News Article: The Hockey News: Rasmussen likely headed back down ***THN was wrong, Ras staying for now***.

[RedMenace]

I think the one benefit if he went down again, he could hit the gym pretty hard.

He wouldn't have to worry so much about being in absolute peak level for an NHL game and could concentrate on building his body up to be stronger and heavier. Still looks like he could pack on another 20lbs and be effective.

Or he could stay with the Wings and train with the pros.

He will gain nothing going back to Junior, other than maybe a World Juniors roster spot, which again, will prove that he's already past that stage in his development.

He will get stronger/faster/better by staying in the NHL and playing/training with the big boys; you don't improve by competing with those who are lesser-skilled.

Where should he be? Grand Rapids, no doubt about it. Given the choice, however, I'd keep him in the NHL and give him that year of experience, even if he has to sit several games; he can go to Grand Rapids next year if necessary. He's seems to be a hard-working, no-nonsense individual, and I don't think this one year will stunt his development.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

He should go back down now. He can play with Canada in the World Juniors. Won't be able to push guys around there. He'll either be at the A next year if he's not showing ready in pre-season again or he'll be with the Wings with a season of being a BAMF.

He can play for Canada at the World Juniors regardless of him playing in the WHL for the rest of the year. We can loan him to Canada and we should for December. But the rest of the time he can spend in Detroit.

 

[Mijatovic]

He will get stronger/faster/better by staying in the NHL and playing/training with the big boys; you don't improve by competing with those who are lesser-skilled.

Actually, hes stronger and faster by building muscle and training the weaker parts of his body.
The better part is debatle.
The experience part is the only thing he gets more of playing in the NHL.

Imagine a 240lb 6'6 man playing at age 20 who can actually keep up with the pace and push through and hold ground versus the gangly 19yo boy we have at the moment whose struggling? I am not saying its the best thing for him to go down. However, there is a definite upside to going down. He certainly cant train in the gym anywhere near as hard during the NHL season.

 

[Oddbob]

Not saying he should go back, but players don't suffer from playing in junior too long! Just because the competition isn't as good, being able to dominant, can be good for a kids confidence, which he seems a little short on right now. He can also work on his less impressive qualities while playing a lot, which in Detroit right now, he is playing a decent amount, but not a lot.

 

[RedWingzz]

they can still send him down later. and probably should if the situation (both team and ras' play) doesn't improve.

I know but what makes them believe that drastic changes are going to come at any point this year? To me it's just dumb to have him here. Put Frk in the lineup, send Ras down, it's a lateral move that doesn't make the team any better or worse. I don't want one of our top prospects to be in a losing environment. This year is going to be bad...like Colorado 2016-2017 bad. I could see us finishing with less than their 48 points that year. Why have a young guy like him play sheltered minutes here?

A guy like Cholo is different, he has proven he can play at the NHL level, and even if he's part of the losing culture, he is learning how to run a PP, how to make smart outlet passes, and how to remained poised as an NHL player. Ras just is "meh" out there. Not looking bad, but also not really doing anything productive.

 

[TCNorthstars]

I know but what makes them believe that drastic changes are going to come at any point this year? To me it's just dumb to have him here. Put Frk in the lineup, send Ras down, it's a lateral move that doesn't make the team any better or worse. I don't want one of our top prospects to be in a losing environment. This year is going to be bad...like Colorado 2016-2017 bad. I could see us finishing with less than their 48 points that year. Why have a young guy like him play sheltered minutes here?

A guy like Cholo is different, he has proven he can play at the NHL level, and even if he's part of the losing culture, he is learning how to run a PP, how to make smart outlet passes, and how to remained poised as an NHL player. Ras just is "meh" out there. Not looking bad, but also not really doing anything productive.

Bro, all of our prospects are going to be in a losing environment for the next few years. And if they are that fragile that they can't handle losing, do we really want them around as a player?

 

[RedWingzz]

Bro, all of our prospects are going to be in a losing environment for the next few years. And if they are that fragile that they can't handle losing, do we really want them around as a player?

Yeah but this year is rock bottom. I fully expect that this year to be horrible, as bad as it gets, and I am ready to finish dead last this year. I think we start the climb next year. Having prospects around this year makes no sense because the team is complete and utter trash. But with some contracts coming off the books, and a more wiggle room cap-wise, it's only going to go up from this season (I hope.)

Here's my optimistic view of the Wings:

18-19: Bottom feeders, easily the worst team in the NHL. Hopefully we get lucky and get Hughes, otherwise I'll be pumped with Cozens/Kakko/Dach.

19-20: Become more competitive, add Zadina and 2019 1st pick to the roster. Have a team full of young guys, and compete hard, and win some games due to skill, but ultimately experience will hurt us. Finish 10th-13th in the East, and grab another promising prospect for the retool.

20-21: Playoff bubble team. I'll go out on a limb and say we are a playoff team again by 2021.

21-22: Definite playoff team, not a Cup favourite, but a solid playoff team.

22-23: Cup contender.

23-24: Stanley Cup Champs!

I know this is unlikely, and is wishful thinking, but I don't think this sort of trajectory is that far off. This season is rock bottom.

 

[newfy]

Actually, hes stronger and faster by building muscle and training the weaker parts of his body.
The better part is debatle.
The experience part is the only thing he gets more of playing in the NHL.

Imagine a 240lb 6'6 man playing at age 20 who can actually keep up with the pace and push through and hold ground versus the gangly 19yo boy we have at the moment whose struggling? I am not saying its the best thing for him to go down. However, there is a definite upside to going down. He certainly cant train in the gym anywhere near as hard during the NHL season.

Junior isnt known for allowing players to train either. If he could be sent to the NCAA sure but that isnt happening. NHL teams likely have way better trainers and weight rooms for these guys to train in. Sending him to junior doesnt mean hes going to gain muscle any more than playing in the NHL so the NHL experience thing is the most important factor here

 

[Invictus12]

I'd keep him on the big club. It seems to me that its him finding his surrounding intimidating more anything else. Let his cofidence grow and I think thats the only missing key with him. The rest of the doors depend directly on that.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

There is simply no perfect solution to Ras' situation. Yet for some reason, it seems to have elicited very clichéd responses like "he isn't ready" or "he has nothing left to prove in juniors."

It isn't the optimal situation, but I do support keeping him with the big club for as long as possible and sending him to the WJC. I am a firm believer that hockey players get better by playing with and against bigger, better and stronger players. While it isn't the only means of improving a player, in my opinion it yields the best and most efficient results. You see it time and time again at lower levels of hockey. It is very hard to kick bad habits when there are no consequences for having those habits. Take for example the criticism from Hunter that Ras stops moving his feet as soon as he receives the puck. We saw last year that Ras can produce a ton of points at the CHL level gliding around. Playing up forces you to shed patterns and habits that simply will not work at higher levels. External forces are very powerful from a developmental perspective.

I am also a firm believer that practice has a significantly greater impact on player development than playing games. Like it or not you have the puck on your stick more in fifteen minutes of practice than a full game. To that end I much rather have him practicing against men than WHL second liners. To the extent skill is actually developed through practice, the WHL provides no tangible benefit that staying and practicing in Detroit does not. Furthermore, the aspects of the game that are most improved through playing (real-time decision making, reading plays, hockey IQ) don't automatically scale up. Ras reads the play fine at WHL speed. If he is going to learn to read and properly react to the play at NHL speed (i.e. stop looking tentative) he needs to be playing NHL games, not WHL games. As I see it, the benefit of sending him down is that he will play in more games and see more playing time. Unfortunately, those games aren't played at NHL speed and don't help him think the game at an NHL pace.

In terms of skating and strength development, I am not sure that one necessarily offers more than the other, though Blash's (?) recent comments suggest that WHL bus rides can adversely impact workout schedules. In either case, I think the biggest gains will be made in the off season.

There was a very good interview with someone from Toronto (maybe Keefe or Dubas) and they specifically talked about how development options aren't always bimodal and that occasionally you have a player that needs to be developed pursuant to a totally different plan. Ras seems to be cut from that cloth.

Anyways, Ras clearly isn't ready for the NHL. In my head, however, the question isn't whether he is ready for the NHL or not, but whether staying with the big club will do more for his development than heading back to the WHL.

Oh, and why the hell are people worried about burning a year on his ELC when they think he sucks anyways. If he is as bad as many suggest, we should be counting the days until he hits UFA status.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

There is simply no perfect solution to Ras' situation. Yet for some reason, it seems to have elicited very clichéd responses like "he isn't ready" or "he has nothing left to prove in juniors."

It isn't the optimal situation, but I do support keeping him with the big club for as long as possible and sending him to the WJC. I am a firm believer that hockey players get better by playing with and against bigger, better and stronger players. While it isn't the only means of improving a player, in my opinion it yields the best and most efficient results. You see it time and time again at lower levels of hockey. It is very hard to kick bad habits when there are no consequences for having those habits. Take for example the criticism from Hunter that Ras stops moving his feet as soon as he receives the puck. We saw last year that Ras can produce a ton of points at the CHL level gliding around. Playing up forces you to shed patterns and habits that simply will not work at higher levels. External forces are very powerful from a developmental perspective.

I am also a firm believer that practice has a significantly greater impact on player development than playing games. Like it or not you have the puck on your stick more in fifteen minutes of practice than a full game. To that end I much rather have him practicing against men than WHL second liners. To the extent skill is actually developed through practice, the WHL provides no tangible benefit that staying and practicing in Detroit does not. Furthermore, the aspects of the game that are most improved through playing (real-time decision making, reading plays, hockey IQ) don't automatically scale up. Ras reads the play fine at WHL speed. If he is going to learn to read and properly react to the play at NHL speed (i.e. stop looking tentative) he needs to be playing NHL games, not WHL games. As I see it, the benefit of sending him down is that he will play in more games and see more playing time. Unfortunately, those games aren't played at NHL speed and don't help him think the game at an NHL pace.

In terms of skating and strength development, I am not sure that one necessarily offers more than the other, though Blash's (?) recent comments suggest that WHL bus rides can adversely impact workout schedules. In either case, I think the biggest gains will be made in the off season.

There was a very good interview with someone from Toronto (maybe Keefe or Dubas) and they specifically talked about how development options aren't always bimodal and that occasionally you have a player that needs to be developed pursuant to a totally different plan. Ras seems to be cut from that cloth.

Anyways, Ras clearly isn't ready for the NHL. In my head, however, the question isn't whether he is ready for the NHL or not, but whether staying with the big club will do more for his development than heading back to the WHL.

Oh, and why the hell are people worried about burning a year on his ELC when they think he sucks anyways. If he is as bad as many suggest, we should be counting the days until he hits UFA status.

That's a fantastic point. I just tend to err on the side of no 19-year old being ready unless it's something like Larkin or McDavid or Matthews where they leave no doubt.

If there is a debate or a question whether a guy is ready for the pros, I err on the side of keeping him down. Sure, sometimes that approach will be wrong. But basically, I think if a guy makes the roster, you should be leaning on him performing his role. I don't see the benefit of bringing a guy up to have his head caved in... or if you're anticipating him to be a top 6 forward at some point, running him out there as a checking like guy with pluggers. When the team is rolling again like the early 2000s, sure, bring a guy like Datsyuk up and drop him on the 4th line, because he'll probably shuffle around and actually play with good players every now and again. But why have Rasmussen who you hope becomes something around Franzen's level play on a line with guys who will be lucky to hit 10 points?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Yeah but this year is rock bottom. I fully expect that this year to be horrible, as bad as it gets, and I am ready to finish dead last this year. I think we start the climb next year. Having prospects around this year makes no sense because the team is complete and utter trash. But with some contracts coming off the books, and a more wiggle room cap-wise, it's only going to go up from this season (I hope.)

Here's my optimistic view of the Wings:

18-19: Bottom feeders, easily the worst team in the NHL. Hopefully we get lucky and get Hughes, otherwise I'll be pumped with Cozens/Kakko/Dach.

19-20: Become more competitive, add Zadina and 2019 1st pick to the roster. Have a team full of young guys, and compete hard, and win some games due to skill, but ultimately experience will hurt us. Finish 10th-13th in the East, and grab another promising prospect for the retool.

20-21: Playoff bubble team. I'll go out on a limb and say we are a playoff team again by 2021.

21-22: Definite playoff team, not a Cup favourite, but a solid playoff team.

22-23: Cup contender.

23-24: Stanley Cup Champs!

I know this is unlikely, and is wishful thinking, but I don't think this sort of trajectory is that far off. This season is rock bottom.

I don't think we can say for certain this season is rock bottom. The difference between Hughes and the other guys is significant. I like them a lot as players too, but winning Hughes is really your timeline and even there I think you need a Trouba or Karlsson in one of the next two off-seasons as a signing for that timeline to lineup.

I know we don't want to believe it, but I am not certain that next year isn't rock bottom at least I cannot say yet that this is as bad as it is going to get unfortunately.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

That's a fantastic point. I just tend to err on the side of no 19-year old being ready unless it's something like Larkin or McDavid or Matthews where they leave no doubt.

If there is a debate or a question whether a guy is ready for the pros, I err on the side of keeping him down. Sure, sometimes that approach will be wrong. But basically, I think if a guy makes the roster, you should be leaning on him performing his role. I don't see the benefit of bringing a guy up to have his head caved in... or if you're anticipating him to be a top 6 forward at some point, running him out there as a checking like guy with pluggers. When the team is rolling again like the early 2000s, sure, bring a guy like Datsyuk up and drop him on the 4th line, because he'll probably shuffle around and actually play with good players every now and again. But why have Rasmussen who you hope becomes something around Franzen's level play on a line with guys who will be lucky to hit 10 points?

I think your argument holds a lot of water when you have a genuinely competitive roster. Where we are in the competitive cycle, however, I do expect some roster spots to be used primarily for developmental purposes. Is Ehn materially more enjoyable to watch than Ras? (I say that as someone who likes Ehn for the record). I also think you have a strong argument when a prospect is in way, way over their head. Ras hasn't looked good, but he also hasn't looked like he will need three seasons in the AHL before he can even think about cracking the roster. No player comes to the NHL as a finished product because you can't replicate the NHL outside of the NHL.

To my larger point, we focus too much on games because that is all we are allowed to really see. In terms of development, however, games are just one ingredient.

We also need to be realistic about Ras. Sending him back to Tri Cities for his D+2 year is not going to make him play the game the way that Larkin and AA do. I hope people aren't expecting him to go back to the WHL and come back as a forward who skates the puck 150 feet every shift. That just isn't Ras and isn't going to happen.

 

[RedWingzz]

I don't think we can say for certain this season is rock bottom. The difference between Hughes and the other guys is significant. I like them a lot as players too, but winning Hughes is really your timeline and even there I think you need a Trouba or Karlsson in one of the next two off-seasons as a signing for that timeline to lineup.

I know we don't want to believe it, but I am not certain that next year isn't rock bottom at least I cannot say yet that this is as bad as it is going to get unfortunately.

It can't get much worse then 1 win in 9 games, and then a -19 goal differential 9 games in. I guess we could have no wins in 9 games

I honestly don't think it is possible to be worse than this year, at least at the 9 game mark. I'm willing to bet the 16-17 Avs did not have a -19 goal differential by game 9, and that was the worst season in a long time.

EDIT: the 16-17 Avs, after 9 games, were 4-5-0, with 8 points, and a -8 goal differential.
and the 18-19 Wings, after 9 games are 1-6-2, with 4 points, and a -19 goal differential.

The 16-17 Avs had the worst season in a long, long time, and we are on pace to smash this, in terms of "bad seasons". I don't think it can be any worse.

 

[Ezekial]

It can't get much worse then 1 win in 9 games, and then a -19 goal differential 9 games in. I guess we could have no wins in 9 games

I honestly don't think it is possible to be worse than this year, at least at the 9 game mark. I'm willing to bet the 16-17 Avs did not have a -19 goal differential by game 9, and that was the worst season in a long time.

EDIT: the 16-17 Avs, after 9 games, were 4-5-0, with 8 points, and a -8 goal differential.
and the 18-19 Wings, after 9 games are 1-6-2, with 4 points, and a -19 goal differential.

The 16-17 Avs had the worst season in a long, long time, and we are on pace to smash this, in terms of "bad seasons". I don't think it can be any worse.

We've been without half our D corps for most of those 9 games. Trying to compare their first 9 games to our first 9 games is pointless. We're bad but to act like this is the definite low point in the rebuild is disingenuous. There's no guarantees that 19-20 is going to be a better season.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

It can't get much worse then 1 win in 9 games, and then a -19 goal differential 9 games in. I guess we could have no wins in 9 games

I honestly don't think it is possible to be worse than this year, at least at the 9 game mark. I'm willing to bet the 16-17 Avs did not have a -19 goal differential by game 9, and that was the worst season in a long time.

EDIT: the 16-17 Avs, after 9 games, were 4-5-0, with 8 points, and a -8 goal differential.
and the 18-19 Wings, after 9 games are 1-6-2, with 4 points, and a -19 goal differential.

The 16-17 Avs had the worst season in a long, long time, and we are on pace to smash this, in terms of "bad seasons". I don't think it can be any worse.

The opening 10 game segment of our season is our toughest stretch of the year in my opinion. With the injuries it just got even more treacherous. Just like we kept saying for most of last year that March was going to be a nightmare and it was. We are bad, so we will see a lot of bad hockey. But this was always going to be a tough stretch in my opinion.

It can be worse, that Avs team went on a couple of really big stretches like we are in now. I still expect us to be in the 60 point territory probably 64-68 range, time will tell but that should be the basement of the league. I just am not sure we climb right back out next year at this point. We have a long ways to go for that to be the case.

 

[Henkka]

More we lose, more the contenders are going to take a "free day" against us. Then we'll get some wins, when the opposite team just won't care.

This game against Jets could be the first one. Against different conference, and they have tougher game against the Maple Leafs tomorrow. It's possible, that they don't give a shit against us.

Only thing what is sure, is that Patrik Laine will score.

 

[RedWingzz]

The opening 10 game segment of our season is our toughest stretch of the year in my opinion. With the injuries it just got even more treacherous. Just like we kept saying for most of last year that March was going to be a nightmare and it was. We are bad, so we will see a lot of bad hockey. But this was always going to be a tough stretch in my opinion.

It can be worse, that Avs team went on a couple of really big stretches like we are in now. I still expect us to be in the 60 point territory probably 64-68 range, time will tell but that should be the basement of the league. I just am not sure we climb right back out next year at this point. We have a long ways to go for that to be the case.

I will bet you any amount of money that we finish with less than 68 points. That would require us to get 64 points in the next 73 games lol... I will be shocked if we get more than 60 points. This team is a disaster in every facet of the game. Our forwards can't score, our D can't defend, our goalie can't make a save, our coaches can't coach and our manager can't manage.

At least beer sales should be through the roof...on a second thought, they will be down too because there is nobody at the game. You could hear a pin drop right now. I think I can hear Andrew and Martin talking in section 212 from my tv screen.

 

[Perfect Human]

Looks like he is staying up. It sounds like he will be playing center tomorrow. I think he will get goals this season and will continue to get better.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Can we change the title as he will be staying for the time being.

 

[Henkka]

Can we change the title as he will be staying for the time being.

Agree with this. Misleading.

 

[Shaman464]

Still looking lost most of the time. I think they should send him down, but, again, Holland proves too timid to make a hard choice.

 

[Henkka]

Still looking lost most of the time. I think they should send him down, but, again, Holland proves too timid to make a hard choice.

Anything Holland does, must be the wrong choise.

Sending kids to farm is wrong and keeping the kids up is wrong.

I'm fine to see this center experiment. In my eyes he could still projected as Plan A to be a defensive matchup center, more than this Plan B this offensive line winger. Like to see those matchup skills too.

 

[thefutures]

After 9 games has he looked more so as you guys expected? Im ignoring the point totals and have not seen a game. Is he showing good signs or is he just not quite ready? Thanks in advance

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Still looking lost most of the time. I think they should send him down, but, again, Holland proves too timid to make a hard choice.

Sending him down was the easy choice. I completely agree with keeping him up. I would have liked them to say they are loaning him to Team Canada for the WJC, but I guess we will wait on that.

Not burning a year of his ELC and sticking by developing him at the NHL level was the hard choice. Glad they made it as in my opinion it is the right one.