The Jarmo Thread
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JacketFanInFL
Brick by Brick
I am old enough to remember when this organization was building "brick by brick." AMA
AZRoadRunner
CBJ Tucson
IMO, Jarmo's deadline moves were a dangerous gamble bordering on reckless. Implicit in those moves was the notion that the Jackets were set to make a "deep run" in the POs. At best, I thought this team could maybe win a 1st round series. But get past the Bolts, Caps, Pens, Leafs in the POs? Wasn't gonna happen. Jarmo looked at the Jackets and saw a team that I didn't see. If this team fails to make the playoffs, ownership needs to clean house.
No playoffs, no free agent players re-signing and no picks. Going to be a long off season. And I agree that coach, GM and President are all getting chopped.
I don’t think it’s Jarmo’s fault that he added 2 top 6 forwards and the coach has done f*** all to actually integrate them into the lineup.
Firing Torts needs to be the first move. You don’t fire jarmo because he took a risk and it didn’t pay off for reasons mostly out of his own control. I do think he should be on the hot seat IF he keeps Torts through the season, should the slide continue.
Firing Torts needs to be the first move. You don’t fire jarmo because he took a risk and it didn’t pay off for reasons mostly out of his own control. I do think he should be on the hot seat IF he keeps Torts through the season, should the slide continue.
If Jarmo keeps Torts through the season, which culminates in no playoffs, and all of the UFAs walk, I don’t know how on earth he has a job as of the middle of April.
AZRoadRunner
CBJ Tucson
Jarmo has boxed himself in. If he fires Torts now, promotes an assistant (which he almost certainly would do), and the team fails to make the POs, then what? He would have made a panic move that left the Jackets out of the POs. Talk about being on the hot seat. If Jarmo does nothing (Torts stays to the end of the season) and the Jackets fail to make the POs, then he can plausibly say that Torts failed to get the team in the POs despite the TDL additions. My guess is that Torts will finish the season - POs or not.
When JD said "we're going North", did he mean to Quebec City? Still trying to figure that one out.
You're probably right. They say a GM gets to hire two coaches. The first one takes the blame. If you fire that coach and then the second coach struggles, then the GM takes the blame and gets canned. So that's why you don't fire your coach. Genius!
In all seriousness, I highly highly doubt JD and/or Jarmo are going anywhere. Jarmo is saying he likes the build for next year, he likes the prospects that he didn't trade (all the good ones), and if he's right on both counts then it's not all-important what happens in the next couple months. He's got a full year to prove himself right that the team is on the right track over the long run.
CBJWerenski8
Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
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As mad as I am for him going all in on a team that was 1. Not very good, and 2. Not even in a playoff spot at a time, I don't blame him. I bet ownership had some bearing on wanting to go all in, but if not Jarmo had his hands tied and the competitor in him wanted to make a run. It's unfortunate, but he made a mistake. Can the coach as the sacrificial lamb, let all the UFA's walk, and rebuild.
I don't think he deserves fired. He took a risk in a no win situation, and it burned him. It happens.
I don't think he deserves fired. He took a risk in a no win situation, and it burned him. It happens.
Thought I'd copy this over in case people wanted to chat about it here:
General consensus just changed rapidly.
I liked the Duchene move, didn't care for the Dzingel one, didn't like the Kinkaid and McQuaid moves at all.
We could have stopped after Duchene, or stopped after Dzingel, and had just as good if not better team (those weren't upgrades), and kept 5+ picks. Losing the first rounder is fine if you can draft quality like Texier and Bemstrom after that, but then you go and trade the later picks too?
General consensus just changed rapidly.
I liked the Duchene move, didn't care for the Dzingel one, didn't like the Kinkaid and McQuaid moves at all.
We could have stopped after Duchene, or stopped after Dzingel, and had just as good if not better team (those weren't upgrades), and kept 5+ picks. Losing the first rounder is fine if you can draft quality like Texier and Bemstrom after that, but then you go and trade the later picks too?
I've had pretty good success predicting this club's fortunes, largely I think by ignoring what happened in whatever recent stretch, and focusing on fundamentals of the lineup. As much as I'm bummed about this weekend I'm going to stay with that and say we still don't know what will happen with Jarmo's gambit.
Long Live Lyle
Registered User
Pretty much in complete agreement. I’ve mentioned this elsewhere too, but the other problem with the additional moves post-Duchene was it’s kinda fed this beast of a narrative about the CBJ NEEDING to win this season. “Look at how many deals they made! They have six free agents! They better win or else!” And I don’t think that’s helping, especially now that we’re on this cold streak. I think you would’ve gotten some of that even just by trading for Duchene and not trading Panarin/Bob, but adding three more moves made it worse.
Something like the Kinkaid move is pretty inconsequential from an asset perspective. Like, who cares about a 5th in 2022, we’ll all be dead by the time that guy makes the NHL (which he probably never will, anyway). But it’s still helped fuel that narrative that we’ve “mortgaged our future” and causing a lot of tension and angst.
I was okay with the Dzingel move in theory, but he needs to start stepping it up a bit. Still only a few games in so not really fair to him, but unfortunately, given our current positioning and the TDL corresponding to only 20 games remaining, as the great Yogi Berra would say, “it’s getting late early.”
I agree except for this part.
Anderson and Bemstrom were 4ths, Atkinson and Gavrikov were 6ths. Our scouts frequently have players high on their lists that other teams leave on the board late into day 2 of the draft. (Every team's lists are different, but I think ours might be more different). I'm probably still going to be alive in 2027, and probably still a Jackets fan.
CBJWerenski8
Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
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Recent stretch aside, the team lost 5 games not too long ago and has always hovered JUST above the playoff line until January/February. The sink truly started after Milstein informed the club they still wouldn't negotiate with us. I bet we have one of the worst records in the NHL since the ASG.
Either way, the team has shown its colors for a while.
Of course the Blue Jackets sooner or later needed an upgrade over at least Korpisalo whose value should have been cashed in at when the hype rose high with a trade which is the misread rather than what happened a week ago.
Producing narratives and judgment like a weathercock is not tied to la longue duree. For example the Edmonton Oilers faithful had to be proven wrong of their assessment of the the Koskinen signing twice during the same season.
You are also too possessive of your serfs when players leaving at the end of the the season is nothing out of the ordinary for competitive ice hockey teams. Gavrikov, Merzlikins and Texier are probably leaving their clubs, needing to be replaced but I don't know if people around those teams are wailing like their slaves had just escaped or whether they have the next cannon ball already in mind in free for all negotiations taking place in the Eurasian ice hockey pyramid.
Producing narratives and judgment like a weathercock is not tied to la longue duree. For example the Edmonton Oilers faithful had to be proven wrong of their assessment of the the Koskinen signing twice during the same season.
You are also too possessive of your serfs when players leaving at the end of the the season is nothing out of the ordinary for competitive ice hockey teams. Gavrikov, Merzlikins and Texier are probably leaving their clubs, needing to be replaced but I don't know if people around those teams are wailing like their slaves had just escaped or whether they have the next cannon ball already in mind in free for all negotiations taking place in the Eurasian ice hockey pyramid.
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cbj21
Registered User
Jarmo did exactly what he should be doing. The fact it's not paying off is mind blowing. But things may still change.
Reminds me a little bit about the time Collorado added Selanne and Karya as a 3rd line unfortunatly.
Reminds me a little bit about the time Collorado added Selanne and Karya as a 3rd line unfortunatly.
EspenK
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I liked the Duchene trade and still do. The Jackets now for the first time ever have 2 quality guys as their top 2 centers. I think the trade was well worth the cost.
Dzingel might have been an overpay but we needed a guy who could play the LW next to Duchene & OB. Someone, however, forgot to tell Torts that.
The real problem with Jarmo is that the trades for all these guys had to be made now. That the organization only had 1 top 2 C's is inexcusable. Same with the 2nd line LW. To compound the problem the Monsters are a shit show with no one there ready to be called up to fill in for critical needs and all 3 top G prospects unsigned and playing across the pond. Hence the need to trade for Kincaid & McQuaid.
If Duchene doesn't re-sign I think the blame can be split between Jarmo who hopefully had some insight into the odds of him re-signing and Torts who imo has really effed things lately.
Hopefully the Jackets right the ship which they are totally capable of doing and they win at least one playoff series. Otherwise the best laid plans will once again have gone astray.
Dzingel might have been an overpay but we needed a guy who could play the LW next to Duchene & OB. Someone, however, forgot to tell Torts that.
The real problem with Jarmo is that the trades for all these guys had to be made now. That the organization only had 1 top 2 C's is inexcusable. Same with the 2nd line LW. To compound the problem the Monsters are a shit show with no one there ready to be called up to fill in for critical needs and all 3 top G prospects unsigned and playing across the pond. Hence the need to trade for Kincaid & McQuaid.
If Duchene doesn't re-sign I think the blame can be split between Jarmo who hopefully had some insight into the odds of him re-signing and Torts who imo has really effed things lately.
Hopefully the Jackets right the ship which they are totally capable of doing and they win at least one playoff series. Otherwise the best laid plans will once again have gone astray.
The goalie prospects in question could be oscardansk'd in terms of goaltending education and training if you would try to fuse this short-term thinking to somehow benefit the team in the near future just because they are there and here was a void in and behind Korpisalo.
Besides Merzlikins neither Vehviläinen or Tarasov should be anywhere near the line-up right now. To have Merzlikins in already this season then is a far bigger question of free trade as the rich NHL would rather bring them in as serfs tied to the city land, not as the free men Merzlikins is in Lugano for example. Free for anyone to buy. Free to choose.
Blue Jackets have Gavrikov's and Merzlikins's sole rights for the next season and that is quite much already.
KallioWeHardlyKnewYe
Hey! We won!
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I don't see Jarmo getting fired. Not sure you go in this big if you don't have the full backing of JD and ownership.
Torts on the other hand...
Torts on the other hand...
Most clubs have holes somewhere. Teams without holes are contenders. I don't know what "inexcusable" means here, but Jarmo can be ranked next to his peers. Looking at the teams next to us in the standings: Carolina might have had worse centers #2-#4, Montreal there and at LHD, Pittsburgh's bottom six is a tire fire and their D is ugly as hell, and Philadelphia's D core isn't ripe just as it's forwards are aging, and the G is no bueno. The Jackets lineup issues put them next to those teams. Now the lineup issue (really just center) has been fixed, and we'll see if it moves the Jackets up in the standings or if some other issue (coaching, chemistry, etc..) prevents that.
I also doubt that Jarmo would have gone big at the deadline if Panarin wasn't leaving, that part of the situation is outside of his control. I think he would have waited another year for the young core to mature.
Long Live Lyle
Registered User
Sure, and there are numerous other examples both around the league and our team (Nutivaara, Savard). It was a bit toungue-in-cheek. I really wish we wouldn’t have done the McQuaid deal (hopefully will be proven wrong). But it’s still a long-shot that any of those picks turn into bonafide NHLers.
My main point is, while the assets may not be worth much, there were other psychological effects from the trades that I think are causing problems.
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
Jarmo's work isn't done. (Indeed, it never is.) Crap play since what's perceived as an "all in" trade deadline can't be solely how his performance is judged.
The current on-ice mess is, IMO, on the players, in particular the leadership group. I love Nick, always have, but this is another example of the team having some turbulence and not responding well.
The current on-ice mess is, IMO, on the players, in particular the leadership group. I love Nick, always have, but this is another example of the team having some turbulence and not responding well.
They look shaky, I just don't see how Nick wouldn't be the best person for the job. He isn't a consistent scorer and that doesn't help, I'll give you that, but he is the social center of the team. If you have new guys coming in in an awkward situation, a leader who makes friends with everyone and keeps things loose is a big plus. Nick's fight last night might also have been what put fire in the team's belly, they looked pretty good in the second half of the game.
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