TV: The Expanse (Season 5)

[Osprey]

He's a narcissist and displaying pretty typical narcissist behavior.

Yeah, that, too. I was referring to the job that he did on Filip: humiliating him and then immediately building him back up so that he left proud and grateful. It was Manipulation 101. He had some good comebacks with Naomi, as well, though she's too smart to fall for it. The writing (and acting) has been really good. I loathe him more than most villains.

 

[chicagoskycam]

Yeah, that, too. I was referring to the job that he did on Filip: humiliating him and then immediately building him back up so that he left proud and grateful. It was Manipulation 101. He had some good comebacks with Naomi, as well, though she's too smart to fall for it. The writing (and acting) has been really good. I loathe him more than most villains.

The scene where he was in the airlock a while back, negotiating for his life was outstanding. I even thought then, this actor is too good to kill off already. I need to go back and watch it.

 

[Osprey]

I watched Episode 8. It easily could've been titled "Naomi's Bad Day." She's been getting all of the most dramatic and emotional scenes this season. I think that it's safe to say that this season has been all about her.

I really liked how nothing was explained in the episode. We had to figure out what Naomi was doing as she was doing it or after. If this were Star Trek: Discovery, the writers would've had Burnham talking to herself out loud the whole time in order to hold the audience's hand and explain to them at every step how smart she is.

 

[RobBrown4PM]

I watched Episode 8. It easily could've been titled "Naomi's Bad Day." She's been getting all of the most dramatic and emotional scenes this season. I think that it's safe to say that this season has been all about her.

I really liked how nothing was explained in the episode. We had to figure out what Naomi was doing as and after she was done doing it. If this were Star Trek: Discovery, the writers would've had Burnham talking to herself out loud the whole time in order to hold the audience's hand and explain to them at every step how smart she is.

It was really well done. In the books, we get the benefit of internal monologue to know what she is doing. Surprisingly, there was very little that was changed from the books for this episode.

 

[chicagoskycam]

I watched Episode 8. It easily could've been titled "Naomi's Bad Day." She's been getting all of the most dramatic and emotional scenes this season. I think that it's safe to say that this season has been all about her.

I really liked how nothing was explained in the episode. We had to figure out what Naomi was doing as and after she was done doing it. If this were Star Trek: Discovery, the writers would've had Burnham talking to herself out loud the whole time in order to hold the audience's hand and explain to them at every step how smart she is.

That's the best part of this show.

 

[HanSolo]

Man...I am really loving Camina's side story and performance this season. Being put into an impossible situation like this and having her finally boil over with "how much more shit do I have to swallow." She's making a strong case for my second favorite Expanse character. The episode was good but felt like a ramp up to the Finale which...honestly I felt most plot threads outside Camina's felt like they could've done a bit more with prepping them for the season's endgame. Holden, Alex and Bobbie are still woefully unprepared for the trap and the closest they came to wising up to what might happen is Holden being slightly skeptical. Amos is so far removed from the Roci crew at this point I don't even know how he could possibly end up figuring into the coming conflict (though the escape from Earth was a satisfying conclusion to that side quest). Yeah Avesarala is back in charge but Earth is completely in the dark about what Inaros has been up to since the Asteroids. Not a huge complaint, I just worry that they may have to rush everybody into the endgame for what should be a pretty big finale.

As a side note, been rewatching the series with my brother who I've finally convinced to give the show a try. Season 2 is when things start getting really good for the show. But it still seems really obvious how much better Amazon's production teams are. Everything from a filmmaking perspective is greatly improved on in S4 and 5. Shot framing, color composition, set design, costume design, pacing...everything. I mean the SyFy days had a lot of strengths but part of me wishes I could've seen this show with this level of production quality from the first episode on.

 

[chicagoskycam]

They are really slow playing a couple of these storylines. Thank god Amos is off Earth - a really nice long shot during their battle to get to the ship. Amos as captain for a bit , I doubt they stay on Luna very long.

Hopefully the payoff will be worth it. I have this horrible feeling they might kill off Camina - that would suck

 

[HanSolo]

They are really slow playing a couple of these storylines. Thank god Amos is off Earth - a really nice long shot during their battle to get to the ship. Amos as captain for a bit , I doubt they stay on Luna very long.

Hopefully the payoff will be worth it. I have this horrible feeling they might kill off Caminna - that would suck

I'd be pissed. I really feel like they're ramping up to having Camina have her own huge moment. This is the first time she's had her own self contained narrative and to have her be beaten down like this over and over again, it would feel too much like trying to mimic the spirit of Game of Thrones to just kill her off. To me she feels like the spiritual successor of Johnson and Ashford.

 

[chicagoskycam]

. Yeah Avesarala is back in charge but Earth is completely in the dark about what Inaros has been up to since the Asteroids. Not a huge complaint, I just worry that they may have to rush everybody into the endgame for what should be a pretty big finale.
.

I feel like they have went back and forth with Avasarala too much during the series in terms of the leading and then getting pushed out. Her character is probably better when she is opposing voice to leadership, however, I did not like the new guy in charge at all. Sec-Gen Gillis was perfect for the role. I kind of wish they could bring back Errinwright. I always felt like they were missing the boat with an equal to Avasarala on Mars.

 

[Jussi]

This is beginning to look like that the redemption arc for Clarissa Mao will be that she takes out Marco Inaros and his crew (and possibly herself) with Camina somehow involved.

 

[chicagoskycam]

This is beginning to look like that the redemption arc for Clarissa Mao will be that she takes out Marco Inaros and his crew (and possibly herself) with Camina somehow involved.

I just want Camina to space Blue lipstick so bad!! Her restraint has been tough to watch.

 

[Tawnos]

Good on Avasarela standing up for the right thing in that episode. First time I’ve actually liked her in the show. Good on Clarissa for doing the same.

Those were the best parts of the episode.

 

[HanSolo]

Good on Avasarela standing up for the right thing in that episode. First time I’ve actually liked her in the show. Good on Clarissa for doing the same.

Those were the best parts of the episode.

Avaserala has always fought for the right thing, she just employed duplicity out of necessity of the position of power she holds to achieve those ends.

I just want Camina to space Blue lipstick so bad!! Her restraint has been tough to watch.

I did like how her lover character (forgot her name) insisted on her giving up her gun though. Like she knew Camina was minutes from killing that woman.

 

[Tawnos]

Avaserala has always fought for the right thing, she just employed duplicity out of necessity of the position of power she holds to achieve those ends.

Not exactly, particularly not true of her in season 4, where she was on the wrong side of the exploration issue and was wrong about how she ran her campaign (opinion of course). But also, this is the first time there was nothing to be gained by doing the right thing... at least from her point of view in that specific moment. Of course, she did end up gaining from it, but she didn’t know that would happen and it wasn’t an attempt to make that happen.

The duplicity was why I never liked her. I don’t find the “necessity” to be a reasonable justification for it. I should be clear, I did like her character in the sense that I thought she was interesting. I just didn’t really like her as a person, and this was the first time I did.

I have read the first three books, and did find her more likable there.

 

[HanSolo]

Not exactly, particularly not true of her in season 4, where she was on the wrong side of the exploration issue and was wrong about how she ran her campaign (opinion of course). But also, this is the first time there was nothing to be gained by doing the right thing... at least from her point of view in that specific moment. Of course, she did end up gaining from it, but she didn’t know that would happen and it wasn’t an attempt to make that happen.

The duplicity was why I never liked her. I don’t find the “necessity” to be a reasonable justification for it. I should be clear, I did like her character in the sense that I thought she was interesting. I just didn’t really like her as a person, and this was the first time I did.

I have read the first three books, and did find her more likable there.

Actually yeah, I kinda spaced on her season 4 arc. But, never really said she was perfect. However as far as the duplicity with the Eros situation goes, it was kind of the only card she had to play to get things done. Here, with the potential destruction of Ceres there was really not much she could do. The new SecGen was going ahead with retaliatory strikes that put civilian lives at risk. Resigning in disgust was just about the last card she could play in that situation. Even if it didn't sway the SecGen, at least she could live without Ceres on her conscience.

 

[Osprey]

Good on Avasarela standing up for the right thing in that episode. First time I’ve actually liked her in the show. Good on Clarissa for doing the same.

Those were the best parts of the episode.

I thought that they were the worst. I dislike when writers make characters morally righteous to meet our approval and then reward them for it. Especially in this show, there should be less black and white and more grey, IMO, such as characters doing the wrong things for the right reasons and the right things for the wrong reasons. For example, Inaros attacking Earth is a terribly wrong thing to do, but there's also a feeling that there may be something to his and the other Belters' grievances. I like that bit of complexity. When Clarissa invited all of those people in and acted as peacemaker during the standoff, though, my eyes rolled. She doesn't need to save dozens of people at a time to drive home for us that she's Amos' conscience.

Besides those things, I liked the episode.

 

[Tawnos]

I thought that they were the worst. I dislike when writers make characters morally righteous to meet our approval and then reward them for it. Especially in this show, there should be less black and white and more grey, IMO, such as characters doing the wrong things for the right reasons and the right things for the wrong reasons. For example, Inaros attacking Earth is a terribly wrong thing to do, but there's also a feeling that there may be something to his and the other Belters' grievances. I like that bit of complexity. When Clarissa invited all of those people in and acted as peacemaker during the standoff, though, my eyes rolled. She doesn't need to save dozens of people at a time to drive home for us that she's Amos' conscience.

Besides those things, I liked the episode.

There’s more than enough grey in the series, and lots of people doing the right thing and failing, which made this a breath of fresh air.

 

[chicagoskycam]

Good on Avasarela standing up for the right thing in that episode. First time I’ve actually liked her in the show. Good on Clarissa for doing the same.

Those were the best parts of the episode.

This has pretty much been her character the entire show but with an obvious allegiance to Earth. She has always been opposed to acts of war for the most part.

Anyone else get Naomi's distress call stuck in their head for hours after that episode, aholes! lol

 

[Tawnos]

This has pretty much been her character the entire show but with an obvious allegiance to Earth. She has always been opposed to acts of war for the most part.

Anyone else get Naomi's distress call stuck in their head for hours after that episode, aholes! lol

I think for me, I kind of feel a bit of The Good Place philosophy about her. Her motives are normally corrupt, so doing the right thing isn’t actually good.

 

[chicagoskycam]

I think for me, I kind of feel a bit of The Good Place philosophy about her. Her motives are normally corrupt, so doing the right thing isn’t actually good.

I don't see her that way actually, I think when her motives can be construed as "corrupt", she's doing it in the best interest of earth. Of course, she is basically a politician so that's messy at times, especially when the election was going on. This show does an excellent job with strong female characters that are not forced IMO.

She was the best with Cotyar, I really liked that guy. Too bad he didn't last long.

 

[Osprey]

There’s more than enough grey in the series, and lots of people doing the right thing and failing, which made this a breath of fresh air.

To me, the show is a breath of fresh air because it doesn't do that often. There are many other shows that do and are more idealistic than realistic. To each his own.

 

[Blender]

Avasarala is an "ends justify the means" type of person, but she's not bloodthirsty or indifferent to suffering either. In the case of last night, killing thousands or millions of Belter civilians would only radicalize the living Belters to Inaros' cause, it wouldn't achieve the objective she wants. If striking a target helped achieve her goal, she'd do it and if one appears she will do it, but she's never been shown to be in favor of blunt and thoughtless retaliation.

 

[Tawnos]

I don't see her that way actually, I think when her motives can be construed as "corrupt", she's doing it in the best interest of earth. Of course, she is basically a politician so that's messy at times, especially when the election was going on. This show does an excellent job with strong female characters that are not forced IMO.

She was the best with Cotyar, I really liked that guy. Too bad he didn't last long.

Hate to say it, but I think Avasarela had you guys all fooled: she's was no altruist. Things "in the interest of Earth" were really in the interest of herself first. From a certain point of view, if she does things in the best interest of Earth, what does it matter why, but I think the previous Avasarela would've been fine with the attack on Ceres if it aligned with her personal aims. "The ends justify the means", but the ends were her own ambitions, not the well-being of Earth. In her head, I'm sure those are the same, of course. Sometimes, they are.

I think now we have someone who is affected by the death of her husband and it changed her internal calculus. Nothing about what she did was about personal gain. She lays out legitimate reasons for why it is a truly bad idea, but I don't think her opposition to it results in a resignation without Arjun's death.

 

[Tawnos]

To me, the show is a breath of fresh air because it doesn't do that often. There are many other shows that do and are more idealistic than realistic. To each his own.

If you want realism, you need to include idealism too. Lots of idealism in the real world.

 

[Blender]

Hate to say it, but I think Avasarela had you guys all fooled: she's was no altruist. Things "in the interest of Earth" were really in the interest of herself first. From a certain point of view, if she does things in the best interest of Earth, what does it matter why, but I think the previous Avasarela would've been fine with the attack on Ceres if it aligned with her personal aims. "The ends justify the means", but the ends were her own ambitions, not the well-being of Earth. In her head, I'm sure those are the same, of course. Sometimes, they are.

I think now we have someone who is affected by the death of her husband and it changed her internal calculus. Nothing about what she did was about personal gain. She lays out legitimate reasons for why it is a truly bad idea, but I don't think her opposition to it results in a resignation without Arjun's death.

She's been opposed to an all out war through the whole series though, and that is what the new Secretary-General was proposing to start. This also wasn't the Belt of old, they are armed with Martian warships and stealth technology, so they are lunging into a war without a full understanding of the strategic situation while they are weakened, and may actually lose it. They know some part of the Martian government or military has been helping the Belt, so what happens if Mars throws in with the Belt when a war starts? I don't think anyone is pretending that Avasarala is a nice or altruistic person, but she's always been opposed to rushing into conflicts and has always preferred the long game.