The Sedins Were Stars at Best Who had Each Other. Not HHOF Worthy.

[Hi ImHFNYR]

I’ll keep asking it: 3-4 NHLers are admitted each year, so who gets in ahead of them over the next 7-10 years?

No kidding Crosby is easy to decide as a HHOFer. But you said yourself that the Sedins are iffy even by actual admission standards. So, using actual admission standards, who is beating them in?

Killer question

I'm SURE he'll actually answer it

There is not a single eligible player in history with an art ross and hart trophy not in the hall of fame.

There is not a single eligible player in history with an art ross and lindsay trophy not in the hall of fame.

Throw in the fact the twins have olympic and world championship gold to boot, plus they both have over 1k career points, the twins not making it in would actually be an anomaly.

Calling them borderline is delusional. They're locks based on precedent.

Great points.

@deepthoughtsleafs @JoeyMickP Balls in your court. Looks to me like you're both jealous and not very knowledgeable about hockey (Which is fine as long as you stay in your lane with avoiding hot takes) but maybe you have a convincing argument. So far, nothing.

 

[groov2]

I remember my first beer.

 

[ElLeetch]

I’ll keep asking it: 3-4 NHLers are admitted each year, so who gets in ahead of them over the next 7-10 years?

so, ~20-sometthing names?

Iginla, Alfredsson, Hossa, Brind'Amour, Roenick, Turgeon, Tkachuk, CuJo, Fleury for already-on-ballot. Then (assuming retirement over the next 1-4 years): Lundqvist, Crosby, Ovehckin, Malkin, Price, Thorton, Quick, Kane, Staal, Kovy, Marleau, Luongo, Fleury,

 

[Canadian Canuck]

So? That's why the league doesn't have a Gretzky award. Yet.

So the Hockey Hall of Fame is like that Rocket Richard award? Interesting!
By the way, this is one of the worst takes I’ve ever seen in my life. Easily Hockey Hall of Famers

 

[Bustedprospect]

so, ~20-sometthing names?

Iginla, Alfredsson, Hossa, Brind'Amour, Roenick, Turgeon, Tkachuk, CuJo, Fleury for already-on-ballot. Then (assuming retirement over the next 1-4 years): Lundqvist, Crosby, Ovehckin, Malkin, Price, Thorton, Quick, Kane, Staal, Kovy, Marleau, Luongo, Fleury,

Of the first list none is comfortably ahead of the Sedins except Iggy. But Henrik is very close i would say.

Neither are Staal, Kovy and Marleau. Quick is not making the Hall and most likely not Fleury either.

 

[Bizzare]

Maybe if Thornton plays another 5 seasons he will drop out of HHOF contention.

 

[deepthoughtsleafs]

Only generational players, huh? So, in your opinion, there should be like a dozen players in total in HHOF? Or maybe your criteria for being called generational is way lower than what I consider generational.

Not that restrictive. But I'd roughly estimate in the history of hockey there's been roughly 100-150 players who have just stood out amongst the rest. Do you feel that my definition (although this is a subjective matter) is way out of bounds?

 

[CascadiaPuck]

so, ~20-sometthing names?

Iginla, Alfredsson, Hossa, Brind'Amour, Roenick, Turgeon, Tkachuk, CuJo, Fleury for already-on-ballot. Then (assuming retirement over the next 1-4 years): Lundqvist, Crosby, Ovehckin, Malkin, Price, Thorton, Quick, Kane, Staal, Kovy, Marleau, Luongo, Fleury,

Thank you. The range I gave would suggest 21-40 names. Ideally, I'd hope to see people list 30, but your 22 shows the problem already. Lots of good candidates on there - including some that are obviously above the Sedins. But then you see someone like, for example, Marleau. He may have a case for the HHOF, but even if he becomes the all-time regular season games played guy, it's very hard to justify him above the Sedins.

And you have a bunch of goalies, which is a massive question mark for HHOF admitting. I believe the HHOF has admitted something like 6 goalies in the last quarter century. There's no way they admit all of Lundqvist, MA Fleury, Luongo, Thomas, Rinne, Kiprusoff, Price, etc.

And once you go beyond your list and try to push to 30, who do you add? More goalies? Rick Nash? Gaborik? At some point, keeping them out becomes a pretty tortured exercise.

(FWIW - and without any disrespect to the other players intended - I currently have the Sedins above Roenick, Turgeon, Alfredsson, Staal, Luongo, MAF, Tkachuk, Price, and Brind'Amour as well [obviously some of these guys are still active, so things can change].)

 

[deepthoughtsleafs]

Go ahead...find me a player with an art ross and hart/lindsay not in the hall of fame who is eligible. I'll wait.

I think this could be a case where this is a correlation vs causation confusion. So Hall of Fame players certainly will rack up trophies and accolades. But not every player who wins an accolade is a Hall of Famer. Sure you're using existing players that have been inducted and seeing that every player who was won the Ross, Hart, and Lindsay are in the HoF but you are extracting a rule from a pattern. Like I said, I understand how some people think the Sedins belong in the HoF and your logic is sensible.

I'm just trying to point out the Sedins are the exception to the rule you're trying to apply. You're only speaking to the evidence that they should be in it and saying yup, done and dusted. I'm trying to take all of the evidence (for or against) and concluded that they should not be in it.

 

[Havre]

I’ll keep asking it: 3-4 NHLers are admitted each year, so who gets in ahead of them over the next 7-10 years?

No kidding Crosby is easy to decide as a HHOFer. But you said yourself that the Sedins are iffy even by actual admission standards. So, using actual admission standards, who is beating them in?

Exactly. There are not 3-4 players better than the Sedin´s for every draft class. So even with the time lag they are getting there at some point.

Personally I think 3-4 players every year is far too many, but that is another discussion.

For me they are given HOFs with the current rules.

 

[CascadiaPuck]

I'm just trying to point out the Sedins are the exception to the rule you're trying to apply. You're only speaking to the evidence that they should be in it and saying yup, done and dusted. I'm trying to take all of the evidence (for or against) and concluded that they should not be in it.

You also said:

NOW, I realize that the actual NHL HoF doesn't have as strict of a criteria and if I don't think it's insane to think the Sedins could make the HoF given those standards. But even using the actual standards that are used, I'd still think Sedins are a no.

You have yet to name who gets in ahead of them. 3-4 NHL players per year. It may be many years before guys like Crosby, Ovechkin, and Malkin are eligible. Can you name ~30 players you'd put in ahead of the Sedins?

I know I'm a broken record here, but the point stands: you're totally free to believe the admission standards are too lax and you wouldn't put them in your personal HHOF, but who does make it in ahead of the Sedins based on "actual standards"? Or are you predicting a change to HHOF admitting practices (which is intriguing and I'd honestly like to hear more about)?

 

[Ciao]

That might be a bit of a pissy sounding title, but listening to Vancouver sports radio over the last few days and there's this local feeling (and growing support league-wide) that these guys should get in the HHOF.

No bloody way.

If these two get in, give Theo Fleury two spots.

This is all BS politics.

Did I like these guys? Sure. Were they classy? Sure. Were they skilled? Yes. Were they superstars? Hell no. Anyone with a brain and saw them regularly saw them as good players, brothers who had each other for support the whole time they played, never won a cup, and were never that exciting to watch. Their stats don't warrant them being in.

Daniel Sedin had 1041 pts in 1306 games for .79 ppg. Finished with 393 goals. Had a Hart Trophy and Lindsey Trophy in 10/11 but that was with 41 goals, 104 pts in a year where Crosby was injured and only played 41 games. No Stanley Cups.

Henrik Sedin had 1070 pts in 1330 games for a .80 ppg. He won the Hart and Art Ross in 09/10 sure, with 29 goals. Finished his career with only 240 goals. No Stanley Cups.

Those are NOT Hockey Hall of Fame numbers, by either of them. I can remember all of about 2 plays by the Sedins. There are some damn questionable HHOF inclusions but the Sedins would be at or near the top IMO. I'd look to watch a Stamkos game and of course an Ovechkin or Crosby game. Never ever a Sedin game.

Meanwhile a 5'6" kid who would carve your eye out to compete against anyone, molested repeatedly by a Junior coach, never given a chance at making it amongst grown men, scores 51 goals in a season, wins a Stanley Cup and a Olympic gold, plays at over a ppg for his career (even though being on many crap Flames teams in the 90s once they had sold off all of their talent), succumbs his career to alcoholism but submits to the NHL's substance abuse program and overcomes his illness to return and retire a Flame.

No way in hell a Sedin should get in and a Theo Fleury doesn't. No way.

And full respect to the Sedins on good careers. But their careers were just that, good. Not great. Sorry if that hurts to hear.

Sure, but the only retired Art Ross Trophy winners not yet in the Hall of Fame are Roy Conacher, Jaromir Jagr and the Sedins.

Conacher retired in 1952 and I think time has passed him by, but the other three are all locks to go into the HHOF.

Too bad for little Theoren, but I don't think he won a scoring title and he didn't have nearly the career of either Sedin. Not to say he shouldn't go in, but there's really no comparison.

 

[Knave]

I guess it depends on your perspective. Up until the lockout they weren't anything super special and didn't look like they'd be hall of fame players but after the lockout they clearly were star players.

It's a tough one to be sure.

 

[MXD]

Sure, but the only retired Art Ross Trophy winners not yet in the Hall of Fame are Roy Conacher, Jaromir Jagr and the Sedins.

Conacher retired in 1952 and I think time has passed him by, but the other three are all locks to go into the HHOF.

Too bad for little Theoren, but I don't think he won a scoring title and he didn't have nearly the career of either Sedin. Not to say he shouldn't go in, but there's really no comparison.

He is.

 

[Nosferatu]

It is called hall of fame not hall of over avarage.

 

[Ciao]

He is.

You're quite right. I missed that Roy Conacher did go into the HHOF in 1998.

AFAIK, only Jagr and the Sedins have yet to be elected among retired Art Ross Trophy winners. I'm sure they will all go in.

 

[gwh]

Daniel Sedin had 1041 pts in 1306 games for .79 ppg. Finished with 393 goals. Had a Hart Trophy and Lindsey Trophy in 10/11 but that was with 41 goals, 104 pts in a year where Crosby was injured and only played 41 games. No Stanley Cups.

Henrik Sedin had 1070 pts in 1330 games for a .80 ppg. He won the Hart and Art Ross in 09/10 sure, with 29 goals. Finished his career with only 240 goals. No Stanley Cups.

Saku Koivu did 0.74 in 1204 games, 8 years as Habs captain and is likely to be out of the HHOF.

 

[Dirty Dan]

BRUH

Imagine hearing this, there are these wins

One is an elite playmaker centre, one is a sniper wing

They both won art ross , back to back years.

That is hockey hall of fame, legendary stuff

 

[GeeoffBrown]

Man I hate the Canucks and these two players in particular but I'm pretty sure every player with 1000+ points and individual hardware will get in the hall.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

I'm a Flames fan and this OP does not represent all of our sentiments.

The Sedins were the most perfect duo to ever play on a line together, even moreso than Lemieux and Jagr. The things they did humiliated really good defensemen on a nightly basis. They were the most difficult matchup in their entire conference for nearly a decade. They were one Tim Thomas away from the Stanley Cup. They were class acts in a mostly classless league. They reinvented the idea of the cycle to mean more than leaning against the boards and rimming the puck around. There's a reason when Kane and Panarin played together their line was praised for its Sedinery... like frig this duo inspired the invention of a new word.

Even in 2015 when we beat them in round 1, their aging line was the best in the series by a country mile. We just got lucky that the Canucks' coaching failed them.

20 years from now I probably won't remember much visually about a Leon Draisaitl or Patrik Laine but I assure you, images of what the Sedins did on the ice will reign majestic. It was a beautiful version of this sport that they introduced us to.

 

[Choralone]

My then-girlfriend (now wife) and I went to a Kings game when the Flames were in town. We got really good seats from Clarion - about 8 rows back from the visitors' penalty box - and got there early to watch warm-ups. Theo Fleury kept eyeballing my wife.

Therefore, Fleury shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. The Sedins never macked on my wife, however, so they should be.

 

[JianYang]

I used to believe this notion that the sedins have this incredible synergy, but they aren't great players on their own.

But the year henrik won his hart trophy, Daniel had gone a lengthy period out of the lineup. Henrik continued to roll despite Daniel's injury, and even turned into a goal scorer for that time.

I will still remember them mostly as a duo though. Their puck possession skills were top notch. You could even see that when they came into the league. It just took them a few years to figure out how to translate that into production.

 

[eviohh26]

Only 21 teams in the last 40 years of hockey have won the cup. This whole you gotta win a cup for the hall of fame thing is crap.

 

[Mc5RingsAndABeer]

If Mats Sundin can be a FIRST BALLOT hall of famer with zero major awards and zero Stanley Cups, the Sedins should be locks.

 

[deepthoughtsleafs]

You also said:



You have yet to name who gets in ahead of them. 3-4 NHL players per year. It may be many years before guys like Crosby, Ovechkin, and Malkin are eligible. Can you name ~30 players you'd put in ahead of the Sedins?

I know I'm a broken record here, but the point stands: you're totally free to believe the admission standards are too lax and you wouldn't put them in your personal HHOF, but who does make it in ahead of the Sedins based on "actual standards"? Or are you predicting a change to HHOF admitting practices (which is intriguing and I'd honestly like to hear more about)?

Yeah I gotchu.
1. Do I think HHOF admitting practices will change while the Sedins are eligible? NO
2. Can I name 3-4 NHL players that will be ahead of them? Iginla, Hossa, Mogilny, Alfredsson, Brind'Amour. Please don't confuse this though, only Iglina is head and shoulders above the rest and a no-brainer, don't think twice candidate based on current standards. The Sedins fall somewhere between the rest of the names or maybe even at the bottom.
3. Based on current practices do I think they will get in? I'd say 65 Yes/35 No, so basically yeah I would bet money on it if I had to.
4. Do I think they belong in the HHOF? NO

Hopefully this makes it clear now!