The all-purpose: Alexander Wennberg thread

Discussion in 'Columbus Blue Jackets' started by Palm Tree, Oct 12, 2018.

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  1. Palm Tree

    Palm Tree Constant Nostalgiac. Die-hard CBJ fan.

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    Since there’s been so much division over anti-Wenny and pro-Wenny fans, I have made a fair judgement that we should have an ‘all-purpose’ talk thread for ANYTHING related to Wennberg. (Facts/opinions/suggestions... etc.).
     
    Last edited by moderator Double-Shift Lasse: Oct 12, 2018
  2. thebus88

    thebus88 18/19 Blue Jackets- Sustain the Unsustainability

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    LOCK IT UP NOW!!
     
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  3. major major

    major major Registered User

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    Just to clarify, is this in addition to all the other threads that are always about Wennberg or instead of them? :sarcasm:

    Just kidding, I know you can't control that. I would love it if not every thread was filled with Wennberg discussion. My opinion is that he hasn't been very good lately but nothing he's done is worth that much spilled ink one way or the other.
     
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  4. Palm Tree

    Palm Tree Constant Nostalgiac. Die-hard CBJ fan.

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    Alexander Wennberg’s stats thru 4 games;

    0 goals. (T-10th on team)
    2 assists. (T-3rd on team)
    +1. (T-5th on team)
    11/28 faceoffs, 28%. (Last)
    16:04 TOI. (6th of all FWDs)
     
  5. Palm Tree

    Palm Tree Constant Nostalgiac. Die-hard CBJ fan.

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    Ha. Ha.
     
  6. Palm Tree

    Palm Tree Constant Nostalgiac. Die-hard CBJ fan.

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    4 posts in 10 minutes at 1:45AM.
    Off to a blazing start, folks.

    Oh and @CBJWennberg10 just liked a @thebus88 post. This thread has the potential to be history in the making.
     
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  7. Crede777

    Crede777 Deputized

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    He is on pace for 20.5 shots this season. With his career average 9% shooting percentage, he is on track to score 1.8 goals.
     
  8. Cyclones Rock

    Cyclones Rock Registered User

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    But they could both be game winners. Even the .8 of a goal.

    This one trick pony crap will destroy his usefulness. I've seen it happen to a few other players. Once they stop shooting and become almost 100% predictable, then their assists begin to dry up as well.

    Last season his shots on goal per game was the lowest of his career. This season he has one SOG in 4 games. He is set in his ways. Torts tells him to shoot more and he doesn't. Teammates tell him to shoot more and he doesn't. He just "knows" more than everyone else. He's going to play "his game" no matter what. This is the type of stubborness and arrogance that would be apparent to those who are around him on a daily basis. Why in the world would you give a guy with these traits a contract which guaranteed him long term job security and lifetime financial security when you didn't have to (he had a few years of RFA left)?

    He's a 3rd line defensive center for all intents and purposes who scores goals at a 4th line center's pace. It's time to make him someone else's problem. Tying him and his $5 million per year with Panarin or Bob in a trade seems to be the best way to get out from under almost 5 more years of obligation to this increasingly ineffective player. He's in danger of becoming a Ville Leino/David Desharnais-type of player. Once they went south, they became pathetically bad.
     
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  9. Double-Shift Lasse

    Double-Shift Lasse Just post better

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    It's a riveting discussion, not at all dominated by posters being more concerned with other posters than with the topic.
     
  10. CBJFan827

    CBJFan827 Eklund's journalistic quality > Aaron Portzline's

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    I think these are valuable, interesting, and accurate comparisons. The difference is that neither of those players were ever very good defensive players, so when their offense fell off they had very little usefulness at the NHL level.

    I'm concerned about Wennberg's stall out on constant upward growth over last season (injuries) and then this year so far. It's still early, so I haven't given up he can turn a corner. Granted, who here would be unhappy if we get versus Colorado Wennberg 60% of the year?

    My frustrations with Wennberg are that the uber PP season ruined my expectations because I could see him achieving more than my moderate view of a solid 2nd line center in the Koivu mold if he just shot more/enough to be a threat to the other team. I (and others I feel) see he could do so much more with a small change to his game.

    I just ran some numbers using last season stats because I was curious how other "pass first" centers (Backstrom, Getzlaf, Barzal, Koivu, Granlund) shot the puck. Adjusting for GP, the group averaged 2.156 shots per game (Granlund bumped up the average with his ~2.5 v. 2.03-2.09 SPG for the other 3). Wennberg had 1.121 shots per game. This is not directed at CR, but instead at anyone who feels worn out by many calling for him to "shoot more." I want him to average another shot per game, enough to keep defenses honest and have his linemates open for his passes. That's all.
     
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  11. Johansen2Foligno

    Johansen2Foligno Registered User

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    I'm undecided. I will consider arguments made on here and then pick a side.
     
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  12. GoJackets1

    GoJackets1 Someday.

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    At this point, the best thing that could happen to Wennberg and the CBJ is if Stenlund takes his spot and runs with it.

    Lack of effort. He had a good game against the Avs, but the effort still isn’t there
     
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  13. Monk

    Monk Registered User

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    That explains why Torts keeps playing him, given his tendency to give players that don't try hard a lot of ice time. :sarcasm:
     
  14. Maylo

    Maylo ***k ****s

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    2016-2017 Wennberg, young and promising 1st line center, "He had 59 points and he's only 23!, He should fire his agent what steal of a contract!"
    2017-2018 Wennberg, fringe second line center when healthy.
    2018-2019 Wennberg - "He's good 3c can't ask for more."

    My problem with Weenberg, and this is again my specualtion and assumption, that he seems to be ok with that. There is no hunger or will to take his spot back. Also this is damn expensive 3C i might say.
     
  15. brianhatesu

    brianhatesu Registered User

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    that's my problem with him, is that he's content with being where is and not trying to better himself. He has the ability to be a first line center, it's just up to him if he wants to be one or not. As for damn expensive, Dubinsky makes more and I've never seen him more than a 3rd liner.
     
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  16. GoJackets1

    GoJackets1 Someday.

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    Yeah, which we all know is a bunch of bull****.
     
  17. voicing my opinion

    voicing my opinion within HFBoards rules

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    I'm curious what the Torts-effect is on this player. He's not the kind of coach every player can work with. It was very apparent during that Vancouver season for example, when consistently very good performers like Edler and Hansen completely collapsed under Torts, and then again bounced back to their usual self the following season after he was fired. They both actually had that same kind of "public shaming" moment on the bench with Torts that Wennberg also had last season. Sedins also nosedived under Torts, but that was probably more about Torts running them into the ground with ice time (same thing that's happening now with Panarin etc).

    But that personnel managing style Torts uses is just not for everyone, and maybe it irks specifically Scandinavians more than others (different cultures, upbringings etc).
     
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  18. major major

    major major Registered User

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    I share the understanding that he is struggling, possibly irrevocably. Wennberg is still a useful player, no doubt, but that might be restricted to a more defensive role.

    I'm not convinced that this is an unwillingness to get better. Torts is trying to get him some confidence. Wennberg himself acknowledged at the end of camp that he has a longstanding problem of not being aggressive enough offensively. His answers sometimes seem combative, but it's not necessarily better for a player's confidence to grovel in front of reporters, however much fans would like to see that.

    If you want to unload Wennberg, you don't even need to tie him to any other asset. There's clubs that would gladly take him now and give up something for him. That said - I would make such a move IFF I'm certain 1) Stenlund is ready to take the job, and 2) Wennberg's trade value as a Jacket is only going to go lower. The actual cost of the contract doesn't bear on any of the team's decisions for the near to medium term, we've got plenty of cap space.
     
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  19. Cyclones Rock

    Cyclones Rock Registered User

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    Not taken as one. LOL. My man man Desharnais gained a reputation as a bad defensive player early on, but-and I used to argue against this all the time on the Montreal hfboard-no one could produce any statistical evidence that he was. Had to say this.:laugh:

    You've gone to greater pains to look at shots per than I have on him. Here's a pair of real simple measures. Since Wennberg entered the league in 2014-15, he's ranked 107th in Shots on Goal among centers. I know that the listing of centers on nhl.com isn't the most accurate, but still. That's a 4th line center rate with top minutes.
    NHL.com - Stats


    Another way of looking at it. Last year on the CBJ, Wennberg was 10th among forwards with SOG despite having the 4th highest TOI. Calvert took 108 shots and Wennberg 74. Wennberg had 18 minutes vs. 13 for Calvert (much of that PP time vs SH time). Basically, a shorthanded specialist took 50% more shots with 2/3rds the ice time.

    NHL.com - Stats

    I was worried Jarmo would give him a $6 million per year deal and thought that the $4.9 was just about right. That opinion was based on a 59 points year and the expectation of a bit of growth in production. He's gone far beyond stalling in points production. He's been in a precipitous decline since midway last year. To me it's a question not so much of identifying a problem, but acting on a problem that's already been identified. As mm pointed out, he can be traded, but the window on that might be closing much more rapidly than many think. Pro Scouts are at every game and word travels fast in those circles.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
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  20. Monk

    Monk Registered User

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    Wennberg should be better, don't think anyone disagrees on that. I wasn't willing to write him off after last season, and I'm not willing to after 4 games this season. But yeah, he needs to be better especially re: consistency.
     
  21. Double-Shift Lasse

    Double-Shift Lasse Just post better

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    I think you're right with this. (Genuine) Questions (not necessarily for you):

    1) Is the problem that he doesn't shoot enough? Or is that just a symptom?

    2) Do we really think (as many have said) that Wennberg is Jarmo's pet and that Torts is being "forced" to play him accordingly?

    3) If the problem has been identified, what is the solution? Does the coaching staff seem to be employing one?
     
  22. EspenK

    EspenK Registered User

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    Good questions.
     
  23. Double-Shift Lasse

    Double-Shift Lasse Just post better

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    Thanks.

    1) A symptom of something else, perhaps the confidence thing you reference, but it wasn't intended to be specific to a cause.

    2) Then it'd be nice if we (as a forum) could refrain from the whole Jarmo and Torts coddling conspiracy talk then.

    3) That's a problem.
     
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  24. Cyclones Rock

    Cyclones Rock Registered User

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    Good questions.

    I think he's Jarmo's pet. Or at least one of them. In the sense that he has a lot invested in the player from many standpoints and wants to see him succeed to vindicate his draft position and the contract. Wennberg has gotten every opportunity to succeed on the ice. Whether or not that is FO driving this rather than coaching staff is, of course, a matter of speculation. There could be, and I just think it's natural, an affinity toward Wennberg by Jarmo based on shared Scandinavian heritage as well.

    I would guess that the problem has multiple reasons behind it. Wennberg "sees" himself as a playmaker first and foremost. He thinks the game that way and probably has for a long, long time. It's served him well. Pass first can also be viewed as being "unselfish". I look at it from another perspective. If one forces passes and essentially refuses to shoot in most circumstances, it's anything but unselfish.

    Because he thinks "pass first, second and third" he may not be even going to areas of the ice where he can take decent percentage shots. Next time I'm at a game live, I'll try to look for this as I've never really looked at his game from this perspective. I'm sure you will be waiting with baited breath for my findings:laugh:

    As most know on this board, I go to a ton of ECHL games. I used to see a lot of AHL games as well. Many players who have made it into the NHL and stuck who have gone through Cincinnati have adjusted their games significantly to be able to find their niche in the NHL. Antony Bitteto of Nashville was sent to Cincinnati from the Nashville AHL affiliate to work on his defensive spacing and breakout passing. He was projected to be more of an offensive-oriented defensman early in his career. He stuck to script and has had a spot (albeit tenuous) for several years with Nashville.

    The point is that the NHL often demands that a player make significant adjustments to their games to be successful in the NHL. I'm sure that the coaching staff has worked with him-we know Torts and teammates have made comments to the public regarding his lack of shooting. For Wennberg the change is a matter of degrees; not a wholesale different approach to the game. But if he's too stubborn or prideful to make changes, then so be it-trade him. Torts and Jarmo know the answer to this and if Wennberg won't change then Jarmo's job is to get rid of him promptly.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
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  25. major major

    major major Registered User

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    I have to say that Cyclones going after Wennberg's attitude and professionalism is pretty rich after his stance in the Johansen drama. Perhaps I'm just biased in the other direction, but it looks like to me like we're grasping for clues of what's going on in Wennberg's head, and it's possible he's just very low-confidence. Whereas it was blatantly obvious we had a serious character problem in Johansen.

    You're welcome to speculate but think about the gravity of some of these speculations.

    I think it's very bold indeed to say that Wennberg's ice time could be directed by the FO. If there's truth to that then we have a huge issue with the coach and FO that's more important than Wennberg's ice time.

    It's also not believable at this point that Jarmo favors Wennberg because of a Scandinavian bias. What's his highest drafted Finn at this point? And since when do Finns love Swedes? I don't know why you would bother speculating that.
     
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