Confirmed with Link: The Penguins have named Ron Hextall as general manager and Brian Burke as president of hockey operat

Status
Not open for further replies.

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
80,389
77,970
Redmond, WA
Yeah I think they assess til TDL and then do a player sell-off, then.

The coaching staff is staying this whole year though, as dumb as it is, so people might as well suck it up and gird themselves for lots of righteous bitching about it.

I think I've talked myself into thinking that Sullivan has at least this year and next year. Unless Hextall finds a coach that he'd be comfortable with both while going for the cup next year while also rebuilding the team after. That's definitely possible, but I'm not sure he'd want to hire a win-now coach and then pull the rug out from under him after a year while saying "we're rebuilding now".

I think this team goes towards a pretty hard rebuild/retool after 2022 if they don't win a cup that year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BlindWillyMcHurt

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
34,091
27,915
Why? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

If they are still in danger of missing the playoffs in a month, after 2 playoff failures, how much worse could it possibly get under Rierden? At least you'd get a look at the players under a different coach and see how much was Sully vs. how much is the players.

I don't think it actually would help anything. It's just a change for the sake of making one. They've already tried a bunch of roster "shakeups" and they haven't had any impact other than make them worse. Todd Reirden is half a goof and a worse hockey mind and tactician than Sullivan. I think Sullivan is done here but that doesn't mean I think he's stupid or doesn't know the game. Todd Reirden is your classic hanger-on. I have no idea why anyone was happy to see him return. He reminds me of Disco's stench.
 

HandshakeLine

A real jerk thing
Nov 9, 2005
47,759
31,602
Praha, CZ
Why? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

If they are still in danger of missing the playoffs in a month, after 2 playoff failures, how much worse could it possibly get under Rierden? At least you'd get a look at the players under a different coach and see how much was Sully vs. how much is the players.

Well, partially because Reirden is basically Sullivan-lite. It's doubtful he'll be able to do anything with this roster that Sullivan can't. Secondly, he's responsible for the powerplay and it's now awful, even by our low, low standards. Firing Sullivan and promoting Reirden might work as a short-term adrenaline shot for the team, but I don't see any reason to think it'd be a long term solution.

So we have a few options:
1) Make some small moves and hope that it re-ignites the team and Sullivan.
2) Put Sullivan and the coaching staff on notice that anything less than a second round finish is going to have repercussions
3) Wait out the season and do a complete purge of the coaching staff.
4) Do nothing.
5) Fire everyone now and do a quick hire of a new coach.

If Hextall has a coach already waiting in the wings with some assistants, then 5 becomes do-able; it's also super unlikely. 1 and 2 (and even 3) are not mutually exclusive. The only thing I'm afraid of is 4.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BlindWillyMcHurt

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
34,091
27,915
I think, in order to be completely certain about this coaching staff, you do 1 AND 2 then when they all inevitably shit the bed in the first round again you can legitimately say with 100% certainty that you really, really tried.
 

HandshakeLine

A real jerk thing
Nov 9, 2005
47,759
31,602
Praha, CZ
And to piggy-back on Willy's comment, I don't think Sullivan is a bad coach at all-- I think the problem is he's gotten tunnel vision and he's lost the confidence of the players. So, one way of forcing Sullivan out of that rut is by taking away some toys and tweaking the roster-- that might be the miracle cure. Unlikely, but that's worked for some coaches before.

But putting a worse coach (who's already been part of the decline in two different stints here) in for Sullivan isn't going to make us more likely to compete in the long run-- it might scare the team enough to compete hard for a few months, but I think we'd be back to the same problems next year.

If we're going to fire Sullivan there needs to be a proper hire and reworking to go with it, and I don't think we'll have time for that until after the expansion draft.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
34,091
27,915
If we're going to fire Sullivan there needs to be a proper hire and reworking to go with it, and I don't think we'll have time for that until after the expansion draft.

Yeah believe me when I say I wanted this solved like... yesterday. But the reality is that in order to do these things right it takes time, going through the proper channels and due diligence.

I wonder if that's what Burke was partially referring to when he said the fanbase needs to be patient about some things and impatient about others. Though that's such a vague statement you could graft it to any concept lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ugene Malkin

pistolpete11

Registered User
Apr 27, 2013
11,592
10,401
I don't think it actually would help anything. It's just a change for the sake of making one. They've already tried a bunch of roster "shakeups" and they haven't had any impact other than make them worse. Todd Reirden is half a goof and a worse hockey mind and tactician than Sullivan. I think Sullivan is done here but that doesn't mean I think he's stupid or doesn't know the game. Todd Reirden is your classic hanger-on. I have no idea why anyone was happy to see him return. He reminds me of Disco's stench.
I'm not saying Sully is stupid or doesn't know the game. I'm also not saying Rierden is better than Sully or that I was happy to see him return. But if Sully is done here, which if they are in danger of missing the playoffs in a month, I don't see how anyone could suggest otherwise, then you really don't have anything to lose. And like I said, you'd get a look at the players under a different coach which could help making decisions in the offseason.

I'd much rather go directly to Gallant or someone like that, but punting on the season just because you don't want to name someone an interim coach seems silly to me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BlindWillyMcHurt

The Old Master

come and take it.
Sep 27, 2004
17,403
4,758
burgh
Well, partially because Reirden is basically Sullivan-lite. It's doubtful he'll be able to do anything with this roster that Sullivan can't. Secondly, he's responsible for the powerplay and it's now awful, even by our low, low standards. Firing Sullivan and promoting Reirden might work as a short-term adrenaline shot for the team, but I don't see any reason to think it'd be a long term solution.

So we have a few options:
1) Make some small moves and hope that it re-ignites the team and Sullivan.
2) Put Sullivan and the coaching staff on notice that anything less than a second round finish is going to have repercussions
3) Wait out the season and do a complete purge of the coaching staff.
4) Do nothing.
5) Fire everyone now and do a quick hire of a new coach.

If Hextall has a coach already waiting in the wings with some assistants, then 5 becomes do-able; it's also super unlikely. 1 and 2 (and even 3) are not mutually exclusive. The only thing I'm afraid of is 4.
I'm thinking that what hex can do now is make a few small suggestions to sully like saying "i would to make some player evaluations so how about flipping jake and zuc for a few games" or "bring up and play x a few games" in case i make a trade or two.
 

Jaded-Fan

Registered User
Mar 18, 2004
52,446
14,304
Pittsburgh
but ask yourself this...Bergeron and Krejci—two overall lesser talents we can agree who are as old if not older than Sid and G—are getting it done in Boston...why? Yes, there’s Pasta and Marchand but not a lot more skill...we have Jake and probably better depth wingers overall...we have some good young D comparable to McAvoy...the difference between the two teams is goaltending and team structure/coaching...so, again, I’ll say...Sid and G can do it without carrying a team as they used to when younger if (1) we can get a much better goalie and (2) we get a better system/coaching...obviously they have to be willing to play in that system...do that, and we’ll be fine...maybe easier said then done but I’m back again to goaltending and coaching, what I believe to be the two biggest flaws with this team making a run

That is the question that Hextall will have to assess.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
34,091
27,915
I'm not saying Sully is stupid or doesn't know the game. I'm also not saying Rierden is better than Sully or that I was happy to see him return. But if Sully is done here, which if they are in danger of missing the playoffs in a month, I don't see how anyone could suggest otherwise, then you really don't have anything to lose. And like I said, you'd get a look at the players under a different coach which could help making decisions in the offseason.

I'd much rather go directly to Gallant or someone like that, but punting on the season just because you don't want to name someone an interim coach seems silly to me.

I know. I absolutely get this. I'm just trying to think how I figure these guys are thinking. We're not at all in the point of this core's career where they can play f***about with these seasons. But I guess this is just sort of the point they've been driven to and now it's time to sort through the wreckage and reconstruct it into something that not only runs but purrs. Tall order. Frankly at this point I'm looking beyond the core. I hate it but I don't know how much choice I have with all this staring me in the face. Time seems to have slipped even faster than I anticipated and here we are, ya know?
 

ChaosAgent

Registered User
May 8, 2018
17,737
12,094
If the Penguins fire Sully and someone else hires him later, do the Penguins still have to pay out the remainder of his contract?

I've never known how that works - I'd think it's that we'd pay him until someone else starts to but not sure.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
34,091
27,915
If the Penguins fire Sully and someone else hires him later, do the Penguins still have to pay out the remainder of his contract?

I've never known how that works - I'd think it's that we'd pay him until someone else starts to but not sure.

Pretty sure they have to pay the difference (if any... and there likely would be since the Penguins are reportedly paying him a pretty hefty sum) in salaries.
 

pistolpete11

Registered User
Apr 27, 2013
11,592
10,401
Well, partially because Reirden is basically Sullivan-lite. It's doubtful he'll be able to do anything with this roster that Sullivan can't. Secondly, he's responsible for the powerplay and it's now awful, even by our low, low standards. Firing Sullivan and promoting Reirden might work as a short-term adrenaline shot for the team, but I don't see any reason to think it'd be a long term solution.

So we have a few options:
1) Make some small moves and hope that it re-ignites the team and Sullivan.
2) Put Sullivan and the coaching staff on notice that anything less than a second round finish is going to have repercussions
3) Wait out the season and do a complete purge of the coaching staff.
4) Do nothing.
5) Fire everyone now and do a quick hire of a new coach.

If Hextall has a coach already waiting in the wings with some assistants, then 5 becomes do-able; it's also super unlikely. 1 and 2 (and even 3) are not mutually exclusive. The only thing I'm afraid of is 4.
We're talking making Reirden (or Vellucci for that matter) an interim HC. Not giving him a 5 year contract.

They've already done #1. They've been doing #1 for 3 years. Hasn't helped.

Sully should be looking to impress the new boss already, so I don't know that #2 needs to be said. And if THAT'S what he needs to make changes, holy shit. Maybe Sully isn't as good of a coach as I thought.

I'd add #6. Fire Sully. Make Rierden or Vellucci interim-HC. Hire a full time HC in the offseason and let him make the decision on his assistants.
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
80,389
77,970
Redmond, WA
I also think it's worth noting that the Penguins head coaching position may not be that super attractive if Hextall is thinking about retooling/rebuilding the team in the next few years.

"You have this year and next year to win a cup, and if you don't show signs you can win a cup in the near future, we're nuking this team. Good luck!"
 

ChaosAgent

Registered User
May 8, 2018
17,737
12,094
Pretty sure they have to pay the difference (if any... and there likely would be since the Penguins are reportedly paying him a pretty hefty sum) in salaries.

So if it's 4 years/$5M per, Burkle is probably gonna be on the hook for like $10M from firing him.

Hm. Hope they still do it.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
91,452
73,638
San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
but ask yourself this...Bergeron and Krejci—two overall lesser talents we can agree who are as old if not older than Sid and G—are getting it done in Boston...why? Yes, there’s Pasta and Marchand but not a lot more skill...we have Jake and probably better depth wingers overall...we have some good young D comparable to McAvoy...the difference between the two teams is goaltending and team structure/coaching...so, again, I’ll say...Sid and G can do it without carrying a team as they used to when younger if (1) we can get a much better goalie and (2) we get a better system/coaching...obviously they have to be willing to play in that system...do that, and we’ll be fine...maybe easier said then done but I’m back again to goaltending and coaching, what I believe to be the two biggest flaws with this team making a run

I don't think we have any young D comparable to McAvoy, but I agree with your overall point.
 

pistolpete11

Registered User
Apr 27, 2013
11,592
10,401
I also think it's worth noting that the Penguins head coaching position may not be that super attractive if Hextall is thinking about retooling/rebuilding the team in the next few years.

"You have this year and next year to win a cup, and if you don't show signs you can win a cup in the near future, we're nuking this team. Good luck!"
Nobody involved with the Penguins has said anything about rebuilding or nuking the team, though. That is just HFBPenguins thinking.
 

cookthebooks

Registered User
Oct 4, 2017
2,972
1,587
so how long does everyone think before another shoe drops? meaning trades, coaching staff, additional front office personnel?
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
80,389
77,970
Redmond, WA
Nobody involved with the Penguins has said anything about rebuilding or nuking the team, though. That is just HFBPenguins thinking.

Hextall has pretty heavily implied that it's on the table, though. Plus Hextall's resume is that of a rebuilding GM.

It's not definite, but if Hextall is even considering the possibility of a 2022 retool, I think filling Sullivan's vacant seat would be even more difficult.
 

DesertedPenguin

Registered User
Mar 11, 2007
6,768
7,512
I've said through all of this that I believe Sullivan is safe through the season. Between COVID protocols, limited practice time and his new contract, it's just too hard to replace a coach on the fly.

With Hextall and Burke on board, Sullivan will absolutely last through the season, even if the Penguins struggle. They'll use the process to evaluate him and the staff.

I think it's possible you see some changes to his staff in the summer, though. Vellucci and Reirden were Rutherford hires this summer, and Vellucci especially is tied to Rutherford. Reirden has a bit more sway in the organization, but his return to oversee the power play certainly hasn't gone well.

I could see a scenario where Hextall and Burke like Sullivan, but want to give him more say over his assistants, so they work with him on bringing different voices into the room.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->