Confirmed with Link: The Penguins have named Ron Hextall as general manager and Brian Burke as president of hockey operat

[Gurglesons]

I don't know that Gaudreau would move the needle much there TBH. I actually prefer Jake. But to that point I don't see such moves putting us in a better position.We'd need a uge gain IMO to really get anywhere. OR, the players collectively have to play at or near their abilities. That could go a long way. But yeah, with Sullivan at the helm I'm not holding out much hope.

Probably because Gaudreau can put up 90 pt seasons without Crosby or Malkin.

 

[Andy99]

For those pining for a rebuild....

One Hard Truth Penguins Fans Need To Understand About Wanting A "Rebuild"

 

[Ryder71]

Probably because Gaudreau can put up 90 pt seasons without Crosby or Malkin.

Then why would the Flames trade him for Jake?

 

[Gurglesons]

Then why would the Flames trade him for Jake?

Because he is a UFA in 2022 and they’ve reportedly entertained moving him because he isn’t “the guy”.

Guentzel gives them a cost controlled asset that can be a solid 2nd line wing behind Tkachuk and has proven to be a playoff impact player.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

because they’re failing now as anyone can see with 20% of the season gone...if your GM mandate is winning, help them...

I am not sure that the mandate is winning per se. That they have to win a cup this year or are broken up. That is ideal of course.

But more show that this team's core can actually compete, really compete. For a cup, not a one and done. That it is a piece or two away. That Crosby and Malkin can still take this team to the top. This year and next year.

Convince management of that or the right response is to tear it down to one extent or another.

 

[Ryder71]

Because he is a UFA in 2022 and they’ve reportedly entertained moving him because he isn’t “the guy”.

So, you want to make yet another win now trade?

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think staying relatively inactive and using the rest of the season to assess the team is the correct approach.

If you can get out of Matheson's contract without too much damage, do it. Especially if it's bringing back a bottom 6 forward, even if they are overpaid.
Swapping McCann for a different fit would be fine.
If they are out of the playoffs in about a month, fire Sully.

I think that's about the most I'd do if I was the GM. if something falls into your lap, of course you need to consider it, but I would not be actively seeking a make a major shakeup. The Master Plan can wait until the offseason.

I'd even include Sullivan in the category of "waiting until the off-season". Not only so you can get a better idea of where the team is at under him, but I imagine he gets signed much quicker in the off-season than he would in the regular season, which would likely alleviate some concerns the owners may have with firing him.

Or if they fire him during the season, make Rierden the interim coach and then fill the head coaching position in the off-season.

 

[Andy99]

I am not sure that the mandate is winning per se. That is ideal of course. But more show that this team's core can actually compete, really compete. For a cup, not a one and done. That it is a piece or two away. That Crosby and Malkin can still take this team to the top. This year and next year.

Convince management of that or the right response is to tear it down to one extent or another.

I agree but I don’t think you can isolate on G and Sid and make that determination in a vacuum without consideration of the players they are playing with (eg, see what happened with JJ on the ice) or the system the coach has them playing...there are variables affecting everything including scoring...what can you judge them on in isolation? Have to look only at wins and loses and we see they’re not getting that done and it’s hugely affected by the goaltending too...so that falls on everyone

 

[DesertPenguin]

Been busy, late to this party.

Quotes from Hextall and Burke sound to me like they take one more run at this, maybe another next season, then they blow it up. I'm guessing they see if they can right the ship for this playoffs, and if it doesn't work spectacularly, like at least the conference finals, then you decide in the summer what to do with the team. The roster we have now is locked in for next season except for depth pieces like Ceci, Scevior and Rodrigues, plus decisions to make on RFAs Blueger and Jankowski. Thats a pretty quiet summer. You decide then whether to take one more run, or blow it up. After next season: Geno, Letang, Rust, Lafferty, Ruhwedel, Riikola and Desmith are UFAs, plus Kapanen, McCann, O'Conner, POJ are RFAs. The team will look very different after that summer. Half those names will be gone and the other half will be re-signed into the new core.

It's gonna be an interesting few years.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

You do know Ceci is on a 1 year deal ?

It was a joke.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I agree but I don’t think you can isolate on G and Sid and make that determination in a vacuum without consideration of the players they are playing with (eg, see what happened with JJ on the ice) or the system the coach has them playing...there are variables affecting everything including scoring...what can you judge them on in isolation? Have to look only at wins and loses and we see they’re not getting that done and it’s hugely affected by the goaltending too...so that falls on everyone

You do only to a degree.

Let me put it this way. Sid and Geno certainly can win a cup, they are talented. But on the right team. They very well no longer will be able to carry a team to a cup themselves. That is the first question. THen if the answer is that they can not, they need to be complimentary players on a more loaded team, how far away is this team? If the answer to that is too far away, then give them the chance elsewhere.

You assess the whole AND the individual core memebers.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think the tough part I'm running into is that I both want Hextall to be patient and not do anything rash, but I'm also happy to tear it down after 2022 if things don't go well. That basically means "you have 21-22 to win", because it's basically punting this year and punting everything after 2022.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's exactly what Hextall was thinking, though. Keep Sullivan and all of the big guns for the next 2 years, see if you can make this team a cup contender next off-season with all of those guys and nuke the team if you can't.

 

[xlm34]

I like the see what happens this year approach that Hextall and Burke are talking about. Maybe it even lights a fire under some of the guys who have gotten comfortable since this is their last chance at staying together as a team. It’s just kind of a shame that this type of move didn’t happen after the Canadiens series.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think it's kinda funny that like 24 hours later people are finally coming around on the fact that Sullivan ain't gettin' fired.

 

[pistolpete11]

I'd even include Sullivan in the category of "waiting until the off-season". Not only so you can get a better idea of where the team is at under him, but I imagine he gets signed much quicker in the off-season than he would in the regular season, which would likely alleviate some concerns the owners may have with firing him.

Or if they fire him during the season, make Rierden the interim coach and then fill the head coaching position in the off-season.

For as much as the ownership and upper management have talked about still being in a 'win-now' mindset, even if it has been altered from 'win-now-at-all-costs', I can't believe they'd punt the season over a few months pay for Sullivan. I think it would only happen if they are in serious danger of missing the playoffs in a month or so, though.

And yeah, unless they already have their mind set on a coach who is available (Gallant, please), I think Rierden would be named interim HC. Then conduct a coaching search in the offseason of all available candidates. I'm fine with that if the Pens are still on the outside looking in in mid-March.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If I had to guess Hextall's approach, this is what I think he will do:

1. Nibble around the edges during this regular season, with the goal of waiting out the rest of the 2020-2021 season. Maybe swap out some depth guys or maybe add a better goalie, but that's really about it. See what you have in the roster that JR left you.
2. Make some more substantial changes this off-season, with the goal of winning a cup in 2021-2022. I could see him pulling a "Neal for Hornqvist" caliber deal this off-season with a more significant piece such as Dumoulin, Rust, Zucker and such. I also think he'll try to get out of some of the bigger contracts the Penguins have, with Matheson and Tanev being the 2 obvious ones.
3. If the Penguins don't win a cup in 2022, nuke this team into orbit. Sullivan probably fired, multiple big names traded and probably a completely different team with a focus on rebuilding/retooling left after.
4. If the Penguins do somehow manage to win in 2022, they'll still try to retool the roster but in a more "add young win-now guys". Kinda the same thing that JR was doing at the end of his time with the Penguins.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

If they are just gonna hand the reigns over to Todd "He Can Fix It!" Reirden, even on an interim basis, I'd rather just keep rolling the dice with Sullivan.

 

[TimmyD]

Well, theres new leadership now. So lets see what they think. I see Geno doing well over the next few weeks.

The leadership group that believes this team can compete are still here and giving that mandate to the new leadership group that was just brought in....if Hextall wanted to trade Malkin and go into a full rebuild I don’t think he would have been hired

 

[HandshakeLine]

Not really. You yourself just stated that you don't think we're gonna win at all this year. How is that any different? lol

As I said in subsequent posts I'd love to be wrong. But I'm not looking at this in the manner some are. Because if we do falter this season, that means changes are a coming. And I think with Hextalls track record in drafting and development, that's a very good thing.

Well, it's a matter of intention, I think, or maybe just semantics. I still want to see the team compete hard and there's always the fact that NHL playoffs give any team that makes it a puncher's chance, series by series.

I'm not CM-level optimistic about this team, but if they can make some small moves and get at least a semblance of a game plan, it's not outside of the range of possibility that we might do some damage in the post-season. Just not particularly likely.

 

[HandshakeLine]

If they are just gonna hand the reigns over to Todd "He Can Fix It!" Reirden, even on an interim basis, I'd rather just keep rolling the dice with Sullivan.

Yeah. If you're going to fire Mike Sullivan, fire the entire coaching staff and rework everything from the ground up. No sense doing a half-assed job with it.

If McCann and our blueline weren't injured, I'd say I'd start with clearing deadweight sooner rather than later, but I'm sure we're just going to try to triage until closer to the TDL to get a better idea of who should be shipped out.

 

[Andy99]

You do only to a degree.

Let me put it this way. Sid and Geno certainly can win a cup, they are talented. But on the right team. They very well no longer will be able to carry a team to a cup themselves. That is the first question. THen if the answer is that they can not, they need to be complimentary players on a more loaded team, how far away is this team? If the answer to that is too far away, then give them the chance elsewhere.

You assess the whole AND the individual core memebers.

but ask yourself this...Bergeron and Krejci—two overall lesser talents we can agree who are as old if not older than Sid and G—are getting it done in Boston...why? Yes, there’s Pasta and Marchand but not a lot more skill...we have Jake and probably better depth wingers overall...we have some good young D comparable to McAvoy...the difference between the two teams is goaltending and team structure/coaching...so, again, I’ll say...Sid and G can do it without carrying a team as they used to when younger if (1) we can get a much better goalie and (2) we get a better system/coaching...obviously they have to be willing to play in that system...do that, and we’ll be fine...maybe easier said then done but I’m back again to goaltending and coaching, what I believe to be the two biggest flaws with this team making a run

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

As long as his magic is the opposite of JR's magic... it'd be a start.

The logic that won us two Cups? The logic that in the last 3 years brought us Pettersson, Marino, and POJ all 22 or younger at the time of those trades. When Addison and Hallander either don't make it or are marginal players at best will come back to those Zucker and Kapanen deals. Time has proven getting the younger or prime age player with term almost always turns into a win trade. Of all the trades in the Crosby era with tons of 1st, 2nd, and prospects traded only Barzal and Kapanen turned out good NHL players and we just got Kapanen back. So it has been pretty lopsided in the favor of trading picks and prospects.

 

[pistolpete11]

If they are just gonna hand the reigns over to Todd "He Can Fix It!" Reirden, even on an interim basis, I'd rather just keep rolling the dice with Sullivan.

Why? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

If they are still in danger of missing the playoffs in a month, after 2 playoff failures, how much worse could it possibly get under Rierden? At least you'd get a look at the players under a different coach and see how much was Sully vs. how much is the players.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah. If you're going to fire Mike Sullivan, fire the entire coaching staff and rework everything from the ground up. No sense doing a half-assed job with it.

If McCann and our blueline weren't injured, I'd say I'd start with clearing deadweight sooner rather than later, but I'm sure we're just going to try to triage until closer to the TDL to get a better idea of who should be shipped out.

Yeah I think they assess til TDL and then do a player sell-off, then.

The coaching staff is staying this whole year though, as dumb as it is, so people might as well suck it up and gird themselves for lots of righteous bitching about it.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I am not sure that the mandate is winning per se. That they have to win a cup this year or are broken up. That is ideal of course.

But more show that this team's core can actually compete, really compete. For a cup, not a one and done. That it is a piece or two away. That Crosby and Malkin can still take this team to the top. This year and next year.

Convince management of that or the right response is to tear it down to one extent or another.

I think Jaded hits the nail on the head here. It's not about getting the Cup-- it's about getting past the first round and in a competant fashion.