The Jarmo Thread

[majormajor]

Like I said, its a bit misleading. The "lie" stems from doing whatever it takes to improve the team, because Jarmo assumed that there was no internal cap from ownership. I don't feel like finding the exact quote from The Athletic, but Jarmo said something along the lines of "we haven't had the conversation (about an internal cap with ownership) but we have great ownership who has done whatever it takes to win. They've been very accommodating." This was prior to the draft. Maybe right after that interview he had that meeting and he was told of the cap, and thus speeding along the Anderson-Domi trade along with the trades that follow.
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I would say "straight slander" rather than "misleading". There's no lie there.

If Jarmo went out and gave $63m to Taylor Hall I'd feel lied to because Jarmo firmly said that he doesn't believe in building through UFA and believes those are bad contracts.

Instead somehow it's the people who thought he was going to sign everyone in UFA that feel lied to!

I don't buy the offer sheet PLD fears. If he signs one, then I'll take it back and eat my words, but until then I think its a cover to disguise the cap dumping trades and internal cap that he didn't believe he had to do. He even admits the trades (not the Domi one) sucked.

Those aren't necessarily alternative explanations. The most likely way a PLD offer sheet is some kind of threat is if there is a low internal cap. And in that position you'd want to trim your fat now rather than waiting until late offseason and possibly be forced to pay to unload.

It could also be that there isn't an internal cap and Jarmo is still trying to pry loose a big name via trade and doesn't want to get stuck trying to squeeze under the $82m cap after the music stops.

Or it could be that there is a soft internal cap and ownership wants Jarmo to stop spending a combined $7.2m on two D that he was barely using, and would potentially allow spending $82m if it's better spent than that. Sensible, no?

There are actually more explanations than that, I could go on, we don't know. In any case it's not that hard to explain why he unloaded players he wasn't getting much out of.

"He did a couple of strange things I didn't understand that I reconciled by presuming that he was totally going to sign a superstar but it was actually because internal cap/fake offer sheet/the pandemic/he hates us! HE LIED!"

Uncharitable, but it's the only way so far I can explain the attitude I'm seeing.

 

[DarkandStormy]

There has been one offsheet in the last 7 years. In a flat cap era, teams aren't going to be offering PLD big money.

The "we need to protect ourselves" is total bullshit when you have $14m in cap space and $5.85m more in LTIR via a contract that's insured.

 

[traffic cone]

There has been one offsheet in the last 7 years. In a flat cap era, teams aren't going to be offering PLD big money.

The "we need to protect ourselves" is total bullshit when you have $14m in cap space and $5.85m more in LTIR via a contract that's insured.

Okay. So why the bullshit? What does he have to hide?

Other than the internal cap set by the ownership of course.

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

Okay. So why the bullshit? What does he have to hide?

Other than the internal cap set by the ownership of course.

Maybe that the UFA pitches he's made haven't worked out. We can't force a free agent to sign a contract that's offered.

Jarmo next move is to poach a good player from a cap strapped team via trade for pennies on the dollar.

 

[DJA]

Maybe that the UFA pitches he's made haven't worked out. We can't force a free agent to sign a contract that's offered.

Jarmo next move is to poach a good player from a cap strapped team via trade for pennies on the dollar.

but not until he stops being scared of non existent offer sheets

 

[jonlin]

Maybe that the UFA pitches he's made haven't worked out. We can't force a free agent to sign a contract that's offered.

Jarmo next move is to poach a good player from a cap strapped team via trade for pennies on the dollar.

Jarmos next move will be to try to pray Granlund to Columbus. I bet Koivu already has called him.

 

[Aurinko]

Jarmos next move will be to try to pray Granlund to Columbus. I bet Koivu already has called him.

If he picks up Granlund with another discount contract, might as well go full finn and pick up Erik Haula, who should be playing wing instead of center.

 

[JacketsDavid]

#1 Sure question them but at the same time question who can do better? Torts has taken them to the playoffs every year except that very first one and they have been improving every year. Jarmo has been probably in the top 5 in drafting since hes been here and id say is also in the top 5 for best trades in that time frame. Only thing he has been questionable on is UFA signings and all Gms wanted Horton his year juat ended bad. Outside of that no bad signings but no good. #2 you are saying you see no improvements in the offseason he made a huge offensive move for us already but as far as UFAs are concerned he made offers they just dont want to come it seems. Just like he brought in Bread and Duchene and offered Panarin a better deal by far to stay then NYR but he wanted the city and we offered Duchene but he always was going to Nashville. We cant.force people to sign here. Thats not a knock a Jarmo though. That's a knock on the UFAs character. And #3 the fact that we even have 1 series win is a testament to this current group because the management and teams we had up until like 2015 werent great. We didnt deserve a win. And we got our 2nd playoff win this year knocking out TOR in whatever weird playoffs those were. Not to mention the fact we lost to the eventual SC winner multiple of our 1st round losses. We are still babies in this league it takes time to build a tradition of.winning. umlike LVGK we werent handed a contender through the expansion. There are plenty of other teams with a very similar lack of playoff performance in the same time span that would get on their knees and perform services for the opportunity to just interview GMJK for a spot on their team.

I agree Torts gets the most out of what he has. Unfortunately for Torts talented players often choose to avoid him. So that's his weakness.
2. Jarmo - He's better than average at drafting but very tough to say top 5.
3. Lot of folks wanted Horton, but only one guy signed him and failed to insure his contract. So congrats on getting the big fish, but shame on you for sinking the boat to pull him in.
4. Guys not wanting to be here is not so much the city. It's guys not wanting to play for Torts. It's the GM jerking around talented RFA and not paying them and in some cases trading them prematurely. Columbus is a nice city, but guys will o to similar cities because they believe, here like you said it's a nice, clean city, good schools and good golf. No we don't have a NYC or LA night life, but it's very similar to most other NHL franchises. Guys don't come here because of the head coach and ownership/management more so than the city. Again my opinion.

 

[Viqsi]

The sunshine pumpers are in true form already. LOL!

Well, the Gloom Gang's was getting an early start with their full-court press, so something had to be done.

* * *​

The roster today is no closer to winning a cup than they were when the season ended even with the addition of a couple of players I like. Everyone on this board knows the weaknesses of this team and they haven't been addressed.

So far as I can tell we had two obvious weaknesses identified that would seem to be resolvable through trade or free agency:
1) #2C
2) Top line LW

Item #2 has unfortunately not been addressed. But one out of two isn't exactly complete neglect.


It's funny. It's like on the extreme ends we've got two fundamental schools of thought with regard to improvements - those who seek to see the team overall be better and so derive some happiness from seeing a new #4C even if that was much lower on the priority list, and those who want Shiny Names to get excited about on the theory that team improvement will sortakinda magically follow.

Those trending towards that first group (and I would count myself among same) have a few things to lean on, but probably the most notable is MAX FREAKING DOMI PEOPLE DID YOU FORGET WE GET HIM ALREADY OR SOMETHING OMG. Those trending towards the latter group... I dunno. I frankly think that renders someone, for all practical purposes, impossible to please, because it's demanding the occurrence of something extremely difficult and highly improbable that does not necessarily lead to better team results. But that's my own bias, and I suppose there might be something that justifies such an attitude. I'm just damned if I know what it is.

srly tho, folks. TEAM GAME. It is a TEAM GAME. With PEOPLE. Players A and B do not come together to create A+B, because PEOPLE ARE NOT NUMBERS.

 

[majormajor]

MAX FREAKING DOMI PEOPLE DID YOU FORGET WE GET HIM ALREADY OR SOMETHING OMG

Max Domi? Doesn't that guy play for the lowly Blue Jackets? How is that supposed to be an upgrade?!!!

You see Viqsi, only players that we don't have are worth getting excited about. I wouldn't acquire a player that I am capable of acquiring / have acquired. Don't be silly.

 

[ViD]

Well, let’s be honest here:

Hall won’t sign in Columbus for one year.

Would you want Hall here for 7 years ?

 

[CharlotteJacket]

Why are we beating ourselves up over Hall? Multiple teams were after him but he didn't sign with any of them long term and settled on a bizarre one year deal with a team that hasn't made the playoffs in nine years.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

Why are we beating ourselves up over Hall? Multiple teams were after him but he didn't sign with any of them long term and settled on a bizarre one year deal with a team that hasn't made the playoffs in nine years.

It's sounding if that was the highest AAV offer he received. I don't blame him for taking that

 

[DarkandStormy]

Okay. So why the bullshit? What does he have to hide?

Other than the internal cap set by the ownership of course.

I mean, yeah, I'm landing on this more and more. It's fine if he has an internal cap, I get it. We're a small market team about to be gutted without gate revenue. I've heard (now two phones down the phone chain...so grains of salt) that he does have an internal cap of $75m if he couldn't land a big name (Hall, Pietro, etc.).

But it does line up with the moves so far. Offersheets are super rare. They have the league-mandated cap space to handle one. Of course, no one in their right mind is giving PLD a 7x10 offer. I do think "protect ourselves" has become the convenient line to mesh with "no internal cap." He makes all the moves as if he's going to sign a big UFA...then it doesn't happen...so it's all about this new threat of an offersheet. And the handful of beat writers are happy to carry water for him.

It makes sense. He's just being coy about why. And if he were to come out and say, "actually, we're trying to stay at ~$73m this season" or whatever, why would any FAs sign here ever?

 

[Monk]

Well, let’s be honest here:

Hall won’t sign in Buffo for one year.

Would you want Hall here for 7 years ?

Fixed it for you. Oh wait...

 

[Byrral]

So far as I can tell we had two obvious weaknesses identified that would seem to be resolvable through trade or free agency:
1) #2C
2) Top line LW

Item #2 has unfortunately not been addressed. But one out of two isn't exactly complete neglect.


It's funny. It's like on the extreme ends we've got two fundamental schools of thought with regard to improvements - those who seek to see the team overall be better and so derive some happiness from seeing a new #4C even if that was much lower on the priority list, and those who want Shiny Names to get excited about on the theory that team improvement will sortakinda magically follow.

I think the new additions will help up the middle for sure but do you honestly believe that the team assembled today is a Stanley Cup contender? This is not shiny new toy syndrome. It's seeing the quality of the pieces that are here and thinking what it could be. Nobody's saying throw money around without regard. It's icing the best team possible. 20 years and 7 under Jarmo. I'm not tickled pink anymore to just have a team here

Max Domi? Doesn't that guy play for the lowly Blue Jackets? How is that supposed to be an upgrade?!!!

You see Viqsi, only players that we don't have are worth getting excited about. I wouldn't acquire a player that I am capable of acquiring / have acquired. Don't be silly.

You're a smarter poster than this. Nobody here is saying that.

 

[majormajor]

I mean, yeah, I'm landing on this more and more. It's fine if he has an internal cap, I get it. We're a small market team about to be gutted without gate revenue. I've heard (now two phones down the phone chain...so grains of salt) that he does have an internal cap of $75m if he couldn't land a big name (Hall, Pietro, etc.).

But it does line up with the moves so far. Offersheets are super rare. They have the league-mandated cap space to handle one. Of course, no one in their right mind is giving PLD a 7x10 offer. I do think "protect ourselves" has become the convenient line to mesh with "no internal cap." He makes all the moves as if he's going to sign a big UFA...then it doesn't happen...so it's all about this new threat of an offersheet. And the handful of beat writers are happy to carry water for him.

It makes sense. He's just being coy about why. And if he were to come out and say, "actually, we're trying to stay at ~$73m this season" or whatever, why would any FAs sign here ever?

If it was Jarmo's intent to make his moves seem "all about the threat of an offersheet" he would have mentioned offersheet somewhere before the final answer of the press conference. It didn't come up before that when discussing why he made the moves he made. I think writers/HFers are just getting carried away.

 

[Viqsi]

I think the new additions will help up the middle for sure but do you honestly believe that the team assembled today is a Stanley Cup contender?

Yes, albeit not the strongest out there. We have an elite defense, very strong goaltending, and an improved offense. We have obvious weaknesses and so are vulnerable, but that's true of many teams with legit Cup aspirations.

You don't have to be a favorite to contend; you just have to be sufficiently competitive. We're on the low end, to be sure, but we're still there. Columbus is seen as plausible competition. Not probable, but possible.

 

[Byrral]

Yes, albeit not the strongest out there. We have an elite defense, very strong goaltending, and an improved offense. We have obvious weaknesses and so are vulnerable, but that's true of many teams with legit Cup aspirations.

You don't have to be a favorite to contend; you just have to be sufficiently competitive. We're on the low end, to be sure, but we're still there. Columbus is seen as plausible competition. Not probable, but possible.

Debatable counter:

Our elite defense is a key injury away from having Kukan, Peeke or Harry consistently in the lineup and possibly on the top pairs.
Our goalies are very inconsistent and need to play to get better. Can they both be content and most importantly thrive in this situation.
They have improved the center of the ice but will that translate to more goals. Foligno may still end up our top line LW this season (no offense to Nick).

Bubble team.

 

[Viqsi]

Debatable counter:

Our elite defense is a key injury away from having Kukan, Peeke or Harry consistently in the lineup and possibly on the top pairs.

Oh come on. For one, that'd take two or three injuries. For another, that's NORMAL for most contenders. Remember when Tampa Bay was having to play Zach Bogosian on their top pairing? And were fortunate that he ended up handling the job so well?

Our goalies are very inconsistent and need to play to get better.

This is arguably true of nearly every goaltender in the League.

They have improved the center of the ice but will that translate to more goals.

I'd say the odds are about up there with adding another LW - because, y'know, goals happen because of the team effort.

Bubble team.

Only if we get ravaged by injuries again.

 

[majormajor]

Debatable counter:

Our elite defense is a key injury away from having Kukan, Peeke or Harry consistently in the lineup and possibly on the top pairs.
Our goalies are very inconsistent and need to play to get better. Can they both be content and most importantly thrive in this situation.
They have improved the center of the ice but will that translate to more goals. Foligno may still end up our top line LW this season (no offense to Nick).

Bubble team.

Our D is still deeper than Tampa's. Unless you are a big Jan Rutta fan?

Is having Foligno at 1LW (where he is a big help to Dubois) worse than Ondrej Palat or Zach Hyman at 1LW?

Max Domi sets up a lot of goals, yes it will undoubtedly lead to more goal scoring than with Wennberg/Jenner in those 2C minutes.

This team could be a bubble team this year, the East is loaded and there's 10+ playoff caliber teams. But once they're in, this Jackets squad has a playoff type build, always a threat.

 

[Byrral]

...............

I like your optimism but good luck with everything falling into place. Plus there are four or five teams in the Metro and three playoff locks in the Atlantic that will make it awfully difficult to get in that top 8 in the East.

 

[Viqsi]

I like your optimism but good luck with everything falling into place. Plus there are four or five teams in the Metro and three playoff locks in the Atlantic that will make it awfully difficult to get in that top 8 in the East.

"Everything falling into place" would involve PLD going point-per-game and Domi not far behind, no next-year slumps for Texier and/or Foudy and/or Gavrikov, and both goaltenders performing at their best. What I was describing was about middle of the road. You were describing a number of worse-case scenarios, albeit not THE worst. (I'd suggest other things that could go wrong that you didn't go into, but I don't want to give other folks here ideas. )

 

[Byrral]

Our D is still deeper than Tampa's. Unless you are a big Jan Rutta fan?

Is having Foligno at 1LW (where he is a big help to Dubois) worse than Ondrej Palat or Zach Hyman at 1LW?

Max Domi sets up a lot of goals, yes it will undoubtedly lead to more goal scoring than with Wennberg/Jenner in those 2C minutes.

This team could be a bubble team this year, the East is loaded and there's 10+ playoff caliber teams. But once they're in, this Jackets squad has a playoff type build, always a threat.

The team with the playoff type build, always a threat and has one playoff series win in history when they gave away a bunch of assets to go 'all in". Yeah you have me convinced.

 

[Byrral]

"Everything falling into place" would involve PLD going point-per-game and Domi not far behind, no next-year slumps for Texier and/or Foudy and/or Gavrikov, and both goaltenders performing at their best. What I was describing was about middle of the road. You were describing a number of worse-case scenarios, albeit not THE worst. (I'd suggest other things that could go wrong that you didn't go into, but I don't want to give other folks here ideas. )

I said a bubble team. There's nothing wrong with that. You and Major acting like I think they're a last place team.