TV: The Expanse (Season 5)

[Osprey]

Edit - quoted wrong person. Was supposed to be for @Osprey

I don't think that I've said anything about Holden this season. Maybe you're responding to an old post? Since you brought up the subject, though, I've never been much of a fan of him. He seems constantly moody and irritated. I'm not sure if it's the writing or the acting or both, but he doesn't project confidence or leadership, IMO. I have to remind myself that he's in charge, especially whenever he's on screen with Amos or Bobbie, who act like officers on a flagship in an interplanetary cold war. James and Naomi don't so much, especially when they're risking everything for personal reasons.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

That was a bit of a snoozer. I checked the time left several times in the second half. It's hard to believe that there's only one episode left to wrap everything up.

It's...um...what?

Wow. That sucks. Pretty much every episode this last season has just been a talky snoozefest, and it's over next week? Shit. Lame.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Season has been a complete waste of time.

 

[RobBrown4PM]

I find him a bit mopey and less optimistic than the book character.



I really like Avarasala and her characterization. It's definitely on point.

To be honest, the closest character to the books IMO was Alex Kamal.

Yeah, they transfered Alex over really well.

Too bad Cas had to go f*** things up.

 

[Jussi]

Ok, I'm satisfied with the finale. Though there was predictable Ring Entity Ex Machina and Filip escaping Pella.

 

[RobBrown4PM]

Ok, I'm satisfied with the finale. Though there was predictable Ring Entity Ex Machina and Filip escaping Pella.

Spoiler

Its exactly what happened in the books. I didn't like it then, and I didn't like it now.

That hard drop assault sequence was f***ing jam though.

 

[chicagoskycam]

It's most definitely the worst season if you can call it a full season. There were some good portions of it but it's obvious the show is poised to continue in some format. I think there is some truth to the rumor posted about a movie, otherwise, the scenes on the planet were pointless. I especially enjoyed the end around Holden/Drummer pulled on Avasalrala.

Spoiler

I really thought Clarissa would bite it this episode because she knew she was dying. The ending for Marcos was a bit lame. They could have spread this battle over a couple of episodes.

 

[RobBrown4PM]

It's most definitely the worst season if you can call it a full season. There were some good portions of it but it's obvious the show is poised to continue in some format. I think there is some truth to the rumor posted about a movie, otherwise, the scenes on the planet were pointless. I especially enjoyed the end around Holden/Drummer pulled on Avasalrala.

Spoiler

I really thought Clarissa would bite it this episode because she knew she was dying. The ending for Marcos was a bit lame. They could have spread this battle over a couple of episodes.

Marcos was never the big bad. He was a dumb, blunt tool, albeit a useful one at the time.

Spoiler

Duarte is the big bad. He used Marcos wants against him to get what he needed.

His plan couldn't have been better executed.

 

[HanSolo]

Finale was good but still falls flat considering how uneventful the season was. Normally I'd say please finish things properly, more Expanse but the season was just such a big flat nothing as a whole and I'm just left feeling empty about seeing more.

 

[HanSolo]

I think what really bugs me more than anything is how rushed the ending felt. Best example for me is with Camina. She slowly but surely became one of my two favorite characters on the show. And she got a fitting ending and payoff, but it doesn't feel earned. It felt incredibly rushed. It was executed with appropriate finality but you so quickly go from Camina being an opposition revolutionary belter who probably had half the Belt hating her to basically the leader of the Belt seeking to usher the Belters into a new age. And she still needs Holden to pull a fast one to secure that path forward.

That's not the only example of things being rushed but it's the one that sticks out to me as I keep contemplating the season.

 

[Ducks in a row]

This final season was a let down for me.

 

[RobBrown4PM]

I think what really bugs me more than anything is how rushed the ending felt. Best example for me is with Camina. She slowly but surely became one of my two favorite characters on the show. And she got a fitting ending and payoff, but it doesn't feel earned. It felt incredibly rushed. It was executed with appropriate finality but you so quickly go from Camina being an opposition revolutionary belter who probably had half the Belt hating her to basically the leader of the Belt seeking to usher the Belters into a new age. And she still needs Holden to pull a fast one to secure that path forward.

That's not the only example of things being rushed but it's the one that sticks out to me as I keep contemplating the season.

The belt is heavily disorganized. And relationships between groups change constantly. Once Marco had the wind taken out of his sails, it was only a matter of time before a lot of the stations, groups, colonies that declared for him, would accept a new, more beneficial and stable relationship.

 

[HanSolo]

The belt is heavily disorganized. And relationships between groups change constantly. Once Marco had the wind taken out of his sails, it was only a matter of time before a lot of the stations, groups, colonies that declared for him, would accept a new, more beneficial and stable relationship.

No I get that. But it would have been more satisfying if that was fleshed out more.

Last season set up Camina's personal vendetta against Marco very well so there's no real concerns about the why of her standing up against him. And in seasons before that, it's easy to understand why she'd have a different vision for the Belter people than Marco given her connections with Johnson and Ashford. What's missing is the opportunity to really flesh out the numbers starting to flock to Camina's cause and her growing prominence (if anything we get more development of Belters despising her as a lapdog for the Inners). It's alluded to in off hand exposition that her numbers are growing and factions of the Belt are growing weary of Marco, but by the last act of the finale she's just the de facto leader before being granted an elevated position and status by Holden. Her stand against the Earth and Mars leaders was performed and written well, but again...

We jump from seeing her as a fringe opposition presence at the start of the season, waste a bunch of time on her crew drama, then a little bit of development establishing her as a direct opposition force within the Belt by the fifth episode, one that Earth would actively seek out to turn the tide of the war. Then we get the war and in the span of minutes she goes from desperately trying to play an increasingly weak hand to ensure the equality of the Belter people only to have Holden play a short con job to give her the political power she needs just a few minutes later.

In the context of a synopsis, that's a fine turnout for Camina and the Belt (though I would have preferred seeing Camina find a way to ensure the status and position of the Belt without Holden) but as something to watch unfold narratively, it didn't feel very satisfying.

I understand they had to go with fewer episodes for budgetary reasons but it harmed the end product. The more I think about the finale, the more it bothers me.

 

[Osprey]

I think that it was a pretty good episode and finale, to the season as well as the series, though I'm more relieved than satisfied, due to the previous 5 episodes being so lackluster. They maybe could've just cut those 5 episodes down to 1 or 2 and tacked them and this finale onto Season 5, making that a 12 or 13 episode season. A whole new, shortened yet stretched out season feels like it was unnecessary.

Though the episode was pretty good, I do have some issues with it.

Spoiler

Marco's sudden death was awfully underwhelming after waiting 16 episodes for it and Filip's surprise escape was lame, not just because it seemed like a cop out, but because he somehow did it unnoticed. In fact, they teased three characters' deaths, only to make them all survive. Also, Drummer ended up doing nothing during the final battle except getting her ship nearly destroyed, so her reward at the end seemed a little unearned.

Finally, I kept waiting for the episode to make sense of the planet scenes. I still don't understand their purpose, much less why they were important enough to open every episode. If the finale explained it, maybe I was sneezing and missed it.

 

[Osprey]

Did anyone else notice that the assault team was mostly characters from other sci-fi franchises?

Edit: I was curious about the ones that I didn't recognize, so I looked it up and someone has already figured them all out...

Spoiler

Draper, B - Bobbie Draper, The Expanse
Burton, A - Amos Burton, The Expanse
Ackbar, G - Admiral Giar Ackbar, Star Wars
Idaho, D - Duncan Idaho, Dune
Quaid, D - Douglas Quaid, Total Recall
Rogan, A - Alex Rogan, The Last Starfighter
Bowman, D - David Bowman, 2001: A Space Odyssey
Nesmith, J - Jason Nesmith, Galaxy Quest
Shephard, C - Commander Shephard, Mass Effect
Buck, E - Edward Buck, Halo universe
Garrity, K - Kathleen Garrity, one of showrunner Naren Shankar's karate teachers
Ochiai, H - Hidy Ochiai, one of showrunner Naren Shankar's karate teachers
Ripley, E - Ellen Ripley, Alien
Vasquez, J - Jenette Vasquez, Aliens
Hicks, D - Dwayne Hicks, Aliens
Hudson, W - William Hudson, Aliens
Cooper, J - Joseph 'Coop' Cooper, Interstellar
Deckard, R - Rick Deckard, Blade Runner
Anderton, J - John Anderton, Minority Report
O'Neil, J - Jack O'Neil, Stargate
Levine, R - Rob Levine, one of showrunner Naren Shankar's karate teachers
Rico, J - Johnny Rico, Starship Troopers
Starr, L - Lucky Starr, Asimov or Lone Starr, Spaceballs
Thrace, K - Kara Thrace (Starbuck), Battlestar Galactica
Banks, L - Louise Banks, Arrival
Connor, S - Sarah Connor, The Terminator
Flynn, K - Kevin Flynn, TRON
Stone, R - Ryan Stone, Gravity
Neary, R - Roy Neary, Close Encounters of the Third Kind
Riker, W - William Riker, Star Trek: The Next Generation

Credit goes to reddit user scorp123_CH

 

[chicagoskycam]

Did anyone else notice that the assault team was mostly characters from other sci-fi franchises?

Edit: I was curious about the ones that I didn't recognize, so I looked it up and someone has already figured them all out...

Spoiler

Draper, B - Bobbie Draper, The Expanse
Burton, A - Amos Burton, The Expanse
Ackbar, G - Admiral Giar Ackbar, Star Wars
Idaho, D - Duncan Idaho, Dune
Quaid, D - Douglas Quaid, Total Recall
Rogan, A - Alex Rogan, The Last Starfighter
Bowman, D - David Bowman, 2001: A Space Odyssey
Nesmith, J - Jason Nesmith, Galaxy Quest
Shephard, C - Commander Shephard, Mass Effect
Buck, E - Edward Buck, Halo universe
Garrity, K - Kathleen Garrity, one of showrunner Naren Shankar's karate teachers
Ochiai, H - Hidy Ochiai, one of showrunner Naren Shankar's karate teachers
Ripley, E - Ellen Ripley, Alien
Vasquez, J - Jenette Vasquez, Aliens
Hicks, D - Dwayne Hicks, Aliens
Hudson, W - William Hudson, Aliens
Cooper, J - Joseph 'Coop' Cooper, Interstellar
Deckard, R - Rick Deckard, Blade Runner
Anderton, J - John Anderton, Minority Report
O'Neil, J - Jack O'Neil, Stargate
Levine, R - Rob Levine, one of showrunner Naren Shankar's karate teachers
Rico, J - Johnny Rico, Starship Troopers
Starr, L - Lucky Starr, Asimov or Lone Starr, Spaceballs
Thrace, K - Kara Thrace (Starbuck), Battlestar Galactica
Banks, L - Louise Banks, Arrival
Connor, S - Sarah Connor, The Terminator
Flynn, K - Kevin Flynn, TRON
Stone, R - Ryan Stone, Gravity
Neary, R - Roy Neary, Close Encounters of the Third Kind
Riker, W - William Riker, Star Trek: The Next Generation

Credit goes to reddit user scorp123_CH

ha yeah a bunch of Alien characters in there

 

[chicagoskycam]

Marcos was never the big bad. He was a dumb, blunt tool, albeit a useful one at the time.

Spoiler

Duarte is the big bad. He used Marcos wants against him to get what he needed.

His plan couldn't have been better executed.

that was not obvious in the show at all but maybe it was in the books. This thread is about the tv show and they did an awful job getting that point across

 

[RobBrown4PM]

that was not obvious in the show at all but maybe it was in the books. This thread is about the tv show and they did an awful job getting that point across

The consequences of allowing Duartes rogue Martian force to set up shop on Laconia isn't fully understood until Persepolis Rising. To everyone, even the reader, what they're doing on Laconia and why they went there in the first place is a complete mystery until we get to Singh's PoV chapters in PR.

However, I would have liked a bit more time with Duarte. He's a brilliant prodigy in all things logistics. And he's a mix of Thrawn, Napoleon, Alexander the Great, and Augustus.

 

[Osprey]

ha yeah a bunch of Alien characters in there

Yeah, it's the only franchise represented more than once and there are four of them. Naren Shankar must be a big fan of Aliens. I also like that they're all in the same squad. Initially, I heard "Ripley" spoken out loud, which got my attention, so I paused it on that screen to see if there were any more Easter eggs and saw a whole carton of them.

that was not obvious in the show at all but maybe it was in the books. This thread is about the tv show and they did an awful job getting that point across

I didn't even realize that he was a villain, much less Marco's superior, until that video call 10 minutes before the end. I imagine that they did that on purpose because they were afraid of undermining Marco and the stakes.

 

[Jussi]

Did anyone else notice that the assault team was mostly characters from other sci-fi franchises?

Edit: I was curious about the ones that I didn't recognize, so I looked it up and someone has already figured them all out...

Spoiler

Draper, B - Bobbie Draper, The Expanse
Burton, A - Amos Burton, The Expanse
Ackbar, G - Admiral Giar Ackbar, Star Wars
Idaho, D - Duncan Idaho, Dune
Quaid, D - Douglas Quaid, Total Recall
Rogan, A - Alex Rogan, The Last Starfighter
Bowman, D - David Bowman, 2001: A Space Odyssey
Nesmith, J - Jason Nesmith, Galaxy Quest
Shephard, C - Commander Shephard, Mass Effect
Buck, E - Edward Buck, Halo universe
Garrity, K - Kathleen Garrity, one of showrunner Naren Shankar's karate teachers
Ochiai, H - Hidy Ochiai, one of showrunner Naren Shankar's karate teachers
Ripley, E - Ellen Ripley, Alien
Vasquez, J - Jenette Vasquez, Aliens
Hicks, D - Dwayne Hicks, Aliens
Hudson, W - William Hudson, Aliens
Cooper, J - Joseph 'Coop' Cooper, Interstellar
Deckard, R - Rick Deckard, Blade Runner
Anderton, J - John Anderton, Minority Report
O'Neil, J - Jack O'Neil, Stargate
Levine, R - Rob Levine, one of showrunner Naren Shankar's karate teachers
Rico, J - Johnny Rico, Starship Troopers
Starr, L - Lucky Starr, Asimov or Lone Starr, Spaceballs
Thrace, K - Kara Thrace (Starbuck), Battlestar Galactica
Banks, L - Louise Banks, Arrival
Connor, S - Sarah Connor, The Terminator
Flynn, K - Kevin Flynn, TRON
Stone, R - Ryan Stone, Gravity
Neary, R - Roy Neary, Close Encounters of the Third Kind
Riker, W - William Riker, Star Trek: The Next Generation

Credit goes to reddit user scorp123_CH

Yup, I noticed some familiar names there.

 

[RobBrown4PM]

Yeah, it's the only franchise represented more than once and there are four of them. Naren Shankar must be a big fan of Aliens. I also like that they're all in the same squad.


I didn't even realize that he was a villain, much less Marco's superior, until that video call 10 minutes before the end. I imagine that they did that on purpose because they were afraid of undermining Marco and the stakes.

Not boss, more like patron.

He provided Marco with the ships, rail guns, and guards for the ring station, but that's about it. Everything Marco and the free free navy did were orchestrated in house without the help of Laconia.

Duarte couldn't care less about Marco and his narrow minded vision.

He has God's to kill.

 

[HanSolo]

Did anyone else notice that the assault team was mostly characters from other sci-fi franchises?

Edit: I was curious about the ones that I didn't recognize, so I looked it up and someone has already figured them all out...

Spoiler

Draper, B - Bobbie Draper, The Expanse
Burton, A - Amos Burton, The Expanse
Ackbar, G - Admiral Giar Ackbar, Star Wars
Idaho, D - Duncan Idaho, Dune
Quaid, D - Douglas Quaid, Total Recall
Rogan, A - Alex Rogan, The Last Starfighter
Bowman, D - David Bowman, 2001: A Space Odyssey
Nesmith, J - Jason Nesmith, Galaxy Quest
Shephard, C - Commander Shephard, Mass Effect
Buck, E - Edward Buck, Halo universe
Garrity, K - Kathleen Garrity, one of showrunner Naren Shankar's karate teachers
Ochiai, H - Hidy Ochiai, one of showrunner Naren Shankar's karate teachers
Ripley, E - Ellen Ripley, Alien
Vasquez, J - Jenette Vasquez, Aliens
Hicks, D - Dwayne Hicks, Aliens
Hudson, W - William Hudson, Aliens
Cooper, J - Joseph 'Coop' Cooper, Interstellar
Deckard, R - Rick Deckard, Blade Runner
Anderton, J - John Anderton, Minority Report
O'Neil, J - Jack O'Neil, Stargate
Levine, R - Rob Levine, one of showrunner Naren Shankar's karate teachers
Rico, J - Johnny Rico, Starship Troopers
Starr, L - Lucky Starr, Asimov or Lone Starr, Spaceballs
Thrace, K - Kara Thrace (Starbuck), Battlestar Galactica
Banks, L - Louise Banks, Arrival
Connor, S - Sarah Connor, The Terminator
Flynn, K - Kevin Flynn, TRON
Stone, R - Ryan Stone, Gravity
Neary, R - Roy Neary, Close Encounters of the Third Kind
Riker, W - William Riker, Star Trek: The Next Generation

Credit goes to reddit user scorp123_CH

Ackbar sent me.