from the league. The reason some games and some series are called tight and some loose is the game plan provided by the league. When a playoff series from being called loose to tight, that is the league.

In past seasons the Caps w0uld have a big power play advantage. The league would want a good series for tv and they didn't want it turned into a power play show, so Caps series were let em play. Caps would get 1 or 2 pp's a game. That was the league. I can tell you that Tom Wilson was a direct result of that. The Caps decided if let em play was the way they had to play that they needed a game changer. That series where Wilson killed Visnovsky was a brutal physical series. It was let em play. The more dominant Wilson became and the more damaging, the less the league wanted to let em play with the Caps were involved.

Thus less let em play and more Caps pp/s.

I used to have a friend that was a league supervisor of officials. He explained it all to me. These refs don't suck. They miss things like any referees/umpires but they don't suck. They are following a game plan

Preach on, brother TX!

Back in the day, prior to rabbiting of refs, one could almost set their clock by who was doing the game.

Koharski or Stewie? You knew it was gonna get wild.

Mccreary? There’d be BS ticky tack calls as he imposed his will on the game.

Similarly for linesman, albeit to a lesser extent. Example A being Broseker...he never saw a fight develop that he didn’t want to jump into early and try to break up.

 

[RandyHolt]

That isles series was one of best hitting series in recent and maybe long term RAM. In part because the Isles were also hitting as much as we were. We usually dial up more hitting than our opposition.

What was funny about that series was the refs were letting grossly late hits go for the Isles. Martin Clutterkick and Cizi... But make no mistake, the Willy hit was the story from the hit angle. Most else will be forgotten from that series.

I just can't recall as powerful a hitter as he is. Yes I include Ovi in that conversation.

I want advanced stats. What player in the NHL has caused the most injuries on clean hits. Who is it, or close, if not Willy. Injuries/Hit. TripsToLockerRoom.

 

[Carlzner]

This Christmas I am thankful..........for Tom Wilson

 

[Holtbyisms]

This Christmas I am thankful..........for Tom Wilson

Worst contract in the NHL boy the Caps really screwed that one up.

 

[badi]

One of a kind player ,,,,and will be next Caps Captain ,,,

 

[g00n]

Wrong thread lol.

TW rulez

 

[4thTierSport]

Its funny how people think these referees just call the game like they see them. Each game regular season and playoff, the officials get a pre game briefing and a game plan from the league. The reason some games and some series are called tight and some loose is the game plan provided by the league. When a playoff series from being called loose to tight, that is the league.

In past seasons the Caps w0uld have a big power play advantage. The league would want a good series for tv and they didn't want it turned into a power play show, so Caps series were let em play. Caps would get 1 or 2 pp's a game. That was the league. I can tell you that Tom Wilson was a direct result of that. The Caps decided if let em play was the way they had to play that they needed a game changer. That series where Wilson killed Visnovsky was a brutal physical series. It was let em play. The more dominant Wilson became and the more damaging, the less the league wanted to let em play with the Caps were involved.

Thus less let em play and more Caps pp/s.

I used to have a friend that was a league supervisor of officials. He explained it all to me. These refs don't suck. They miss things like any referees/umpires but they don't suck. They are following a game plan

Too many videos clips nightly of refs looking directly at infractions without blinking for this to not be a standard operating procedure.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

I'd buy one.

 

[Ms Maggie]

I don't really care if fans of other teams have their own versions of confirmation bias. We have data that shows the Capitals have gotten the **** end of the stick in some pretty suspicious ways, and it's been going on for a long time.

Can you explain the massive penalty differentials the Capitals have experienced over the years? Even when the Caps had good teams other squads were receiving more calls, especially in the playoffs. We were always told that better teams draw more penalties, yet that never played out. Not sure if you can still find the charts, but they used to exist.

Do you know when this started? If I remember the research I and others did years ago it was the early 90s, after Hunter's hit on Turgeon, and Schoenfeld telling the refs to have another donut. I also think the limo incident increased the Caps bad reputation. From that point on the Caps were the bad guys as far as the league was concerned.

They probably see Wilson the same way they saw Hunter.

What data?

 

[g00n]

What data?

Read the thread, Pens fan. Some was data that was on the web 15 years ago, hard to find now. We may have compiled it manually and lost it. It can be researched again if anyone chooses. Again, it showed that the Caps went from a decent balance of PP/PK to very heavily on the PK most of the time (regular season, iirc) soon after Hunter/Limo incident/Donut incident. There have also been recent stats where, despite good possession and scoring, they have been middle of the pack in penalties drawn, or worse.

Another bit is the graph already posted about playoff advantages. Your Pens were the 2nd most favored team in PP differential for that period. Caps were the least favored.

 

[Ms Maggie]

Read the thread, Pens fan. Some was data that was on the web 15 years ago, hard to find now. We may have compiled it manually and lost it. It can be researched again if anyone chooses. Again, it showed that the Caps went from a decent balance of PP/PK to very heavily on the PK most of the time (regular season, iirc) soon after Hunter/Limo incident/Donut incident. There have also been recent stats where, despite good possession and scoring, they have been middle of the pack in penalties drawn, or worse.

Another bit is the graph already posted about playoff advantages. Your Pens were the 2nd most favored team in PP differential for that period. Caps were the least favored.

I ask because not the case in recent years as noted.