The Armchair GM Thread - LXXXIII

[Win One Before I Die]

Higgins has been one of the few bright spots over the last few seasons. He won't get traded.

 

[tantalum]

HIGGINS: 17G 22A 39P
For
KORPIKOSKI: 9G 16A 25P + 2nd 2015

Drop in production for the team. Korpikoski is already 28. He is what he is.

HIGGINS: 17G 22A 39P+ 2015 3rd
For
TALBOT: 7G 18A 25P
ELLIOTT: 1G 0A 1P (1GP) also very young

23 isn't very young. It's concerning that on a team lacking defensive depth he can't find his way as a regular in the NHL. His AHL numbers are less than impressive as well so this isn't an NHL thing but a since he turned pro thing. Talbot isn't very good.

HIGGINS: 17G 22A 39P+ 2015 2nd
For
N. FOLIGNO: 18G 21A 39P+ 2015 3rd

This is fine. I like Foligno. But why the heck does Columbus do this? He's arguably as good if not better and 4 years younger. A second means little to them given they want to be playoff bound year after year and Foligno likely gives them a better chance for that moving forward.

HIGGINS: 17G 22A 39P
For
BOURNIVAL: 7G 7A 14P also very young +2015 2nd

Not enough data on Bournival to think he's an upgrade so it's likely a downgrade at this time. Bournival shouldn't be getting a good roster player as value. Even with the "hmmm this is uneven so I'll throw in a pick" 2nd rounder.

HIGGINS: 17G 22A 39P
For
BRUNNER: 11G 14A 25P +2015 3rd

HIGGINS: 17G 22A 39P
For
STALBERG: 8G 10A 18P +2015 2nd +2016 3rd

No just no. Brunner at this point is still an unknown. A 28 year old unknown. But he's not likely to be better than Higgins ever.

HIGGINS: 17G 22A 39P 2015 6th
For
BROUWER: 25G 18A 43P

I can understand this one somewhat but I wonder why one would do it. Similar age. Similar utility but I think Higgins is better....and a million cheaper.

And yes some of the stats don't match but you would get picks and still be competitive. Also this is Higgins' third best season so his value wouldn't even be that low.

You're right the stats don't match. You are typically taking goals out of the lineup with the downgrades proposed all because of "picks". The canucks aren't in desperate need of picks right now. They are in desperate need of keeping the picks they have (IMO) AND building quality depth. Higgins is a big part of quality depth. It makes no sense to move him. It really doesn't unless someone at the deadline is willing to give you a good first round pick for him.

So yes if one can get a Gaustad or better stupid return look at moving him. Yes trade him if he is actively beeing bumped out of a job by youth. But not a trade for garbage just to get a non-first round pick. That doesn't make any sense.

 

[Nuckles]

Some please just answer this question before we continue: Why is it a good idea to trade Chris Higgins?

Because apparently only real Canucks fans support tanking and that means trading away any of our decent players.


And joustinboy123, I'm so glad you decided that this deserved its own thread instead of posting in the armchair GM thread.

 

[Domecile]

Only way I see value in trading Higgins would be if we got a 1st round pick back. No team is going to do that unless there's more pieces included from VAN, and maybe even taking on a salary or two.

 

[Domecile]

Because apparently only real Canucks fans support tanking and that means trading away any of our decent players.

Where was this even implied?

 

[Nuckles]

Where was this even implied?

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1721365

 

[Domecile]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1721365

Yikes same guy too.


*Hides under rock*

 

[BROCK HUGHES]

Hi all, after my last post went so well I'm going with something that won't end As bad. I was just wondering what you would think would be a fair deal for trading Higgins to a team that needs some offensive help while staying competitive. I made a couple of trades and I want you to say which one is the best or you can write your own. So here they are:

AZ
Lauri Korpikoski 2015 2nd/2015 3rd

COL
+2015 2nd for Max Talbot, Stefan Elliott

CBJ
+2015 2nd for Nick Foligno +2015 3rd

MTL
2015 2nd Michael Bournival

NJ
Brunner 2015 3rd

NSH
2015 2nd Viktor Stalberg, 2016 3rd

WSH
Troy Brouwer 2015 6th

EDIT: Or wing help

This team is lacking goal production,and they also need a puck moving defencemen,but we fill this team with checking centers,and 3rd and 4th liners,sorry but if it takes Higgins to address a need for this team,,i am all in.His spot is easily replaced.

 

[WonderTwinsUnite]

The only trades I'd consider is the COL and NJ deals. I think Brunner is better than what he showed last year. Does Talbot play wing?

 

[joustinboy123]

The only trades I'd consider is the COL and NJ deals. I think Brunner is better than what he showed last year. Does Talbot play wing?

IMO the Foligno is the best but it's the least likely to go through

 

[bossram]

Only way I would trade Higgins is if we're out of it at the deadline. Even then, he along with Sedins are the veterans I would like to keep around during a rebuild. He likes it here, stay in VAV long into the offseason and always works hard. Good example for younger players.

I'd want a 2nd + decent prospect. Maybe late 1st.

 

[NoShowWilly]

IMO the Foligno is the best but it's the least likely to go through

so you are trading higgins just for the sake of trading players. Foligno is 27 the first month of the season. We are losing our 2nd and a serviceable player for potentially 1 year of a player.

We'll flip him for a worse 2nd at the deadline when we suck, right?

 

[WhiteCurse]

Only way Higgins gets traded is if we have no shot at the playoffs by the deadline. Then it will be for picks or youth probly not a roster player

 

[biturbo19]

I don't mind it, but the Canucks have enough two way projected guys...

Horvat, McCann, Cassels, Gaunce.. that's a good core of two way guys. We have Shinkaruk and Virtanen who are a pretty good step forward, but what the Canucks need is that #1 high skill center prospect and that #1 D prospect. Need a player to replace Henrik badly. I'm getting confident that the #1 D prospect just may be Hutton. Let's hope.

Honestly you can't have enough two-way guys in the NHL. Even the teams with superstar players find is necessary to have those players have at least a decent two-way game. Really to your point of needing a #1 D-man...I agree. There is also not a #1 D-man in the league that isn't also very good in his own end. That pure offense #1 guy simply doesn't exist on successful teams or is extremely rare (note that Karlsson taking a big step back defensively is very much an issue for Ottawa. Especially when he was simply OK to being with).

The same can be said with #1 centers. Really the reason is that you need those guys to dominate possession game in and game out and you can no longer do that without having good defensive acumen in todays NHL.

But perhaps people are thinking two-way means a 50 point guy who is also good in his own zone. I agree with that...you can't have a team made up of that. But you need your 70+ point guys also to be two-way players to be successful. At least in my ever so humble opinion.

Exactly this.

The top-tier, powerhouse teams (especially in the West) all have very good two-way #1Cs.

Two-way player often seems to have this negative stigma attached when it's used to describe a prospect or player, which is at times misleading and unfair. It often gets used as a synonym for "low upside".

The reality is that we obviously do eventually need to find a 70pt+ type "#1C" and some "top-pairing" defenders to replace Henrik Sedin, and Dan Hamhuis et al. And those don't look like things that we have in our prospect pool right now...but you can't force it by taking one-dimensional players just because they're "pure skill", solely on the basis of needing a #1C for example. There seems to be a strong tendency here to project "one dimensional" as "high upside", which doesn't strictly translate to reality all that reliably. The absence of a defensive conscience or physical play doesn't inherently grant a player "higher upside", though it often seems to be projected that way around here.

Sadly, we may not have an opportunity to grab that true "blue chip" #1C prospect until the Sedins, Hamhuis, Bieksa, etc. have moved on or become clearly no longer top line players/top pairing defencemen/etc. It's pretty rare to see a team with a current #1C and a top defensive pairing managing to be bad enough to draft in the top-5 sort of range where those surefire bonafide superstar #1C/D type prospects tend to be found.

What does sometimes happen...is those teams stumbling upon a prospect who wildly exceeds expectations elsewhere in the draft (later in the 1st round, the top of the 2nd round, the 7th round), or in pulling off a swindle of a trade for a young player/prospect who is pushed out of their organization for whatever reasons. And i think that's pretty clearly the approach we're going to have to be hoping for in the next few years. And either that works out and we stumble upon our #1C somewhere unexpected in the draft, or we don't...and when the Sedins ride off into the sunset taking our entire 1st line with them, there's a good chance our lack of a true "1st line" pushes us down the standings to the point where we have our shot at drafting a "bluechip" #1C prospect. It's the ebb and flow of the league, and trying to swim against the tide seems generally pretty futile.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Only way Higgins gets traded is if we have no shot at the playoffs by the deadline. Then it will be for picks or youth probly not a roster player

Could see that happening and it will be pretty clear, like now, that we aren't making the playoffs next year.

then again we need to keep some veterans here in what surely is a transition phase for the team right now.

Looking at our roster are we better than last year, and the 8 teams that did make the playoffs and both Nashville and Winnipeg are also standing in the way.

Calgary is also a dark horse "breakout" team but probably won't make the playoffs either even with a big jump.

 

[WhiteCurse]

Could see that happening and it will be pretty clear, like now, that we aren't making the playoffs next year.

then again we need to keep some veterans here in what surely is a transition phase for the team right now.

Looking at our roster are we better than last year, and the 8 teams that did make the playoffs and both Nashville and Winnipeg are also standing in the way.

Calgary is also a dark horse "breakout" team but probably won't make the playoffs either even with a big jump.

Agreed, might not even be Higgins. The way i see it is if we are not in the hunt for the playoffs by the deadline we may look to move a player or two, Higgins Hansen Burrows ect. Im also expecting one of are kids in the AHL to make this possible by having a good start and deserving to move up

 

[Sharpshooter]

Why not?

Meat and Potatoes.

 

[Ventana*]

3 trades to beef up this team to contend for the cup this season.

Horvart, Corrado, 2nd for Jagr

Subban, That Russian d-man, Hansen, 2015 1st for Gallagher, Eller

Burrows, Sbisa, Shinkaruk, 2016 1st for Tyler Myers and Tyler Ennis

instant cup:

Sedin - Sedin - Jagr

Ennis - Bonino - Vrbata

Higgins - Eller - Gallagher

Matthias - Richardson - Dorsett

Edler - MYERS

Hamhuis - Tanev

Stanton - Bieska

MILLER

LACK

 

[Virtanen2Horvat]

3 trades to beef up this team to contend for the cup this season.

Horvart, Corrado, 2nd for Jagr

Subban, That Russian d-man, Hansen, 2015 1st for Gallagher, Eller

Burrows, Sbisa, Shinkaruk, 2016 1st for Tyler Myers and Tyler Ennis

instant cup:

Sedin - Sedin - Jagr

Ennis - Bonino - Vrbata

Higgins - Eller - Gallagher

Matthias - Richardson - Dorsett

Edler - MYERS

Hamhuis - Tanev

Stanton - Bieska

MILLER

LACK

Are you a troll?

Anyways I would never move Horvat + Corrado + 2nd for Jagr. I would keep all the young players here. Maybe move one if one position is overfilled like 2/3C. It could be your personal opinion.

 

[bossram]

3 trades to beef up this team to contend for the cup this season.

Horvart, Corrado, 2nd for Jagr

Subban, That Russian d-man, Hansen, 2015 1st for Gallagher, Eller

Burrows, Sbisa, Shinkaruk, 2016 1st for Tyler Myers and Tyler Ennis

instant cup:

Sedin - Sedin - Jagr

Ennis - Bonino - Vrbata

Higgins - Eller - Gallagher

Matthias - Richardson - Dorsett

Edler - MYERS

Hamhuis - Tanev

Stanton - Bieska

MILLER

LACK

Can't tell if serious.

 

[medhatcanuck]

3 trades to beef up this team to contend for the cup this season.

Horvart, Corrado, 2nd for Jagr

Subban, That Russian d-man, Hansen, 2015 1st for Gallagher, Eller

Burrows, Sbisa, Shinkaruk, 2016 1st for Tyler Myers and Tyler Ennis

instant cup:

Sedin - Sedin - Jagr

Ennis - Bonino - Vrbata

Higgins - Eller - Gallagher

Matthias - Richardson - Dorsett

Edler - MYERS

Hamhuis - Tanev

Stanton - Bieska

MILLER

LACK

Wow. That is all.

 

[Ventana*]

Wow. That is all.

I'm glad you like it

 

[NYVanfan]

Are you a troll?

Anyways I would never move Horvat + Corrado + 2nd for Jagr. I would keep all the young players here. Maybe move one if one position is overfilled like 2/3C. It could be your personal opinion.

i wouldn't move a 2nd alone for Jagr.
if we want an old scorer we can just sign Ray Whitney
your first trade is absurdly lopsided against us, the other two for us (actually the latter 2 are not as lopsided with us giving away all our firsts, but equally pointless and undesirable)

I am actually coming around to the view that if we really are embracing change, we should trade Burrows. I've loved the guy, but as w Kesler moving on, it might be time. He is going to be overpaid for what he brings, but more importantly, it would signal the final phase of shedding the undesirable image -- the biting, pulling hair, diving, tumbleweeding, whining ... we got rid of Lappy, and then Kes ...might be time for Burr to go too...

I am still holding onto the pipedream of Burr, Hansen, Shink, Lack or Mark for Kane (would give a first if we had to...)

 

[Virtanen2Horvat]

Del Zotto sucks.

He's a case of the Cam Barker '40 point mirage' where a bad defender puts up 40 points because he was used on the #1 PP unit for an entire year and scored 20 points there ... and then everyone thinks he's great for the next 5 years.

Undersized, soft, poor defensively. Was carried by his defensive partner for a couple years.

The shadows of Cam Barker.

 

[ginner classic]

3 trades to beef up this team to contend for the cup this season.

Horvart, Corrado, 2nd for Jagr

Subban, That Russian d-man, Hansen, 2015 1st for Gallagher, Eller

Burrows, Sbisa, Shinkaruk, 2016 1st for Tyler Myers and Tyler Ennis

instant cup:

Sedin - Sedin - Jagr

Ennis - Bonino - Vrbata

Higgins - Eller - Gallagher

Matthias - Richardson - Dorsett

Edler - MYERS

Hamhuis - Tanev

Stanton - Bieska

MILLER

LACK

Post of the year for sure.


/boards