And btw, @Didalee Hed , I love you too. I don't think I've been mean-spirited in here, I just am a bit passionate about the HHOF and those who are included and those who are excluded. I'm quite passionate that the Sedins are not worthy of it. No slight to Canucks fans. I actually honored Trevor Linden and Bure in this thread and from the outset said that I thought the Sedins were good players with peaks of greatness for a few years.
The Sedins Were Stars at Best Who had Each Other. Not HHOF Worthy.
- Thread starter Tofveve
- Start date
Didalee Hed
I’m trying to understand
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I don’t care about your title. Your thread is only made to try and upset Canucks fans. The very definition of trolling on this site. God bless you and goodnight.
No it isn't. I care about the integrity of what is considered as NHL career greatness and how it relates to the HHOF.
God bless and good night to you too.
MXD
Original #4
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The sensible solution in this case would be to just delete your posts and pretend this thread never happened.
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You may of course think what you want about the Sedins, but this is one of two things:
1. Something you got wrong
2. A lie to fit your own conclusion
They never did say or demand to be drafted by the same team. Altough this myth seem hard to get rid off and was started already a year or two before their draft. They never demanded to be on the same line, in fact they were split up a few times during their first years.
There are alot interviews around from that time and they always say they would like to end up together but understand it will be hard and that they will honour their draft team. There are also alot of others (including Brian Burke, who was the one who masterminded the trades at the draft 1999...) who speculated that they would stay in Europe if not on the same team. And for some reason others words about Sedins have caught on more than Sedins words themselfes.
Facts:
* The Sedins before the draft said they expected to play on different teams.
* Brian Burke had one of the most impressive draft trade days ever and made sure to get both.
* They didn´t demand to play on the same lines.
* They never demanded to stay on the same team. The Canucks and them negotiated just as every other players/teams in the leauge and in the end it´s on the team, not the players, to not sign players they don´t want. If the Canucks only wanted to keap one or not give them NMC they should have given them a different offer.
* They sure weren´t impossible to move. Canucks never had any incitademt to move them. They are symbols for Vancouvers hockey team and even town. Just as it would be crazy for Detroit to have moved Zetterberg or Datsyuk during their playing days, or Washington Ovechkin or Backstrom. Or for the Kings to trade Nicholls when he matched better with Gretzky than even Kurri... wait... that last one happened and it was just as stupid as any one of named trades above would have been.
I wonder if we were talking about two single players with similar skillsets to dan and henrik, who played for the same duration and at the same moment in time for two different teams their whole careers.
I want to underline that we shouldn't, when it comes to HHOF because that's not how HHOF works. There are for the lack of better word ulterior things to consider when guys get in.
They have it in the description as I learned from this thread. It's also not the hall of stats, not the hall of the best and ironically not the hall of fame.(if you wanna go in literal sense) as in not only for the most famous/notorious players get in(thank god.)
Back to the original thought, I don't think as single players it would be as much of sure thing as it is now. I think if we separate the two we'd be looking at two players who for the most part were very good players. There was point in time they were elite superstars. Not having cups hurts them, everyone in here knows that the international stage success usually is just the icing on the cake not the actual cake on these resumes.
I do have an issue with people here throwing the word "dominated" around because if that is the case, where are the constant western-confrence finals appreances? Surely if you dominated the opposition, this is at least done twice or thrice during their peak of five years.?. And also there's a lot of legitimate discussion here to prove that it isn't just a disgrace to be talking about should they get in.
But they're getting in, I don't think there's a snowballs chance in hell they're not.(just to make that clear). First ballot or not, people will remember the identical twins and what they did at highest level of hockey. Likely never to be repeated again. (how many identicaltwins do you even know?).
I want to underline that we shouldn't, when it comes to HHOF because that's not how HHOF works. There are for the lack of better word ulterior things to consider when guys get in.
They have it in the description as I learned from this thread. It's also not the hall of stats, not the hall of the best and ironically not the hall of fame.(if you wanna go in literal sense) as in not only for the most famous/notorious players get in(thank god.)
Back to the original thought, I don't think as single players it would be as much of sure thing as it is now. I think if we separate the two we'd be looking at two players who for the most part were very good players. There was point in time they were elite superstars. Not having cups hurts them, everyone in here knows that the international stage success usually is just the icing on the cake not the actual cake on these resumes.
I do have an issue with people here throwing the word "dominated" around because if that is the case, where are the constant western-confrence finals appreances? Surely if you dominated the opposition, this is at least done twice or thrice during their peak of five years.?. And also there's a lot of legitimate discussion here to prove that it isn't just a disgrace to be talking about should they get in.
But they're getting in, I don't think there's a snowballs chance in hell they're not.(just to make that clear). First ballot or not, people will remember the identical twins and what they did at highest level of hockey. Likely never to be repeated again. (how many identicaltwins do you even know?).
gwh
Registered User
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Says who?
They get to HHOF based on being twins, not because the actual gameplay was HHOF worthy. For example Martin St. Louis (fringe selection already) was on the next level comparing to Sedins.
MXD
Original #4
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How the actual **** is Martin St Louis a fringe selection?
RageQuit77
Registered User
No, there are absolutely no any kind sensationalist f***ery on my part as I firmly believe that either of these pairs of Twin sisters could easily achieve necessary performance level a top level in womens' hockey.
What baffles me the most is that between Sedin Twins there was a connection on ice you cannot explain a way by physical connection (within frames of one body).
They will go to the HHOF, no whiner can do anything about that. It is predetermined fact years before it actually happens.
My basic level inbuilt human social pattern recognition sub-routine simply protest strongly against the BS set in this topic's premise. I will protest against that until this thread will be locked, deservedly so.
Show me someone who has led the NHL in points that hasn't made the HHOF after 10 or so years. That alone gets you into the Hall. Next question.
glovesave_35
Name
Roof Daddy
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gwh
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MXD
Original #4
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If your point is that MSL should be the low-end : ... fine. That's a valid opinion. That would have the effect of kicking out the likes of Pavel Bure, Cam Neely, and would effectively block totally deserving players like Pavel Datsyuk, while making question marks out of guys for whom there should really be no question marks about, such as Jarome Iginla. But some people argue for a small Hall, and I can see the rationale.
If your point is that MSL is the low-end : Take a long look at the list of players in the HHOF. If you didn't change your opinion, look again, because you looked wrong the first time. St-Louis is a very clear-cut middle-third/second quartile HHOF'er.
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CascadiaPuck
Proud Canucks investor.
Only 3 HOF eligible Hart winners are not in the Hall of fame, and only one sincve the early 1950s (Tommy Anderson, Al Rollins and Jose Theodore).
Only 2 HOF eligible Lindsey/Pearson winners are not in the Hall of fame (Mike Liut and Markus Näslund).
All eligible Art Ross winners are in the Hall of Fame. ALL OF THEM.
That's the thread right there. The Sedins will be in. You guys wasted 21 pages of butthurt.
EDIT: I missed that Iginla isn't in the Hall yet. Apologies.
So, correction: All eligible Art Ross winners except Iginla are in the Hall. Plus it's 3 Lindsey/Pearson winners not in the Hall - Liut, Näslund and Iginla.
The larger point still stands.
Only 2 HOF eligible Lindsey/Pearson winners are not in the Hall of fame (Mike Liut and Markus Näslund).
All eligible Art Ross winners are in the Hall of Fame. ALL OF THEM.
That's the thread right there. The Sedins will be in. You guys wasted 21 pages of butthurt.
EDIT: I missed that Iginla isn't in the Hall yet. Apologies.
So, correction: All eligible Art Ross winners except Iginla are in the Hall. Plus it's 3 Lindsey/Pearson winners not in the Hall - Liut, Näslund and Iginla.
The larger point still stands.
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LOLOLOLOL Price? He has 3, 4 maybe 5 HHOF worthy seasons for sure but he also has 7 average or below average seasons, a ton of missed time and no playoff success of any note. Nowhere near a 1st ballot HHOFer even IF he retires soon...but... to think he retires soon with 50 Million reasons to stick around for another 5 years????
3-4 HHOF added each year. 7 years.
3 x 7 = 21
4 x 7 = 28
Yet you settled on....20...names?
Really the important thing is the next 4 years imo
Out of the guys already eligible...Not saying that these aren't eventual HHOFers but why would they be definitively ahead of the Sedins?
Another point for some of the other names. Some of these names gave been eligible quite awhile. If they didn't get in earlier why are we assuming they definitely go in over the Sedins? I'm not saying they couldn't but the idea is 20 names who definitely could go in
If we're being generous...very generous... you named 12 people who have a real strong argument for going in over the Sedins within the next 7 years. You really, really reached in order to get 20.
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Captain And Coke
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Surely if Leo Boivin is in the Hall, then we can expect the Sedins will get in too.
1,150 GP
72 goals
250 assists
Career best season 26 points in 62-63
No hardware
Made the Finals three times in the O6 era but never won
Missed the playoffs seven years in a row
Inducted 16 years after retirement in 1986
1,150 GP
72 goals
250 assists
Career best season 26 points in 62-63
No hardware
Made the Finals three times in the O6 era but never won
Missed the playoffs seven years in a row
Inducted 16 years after retirement in 1986
BobColesNasalCavity
Registered User
Their career numbers would look a lot shinier if they played in the 80s. They're identical twins who won Harts and Art Ross trophies back to back and outscored Crosby, Ovechkin and Malkin, injuries and down seasons or not. Two of the best playmakers of their era. I simply don't see any good reason they should be left out of the Hall of Fame.
I am toxic
. . . even in small doses
Good post.
To the bolded, the Canucks were were beat out by SC Champs Chicago in 2010 2nd round and SC Champs LAK in 2012 first round where Daniel only suited up for the last 2 games of the series, having been out for an extended period of time from Keith's elbow. So for three consecutive playoffs the only teams to beat them were the SC champs. Also, there is more behind the scenes that impacts 2012 (and onward) however it is not my place to say it.
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gwh
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Datsuyk has 0.96, 2 cups and 3 selkes. A great example for a near ppg defensive center that is a lock for HHOF.
MSL is pretty much the low end, unless you include weirdos like Dick Duff (2006) who have zero reason to be in there in the 1st place.
"But, Dick Duff is there because the HHoF is a sham that isn't worth paying any attention to."
Can somebody tell me why Dick Duff is in the HOF?
MXD
Original #4
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Read the list of HHOF members again.
(I do admit that my reference to Datsyuk wasn't that inspired though. He's pretty much in the same range as MSL. No one really cares about his first cup though. He did win two Stanley Cups, but bringing out the first pretty much screams "I'm looking for something in support, so I'll throw something at the wall hoping it sticks")
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Golden_Jet
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