The all-purpose: Alexander Wennberg thread

[Viqsi]

Wennberg could very well be the next William Karlsson, but it's not happening here (unless St. Louis can get inside his head)

Getting the same impression, unfortunately.

 

[Sore Loser]

In the public interest, here is what it would take for me to join in the "we need to get rid of Wennberg" chorus:

I want a guarantee - an iron-clad, untouchable, if-you-violate-it-I-can-shadowban-you* unflinching guarantee - from each and every poster here that if we do get rid of him, and he starts doing better elsewhere, that there will not be a single g-ddamned peep or even thought of whining about the front office, development, or any of the other umpteen billion little "but this is why we suck" nonsense bull**** arguments that made the post-expansion draft period a living hell.

If I can't get that guarantee from everyone here - and I legit mean every-single-one here - you're not going to sell me on this. I will accept the "he's tainted with horrible failure" position IF AND ONLY IF it is not in conjunction with the "we're cursed and we're doomed" position. I have less-than-zero tolerance for folks trying to have it both ways.


*: Technically, this isn't something I can or should ask, so I'm only half-serious on that part. But that's the only part I'm not dead serious on.

I'm confused, by us hating that Wennberg seems like a lost cause, we have to convince you that we won't bitch if he breaks out, then you'll allow the trade to happen?

Unfortunately I think it's out of all of our hands, at least in this instance. You may be right, we could trade him and he could follow the path of so many other failed CBJ development projects (Brassard, Voracek, to name a couple).

Or we could hang onto him and see what happens. He will either be groundbreaking for us (seriously, have we ever had a successful draft pick that has been a true project?)... or, he will be another failure that we hold onto for too long and trade for peanuts (Zherdev, Filatov, Picard, Brule).

There's simply no telling. The truth is, using him as a trade chip may be smart, if it allows for an immediate upgrade down the middle. If not, we're trading him at low value... which wouldn't be wise.

After all, how many people here were screaming for Ryan Murray to be traded last year? Imagine if we had, and he had broken out somewhere else this year. Last year he might have landed us a middle-round pick. Now he's playing as, maybe our most consistent defenseman, and in my opinion could be the biggest positive surprise of our season.

There are caveats to both sides. Damned if we do, damned if we don't. Our only real play is to hope that while he's here, he finds his way and produces more.

 

[Sore Loser]

I'm confused, by us hating that Wennberg seems like a lost cause, we have to convince you that we won't ***** if he breaks out, then you'll allow the trade to happen?

Unfortunately I think it's out of all of our hands, at least in this instance. You may be right, we could trade him and he could follow the path of so many other failed CBJ development projects (Brassard, Voracek, to name a couple).

Or we could hang onto him and see what happens. He will either be groundbreaking for us (seriously, have we ever had a successful draft pick that has been a true project?)... or, he will be another failure that we hold onto for too long and trade for peanuts (Zherdev, Filatov, Picard, Brule).

There's simply no telling. The truth is, using him as a trade chip may be smart, if it allows for an immediate upgrade down the middle. If not, we're trading him at low value... which wouldn't be wise.

After all, how many people here were screaming for Ryan Murray to be traded last year? Imagine if we had, and he had broken out somewhere else this year. Last year he might have landed us a middle-round pick. Now he's playing as, maybe our most consistent defenseman, and in my opinion could be the biggest positive surprise of our season.

There are caveats to both sides. Damned if we do, damned if we don't. Our only real play is to hope that while he's here, he finds his way and produces more.

Tl;dr: he's still a young guy and trading him now is selling low on a guy who could still be valuable. Only trade him if it's for an upgrade.

 

[Viqsi]

I'm confused, by us hating that Wennberg seems like a lost cause, we have to convince you that we won't ***** if he breaks out, then you'll allow the trade to happen?

I'm not the gatekeeper as to whether or not a trade happens. It's more along the lines of why I've been hesitant to endorse such a move for its own sake.

I don't mind trading him. I don't mind keeping him and trying to get him out of his seemingly endless funk. I think it a necessity that in either case we get a better, more reliable #2C as soon as is practical because he's not up to that job right now (if he ever will be). The only thing I mind is the possibility of folks kvetching about his performance now, and then turning right around and kvetching about the team and the organization if he does break out somewhere else.

It comes down to: is it "he sucks", or is it "we suck", or is it something more nuanced than either? Because these are different problems with different solutions. And ultimately I'd like to find the best play we've got, rather than just reacting out of frustration to his infuriating lack of progress.

 

[Sore Loser]

I'm not the gatekeeper as to whether or not a trade happens. It's more along the lines of why I've been hesitant to endorse such a move for its own sake.

I don't mind trading him. I don't mind keeping him and trying to get him out of his seemingly endless funk. I think it a necessity that in either case we get a better, more reliable #2C as soon as is practical because he's not up to that job right now (if he ever will be). The only thing I mind is the possibility of folks kvetching about his performance now, and then turning right around and kvetching about the team and the organization if he does break out somewhere else.

It comes down to: is it "he sucks", or is it "we suck", or is it something more nuanced than either? Because these are different problems with different solutions. And ultimately I'd like to find the best play we've got, rather than just reacting out of frustration to his infuriating lack of progress.

I think a lot of people forget that William Karlsson only scored 6 goals for us, then scored 40 elsewhere.

Not saying Wennberg is going to do that if we trade him. But, only two years ago he was our top center and a 59 point player.

Trading him now for whatever the return might be, is not a wise choice. In the end, at worst, he's a bottom-6 player who may produce on the power play occasionally. But he can also kill penalties and not hurt us that much defensively (save lack of effort plays like last night). Is he overpaid? Certainly, considering his current production.

But like you're saying, imagine if he breaks out offensively again, and we're left holding a couple of mid/late round picks.

The only play here is to hope he gets it together.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I think a lot of people forget that William Karlsson only scored 6 goals for us, then scored 40 elsewhere.



The only play here is to hope he gets it together.

So wrong.

He's been in a 2 year "slump". His situation is so different than Karlsson that it's absurd to make a comparison. Wennberg has been on the first line, second line, PP.

The more relevant comparisons are to Steve Mason and Umberger. Umberger was shot (thanks Hextall for our few years of Hartnell!) and Mason had a few year revival when he had a change of scenery.

Wennberg has had more than ample opportunity to get his act together here. He's on a Ville Leino career path now. There isn't selling low on him. He's not worth anything beyond being a decent PKer. PKers are a dime a dozen. That's his only worth.

If he does has a revival elsewhere, then so what. Mason was killing the team and Wennberg is as well. What he does elsewhere is irrelevant. Addition by subtraction.

 

[NotWendell]

In the public interest, here is what it would take for me to join in the "we need to get rid of Wennberg" chorus:

I want a guarantee - an iron-clad, untouchable, if-you-violate-it-I-can-shadowban-you* unflinching guarantee - from each and every poster here that if we do get rid of him, and he starts doing better elsewhere, that there will not be a single g-ddamned peep or even thought of whining about the front office, development, or any of the other umpteen billion little "but this is why we suck" nonsense bull**** arguments that made the post-expansion draft period a living hell.

If I can't get that guarantee from everyone here - and I legit mean every-single-one here - you're not going to sell me on this. I will accept the "he's tainted with horrible failure" position IF AND ONLY IF it is not in conjunction with the "we're cursed and we're doomed" position. I have less-than-zero tolerance for folks trying to have it both ways.


*: Technically, this isn't something I can or should ask, so I'm only half-serious on that part. But that's the only part I'm not dead serious on.

There's nothing wrong with you having a different opinion than the majority of everyone else. I would love for you to be right.

 

[thebus88]

After all, how many people here were screaming for Ryan Murray to be traded last year? Imagine if we had, and he had broken out somewhere else this year. Last year he might have landed us a middle-round pick. Now he's playing as, maybe our most consistent defenseman, and in my opinion could be the biggest positive surprise of our season.

Crazy how quickly things change, eh?

Another reminder that Ryan Murray is outscoring Alexander Wennberg, and very well will be at the end of the year.

 

[GoJackets1]

The difference between Murray and Wennberg, IMO, is that Murray, while not living up to his potential, was not on any sort of downward spiral the way Wennberg is. Unfortunately I think concussions have taken their toll. Before Tom Wilson did him dirty in the playoffs last year, he was actually playing pretty great. That’s the last time I’ve seen him play like that.

As such, I don’t think this team can go anywhere as long as he’s our 2C. I’d be happy to keep him as a Sami Pahlsson type 3C, as long as we get a 2C upgrade, or trade him for a 2C upgrade.

Viqsi I can give you that guarantee you asked for. If Wennberg is traded and he returns to form, I’ll be happy for him, and accept that it probably wasn’t going to happen with us. If we can trade him in a package deal for a 2C improvement, by all means I would do it. For a mid round pick, I’d rather hold onto him.

 

[niflheim]

Alex is our little Zettenberg. He'll be fine.

 

[Ruudukkopupuset]

"In HIFK we had a player, Jan Caloun, who could score 2-3 goals in a game and I hapless pondered only how he could learn to play defence better."

Wennberg has for some reason been being forced to play beyond his game in which he already had surely surpassed most reasonable expectations, forming most potent lines with the likes of Hartnell and Vanek. I do not exactly see what Tortorella or the larger Blue Jackets have gotten out of the whole ordeal but "breaking things is important for him" as Sulo said of Juuso the Bear, the largest bear in Finland.

Do you not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed?

Erkka Westerlund, coaching Finland to bronze in Sotshi Olympics with meidän peli and of the Summanen-Westerlund-continuum, eliminated Russia 3-2 in their homesoil and made Teemu Selänne the MVP of the tournament. Despite Bruce Boudreau failing to anyway utilize Selänne in the NHL throughout that whole season. The line was Mikael Granlund–Aleksander Barkov–Teemu Selänne, although Barkov junior was injured already in first game and Jarkko Immonen, of Torpedo Nizni Novgorod took his place. To Westerlund the player plays the game.

 

[DJA]

So, is he getting traded? I am not sure who will take on his contract at his current performance. If we can recoup a second rounder and a prospect, it might be time to cut bait.

 

[Crede777]

How Wennberg responded to Dubois and Jenner taking the top 2 center spots from him:

 

[Mikos87]

So, is he getting traded? I am not sure who will take on his contract at his current performance. If we can recoup a second rounder and a prospect, it might be time to cut bait.

If you re-sign Duchene, I think it's a definite yes. I believe Dzingle will be the easiest. Wennberg to a team like COL/ARI for picks and cap space will facilitate your cap constraints.

I see Dubi getting bought out, and a Wennberg trade for a 2nd & a 3rd or 2 2nds, maybe a prospect thrown in of Duchene sticks around.

Would be great if Panarin did as well, but if he doesn't, with Wennberg traded without a cap hit coming back, and Dubi being bought out, you can sign another player on top of Dzingle and Duchene.

 

[majormajor]

If you re-sign Duchene, I think it's a definite yes. I believe Dzingle will be the easiest. Wennberg to a team like COL/ARI for picks and cap space will facilitate your cap constraints.

I see Dubi getting bought out, and a Wennberg trade for a 2nd & a 3rd or 2 2nds, maybe a prospect thrown in of Duchene sticks around.

Would be great if Panarin did as well, but if he doesn't, with Wennberg traded without a cap hit coming back, and Dubi being bought out, you can sign another player on top of Dzingle and Duchene.

I don't know if we can get all that without taking some salary back, or doing a bit of retention.

And I think the trade will be in the summer. Too complex this time of year because of the salary issue.

 

[EspenK]

At some point that $4.9 mm will become a salary cap issue. Duchene, Dzingel, Murray, Werenski to sign this year, maybe either/or B&B. Then Andy & PLD next year. Lots of $ going to be needed.

 

[Ice9]

Columbus isn't a place where the media rides a guy like a rented mule so you'd think it'd be perfect where a guy can refine his game, have some fun and enjoy a team apparently set for a decent run over the next few years.

Is AW that fragile mentally? I've always considered him to have the tools physically.

Scratches head...

 

[DJA]

Wennberg’s downfall just so happened to coincide with signing his fat contract. I don’t think it’s a coincidence. He stopped working / caring after he got paid.

 

[Viqsi]

Columbus isn't a place where the media rides a guy like a rented mule so you'd think it'd be perfect where a guy can refine his game, have some fun and enjoy a team apparently set for a decent run over the next few years.

Is AW that fragile mentally? I've always considered him to have the tools physically.

Scratches head...

We're not entirely sure. It's been attributed to stubbornness, but nobody really knows for sure.

 

[koteka]

If the thought is to trade Wennberg for picks, it makes more sense to keep him and make the trade for picks/prospects in the offseason. He is not a problem in the locker room. The only people who seem to have a problem with him are HF posters. Even if he is in the press box most nights, keep him for depth if we are all in this year. Someone will get hurt in the next couple of months.

 

[majormajor]

If the thought is to trade Wennberg for picks, it makes more sense to keep him and make the trade for picks/prospects in the offseason. He is not a problem in the locker room. The only people who seem to have a problem with him are HF posters. Even if he is in the press box most nights, keep him for depth if we are all in this year. Someone will get hurt in the next couple of months.

Well that and he's not an easy piece to move at the deadline. The summer return would be better.

He stopped working / caring after he got paid.

Make sure to keep this phrased as speculation, which is what it is. I've never heard an actual source criticize his commitment or professionalism, just HF posters speculating and making fun of him.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

Wennberg can't hold much value now.

3rd?

 

[MoeBartoli]

Wennberg can't hold much value now.

3rd?

That could be unfortunately. Me? I'd do it as part of an effort to clear out salaries that IMO are overpays that could be better used. Dubi and Nash are my two other prime targets.

The one caveat is if there is a coaching change as it might be worthwhile to see if a new voice can positively impact Wennberg.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

That could be unfortunately. Me? I'd do it as part of an effort to clear out salaries that IMO are overpays that could be better used. Dubi and Nash are my two other prime targets.

The one caveat is if there is a coaching change as it might be worthwhile to see if a new voice can positively impact Wennberg.

How would Wennberg for Scandella sound?

 

[MoeBartoli]

How would Wennberg for Scandella sound?

Meh...