OT: The OT Self-Isolation Thread 2: Self Isolate Harder

[Hit the post]

This is not at all a fair characterization. One of my close friends is RCMP and he is one of the most level-headed and rational people I know. No better type of person I would want protecting my community. Not to say there aren't ones like you describe but from what I've heard in Canada there are things in place to prevent those types from obtaining the power they probably shouldn't have.

I imagine not so in the US.

From what I gather, the pay ain't that great in the RCMP. To be extent, they lose a good chunk of their "employees" to local police forces as getting sent to a remote area isn't an attractive option for some as well.

 

[rypper]

From what I gather, the pay ain't that great in the RCMP. To be extent, they lose a good chunk of their "employees" to local police forces as getting sent to a remote area isn't an attractive option for some as well.

It is what you make of it. I have a friend who has only worked remote detachments and will only continue to pick those and he regularly clears 6 figures each year.

But I think to work somewhere where you're the only person working and your nearest backup is 20-30+ min away takes maturity and level-headness you might not find in a bigger city environment.

 

[xtra]

Yes I believe the academy for RCMP is 6 months. But it is stupid and disingenuous to compare to a regular education. That's 6 months of living on site, training and taking courses full time all day. I doubt dog groomers are doing that.

However the point that 6 months is not enough is what’s important there. It’s clearly not enough.

it not enough to help the communities they are put in and it’s not enough for the officers cause the situations where they are justified in using force are still traumatic for them as well.

we need to do better for both sides so it doesn’t get to the point of people dying.

 

[Aphid Attraction]

However the point that 6 months is not enough is what’s important there. It’s clearly not enough.

it not enough to help the communities they are put in and it’s not enough for the officers cause the situations where they are justified in using force are still traumatic for them as well.

we need to do better for both sides so it doesn’t get to the point of people dying.

6 months actually seems reasonable, then they go into on job training. What situation would they be better prepared for if they had 12 months of training school training?

As far as I know RCMP have to take a more rural post to start with so its not like they are straight into gang land

 

[PG Canuck]

Why don’t we compare to an occupation that actually has people’s lives in their hands, instead of a hair stylist who obviously doesn’t (unless you get that bad haircut, your life is basically over).

Clearly 6 months isn’t long enough to groom the mentality you need to be a cop and to learn how to deescalate situations instead of escalate them.

Not sure if it’s the same now (I’m assuming it could even be worse now) but in 2017 Mounties were saying there were a shortage or RCMP, so what is happening...less qualified people are being pushed through to just fill spots and we end up with the results we’ve gotten.

The whole system is f***ed that there needs to be so much change that it’s probably not going to happen in my lifetime, but maybe that’s pessimistic. Cops here are answering the same calls to the same people over and over and over which is taking away from actually helping the community.

I’ve had cops here say they answer to the same person 3-5 times a night but all that happens to them is they spend a night in jail and are back out the next night stealing. Just about every call they go to is a known person to them. What the f*** kind of system is that? How the hell do we change this BS too?

 

[Captain Bowie]

Why don’t we compare to an occupation that actually has people’s lives in their hands, instead of a hair stylist who obviously doesn’t (unless you get that bad haircut, your life is basically over).

Clearly 6 months isn’t long enough to groom the mentality you need to be a cop and to learn how to deescalate situations instead of escalate them.

Not sure if it’s the same now (I’m assuming it could even be worse now) but in 2017 Mounties were saying there were a shortage or RCMP, so what is happening...less qualified people are being pushed through to just fill spots and we end up with the results we’ve gotten.

The whole system is f***ed that there needs to be so much change that it’s probably not going to happen in my lifetime, but maybe that’s pessimistic. Cops here are answering the same calls to the same people over and over and over which is taking away from actually helping the community.

I’ve had cops here say they answer to the same person 3-5 times a night but all that happens to them is they spend a night in jail and are back out the next night stealing. Just about every call they go to is a known person to them. What the f*** kind of system is that? How the hell do we change this BS too?

What r4sults are those?? Don't conflate what happens south of the border with how things go in Canada.

 

[PG Canuck]

I guess since the numbers maybe aren’t as high as black people in the USA, we don’t have a problem?

Indigenous people are the black people of Canada.

 

[Aphid Attraction]

I think an assumption is being made that time training is the cause. what can be taught in, 12 months, 18 months, 24 months that can't be taught in 6 months training and a lifetime of on-job learning?

"Boy I was racist in that first 6 months but that last 6 months of training really changed my predjudices"

surly quality of information, training, and culture is the reason for bad outcomes, not the time needed to learn the information.

 

[VanillaCoke]

6 months is just the academy. Then its basic basic patrol with a senoir officer for the 1st year atleast, with constant support and training along the way. I am not at all concerned about the training in Canada.

Its true that the RCMP did relax its qualifications for officers a few years ago, but training was not one of them. They lowered the standards for fitness testing and prerequisites such as relevant previous employment and volunteer experience.
This was done so that communities in need of more police would atleast have the bodies there to protect citizens and if a few bad apples got through they would be vetted in due time.

 

[rypper]

I’ve had cops here say they answer to the same person 3-5 times a night but all that happens to them is they spend a night in jail and are back out the next night stealing. Just about every call they go to is a known person to them. What the f*** kind of system is that? How the hell do we change this BS too?

Your comment makes me think of how anytime an offender is released after serving their sentence and the police issue a warning to the community. All the comments are why can't you keep them locked up? Etc.

That comes down to our courts giving lenient sentences. Outside of someone getting a dangerous offender designation, you can't keep someone locked up for longer then their sentence.

Maybe our courts shouldn't be so lenient or light on repeat and violent offenders.

 

[rypper]

As far as I know RCMP have to take a more rural post to start with so its not like they are straight into gang land

It's random. You could be sent to a reserve town in Northern Saskatchewan or you could end up in Surrey.

There are some factors that go into it but it's not a requirement to serve time in a rural community before moving on.

 

[Captain Bowie]

It's random. You could be sent to a reserve town in Northern Saskatchewan or you could end up in Surrey.

There are some factors that go into it but it's not a requirement to serve time in a rural community before moving on.

It's not random. By buddy's first posting was in a reserve town in Northern Sask, but that is extremely rare for a first posting. The only other person I know that went through the system ended up in Surrey lol. That is more common for first postings.

 

[Captain Bowie]

View attachment 349151

I guess since the numbers maybe aren’t as high as black people in the USA, we don’t have a problem?

Indigenous people are the black people of Canada.

Thank you for the graphic, but the origins of the RCMP as noted is not at all relevant considering the age of it as an entity 9100+ years).

Not to mention the graphic just mentions "police" and not any specific agency. Could be City or Provincial Police in a lot of those jurisdictions.

Also doesn't compare to similar figures for the US.
Finally I don't think the condescending tone is necessary, don't take it that direction PG.

 

[rypper]

It's not random. By buddy's first posting was in a reserve town in Northern Sask, but that is extremely rare for a first posting. The only other person I know that went through the system ended up in Surrey lol. That is more common for first postings.

Random in that they send you where there's a need. Not like, they send all new people to x city or something like that.

It used to be that you would give your top 3 provinces and they would try to accommodate that. Now I think they're more likely to work with someone who say, has a family, to send them home or close to. Over a single person who they'd be more likely to send up north to buttf*** nowhere.

 

[xtra]

Seems like Minneapolis is going through with defunding the police.

of course right now it’s all talk as they have clearly said they don’t have any specific plans on how to do so.

I have so many questions about this and if they go through with it are going to either be an mode for others to follow or an warning of what not to do.

The spectrum of “defund the police” is so vast that without plans it’s hard to judge; I do think however if they go to the extreme of completely defunding it (no cops) like some people want it will be a disaster.

Reallocating some funds to community services and such however might work

 

[Hit the post]

Seems like Minneapolis is going through with defunding the police.

of course right now it’s all talk as they have clearly said they don’t have any specific plans on how to do so.

I have so many questions about this and if they go through with it are going to either be an mode for others to follow or an warning of what not to do.

The spectrum of “defund the police” is so vast that without plans it’s hard to judge; I do think however if they go to the extreme of completely defunding it (no cops) like some people want it will be a disaster.

Reallocating some funds to community services and such however might work

Sub-contract the RCMP.

 

[Hockeyphysio]

Yea but they were untrained uni aged students, told to humiliate and abuse (without touching) the "Prisoners" in order to see how far they would go before they broke, (both how far the guards would take it and how far the prisoners could handle).

The study shows that if you take a person and tell them to be abusive it is shockingly easy to get uni students to comply. and why training the best people for the job is important.

Trevor Noah does a good job of showing how much better the police are in SA and how crazy the "policing strategy" is in the USA, in one of his specials.

I havent seen Noah's video but the police are absolutely terrifying in South Africa, in my experience anyways. Last time I visited I got pulled over three times and asked for bribes at basically gun point.

Watch this video of how they handled the cornavirus

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

It's not random. By buddy's first posting was in a reserve town in Northern Sask, but that is extremely rare for a first posting. The only other person I know that went through the system ended up in Surrey lol. That is more common for first postings.

It’s not random - but the recruits get no say in where they go. It’s on an as needed basis. If the need is up in the territories, that’s where they’ll be shipped; it the need is in a major metropolitan area, that’s where they will go.

 

[Aphid Attraction]

I havent seen Noah's video but the police are absolutely terrifying in South Africa, in my experience anyways. Last time I visited I got pulled over three times and asked for bribes at basically gun point.

Watch this video of how they handled the cornavirus

Yea I would imagine that the SA police would be as corrupt as it gets, like Bali or something. But that could be my prejudice as I have never been. What Trever Noah describes is a lot more reasonable and outlines the problems with the US police well. I assume he is a well-respected source.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Binge watched Defending Jacob this week. Compulsive viewing - don’t want to spoil to much other than to say there are some valid criticisms, but the atmosphere of the show and its cast of actors are all stellar.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Seems like Minneapolis is going through with defunding the police.

of course right now it’s all talk as they have clearly said they don’t have any specific plans on how to do so.

I have so many questions about this and if they go through with it are going to either be an mode for others to follow or an warning of what not to do.

The spectrum of “defund the police” is so vast that without plans it’s hard to judge; I do think however if they go to the extreme of completely defunding it (no cops) like some people want it will be a disaster.

Reallocating some funds to community services and such however might work

my sense is that they will take a long time to really strategize this and figure out what they'll replace the police force with.

in the immediate term, they got a restraining order so police can't execute chokeholds, can't quell peaceful protesters, to compel all officers by law to report any police misconduct they see, compel all officers to intervene if they see an officer brutalizing anyone, and some internal procedural stuff.

in the intermediate term they'll probably push through permanent policies that start to limit what police do and can do and start defunding

in the longer term they'll probably set targets for jobs to disappear, police services to disappear, etc, while piloting a new kind of law enforcement that probably won't be called law enforcement or police

i can't imagine the police department can totally disappear until probably a decade from now though. and really whatever is in its place whether they call it department of community safety or whatever will end up being the people who show up to murders and stuff. i'm guessing those people will get to have guns.

as for why all this is necessary, beyond severely shrinking the presence of law enforcement in the city, see my post a few pages back about how completely uncontrollable and unfixable that police department is. it's literally what they led with in their announcement: "Decades of police reform efforts have proved that the Minneapolis Police Department cannot be reformed and will never be accountable for its actions."

 

[xtra]

my sense is that they will take a long time to really strategize this and figure out what they'll replace the police force with.

in the immediate term, they got a restraining order so police can't execute chokeholds, can't quell peaceful protesters, to compel all officers by law to report any police misconduct they see, compel all officers to intervene if they see an officer brutalizing anyone, and some internal procedural stuff.

in the intermediate term they'll probably push through permanent policies that start to limit what police do and can do and start defunding

in the longer term they'll probably set targets for jobs to disappear, police services to disappear, etc, while piloting a new kind of law enforcement that probably won't be called law enforcement or police

i can't imagine the police department can totally disappear until probably a decade from now though. and really whatever is in its place whether they call it department of community safety or whatever will end up being the people who show up to murders and stuff. i'm guessing those people will get to have guns.

as for why all this is necessary, beyond severely shrinking the presence of law enforcement in the city, see my post a few pages back about how completely uncontrollable and unfixable that police department is. it's literally what they led with in their announcement: "Decades of police reform efforts have proved that the Minneapolis Police Department cannot be reformed and will never be accountable for its actions."

I wonder if the cops walk off the streets; if I was their union I would tell them to walk off tomorrow unless the get job protections; it would be wrong and despicable thing to do but as a union it seems right up the alley of what they would do.


This is going to be an social experiment that could change communities and policing for the world.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I wonder if the cops walk off the streets; if I was their union I would tell them to walk off tomorrow unless the get job protections; it would be wrong and despicable thing to do but as a union it seems right up the alley of what they would do.


This is going to be an social experiment that could change communities and policing for the world.

i haven't educated myself nearly enough on de-policing (or prison abolition) so i'm not really sure what all this could look like. but my big fear is that all those maniacs go into private security and US gun laws being what they are the city just becomes a privatized police state.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I wonder if the cops walk off the streets; if I was their union I would tell them to walk off tomorrow unless the get job protections; it would be wrong and despicable thing to do but as a union it seems right up the alley of what they would do.

but i can totally see this scenario, with the added wrinkle that a large chunk of them come back armed and destroy the city to prove to everyone that you need police.

in a way, they kind of already did the second part the last two weeks.

 

[Aphid Attraction]

but i can totally see this scenario, with the added wrinkle that a large chunk of them come back armed and destroy the city to prove to everyone that you need police.

in a way, they kind of already did the second part the last two weeks.

If all the good people don't want the bad people police (because acab) to be part of the system then they are either going to have to be police themselves or perhaps no one will commit crimes anymore.