Prospect Info: The 2020 - 2021 Prospects Thread

[RobertKron]

in no way do we have one of our worst prospect pools. overall depth? maybe.
first this write-up was done after the draft(why umberger was there) so they couldnt include prospects that had graduated. so youd be either looking to include the upcoming draft picks or go back to the start of the season and include hoglander etc.
even if we cut hoglander, and juolevi it still leaves us with rathbone, dipeitro who are still considered prospects even though they were with the team for a longer time.
theres no way we are worse.

looking at that link and what we have now.

bieksa - woo (top 4 rd)
umberger - 1st 2021 (umberger was just drafted when that list was created so ill put it as a comparable)
auld- dipietro (back-up, with starter hype)
chubarov - costmar (3rd/4th c)
fedorov - kunz (interesting but flaws)
vyrdaney - breeeesbois (dman who wont contribute to canucks)
reid- lind (interesting but prob fizzle out)
bell - karlsson(never gonna see either)
holden - jasek (2 players done with the canucks that capped out in ahl)
smith - zlodeyev (two players who had rumblings after draft, but project as 3rd liners if that)
komarniski - rafferty (2 high scoring d who will be gone)

still leaves us rathbone, podz, gadj, focht, this years draft class besides the 1st who dont match up with prospects we had back then.

yes i realize holden and smith were higher draft picks but they were always predicted as 3rd liners, so thats why i matched them with similar

This is absurd bordering on sad. You’re comparing what you hope happens with prospects now to what actually happened to players in the past, and even doing that many of your comparisons make little sense.

For example, if they currently had a kid who had just put up 2+ppg in the CHL in their D+2, you’d be screaming about them from the rooftops, not comparing them to a 22 year old with 7 NHL games.

At that point, Chubarov had played parts of two seasons in the NHL at age 20, was 1PPG in the minors, and you think he was an equivalent prospect to Arvid f***ing Costmar today? What the f***?

Vydarney had just played his rookie pro season at 19, and he was comparable to a 23 year old with 8 NHL games, little upside, who is running out of runway to get there?

A one year removed 23 oa who scored 90 points his D+1 is equivalent to a one year removed 175oa? Is this satire?

You also ignored Bryan Allen, and like, okay, you think it's unfair because Hoglander and Juolevi (why?) were graduated this year, while in 2000-01 the Canucks graduated the bloody Sedins, as well as Sopel and Druken who had just put up 15/15 in 55 gp during the dead puck era.

 

[dbaz]

This is absurd bordering on sad. You’re comparing what you hope happens with prospects now to what actually happened to players in the past, and even doing that many of your comparisons make little sense.

For example, if they currently had a kid who had just put up 2+ppg in the CHL in their D+2, you’d be screaming about them from the rooftops.

At that point, Chubarov had played parts of two seasons in the NHL at age 20, and you think he was an equivalent prospect to Arvid f***ing Costmar at this point? What the f***?

Vydarney had just played his rookie pro season at 19, and he was comparable to a 23 year old with 8 NHL games, little upside, who is running out of runway to get there?

A one year removed 23 oa who scored 90 points and ~1a per game is equivalent to a one year removed 175oa? Is this satire?

You also ignored Bryan Allen.

These are not what "I" hope pans out, these are based of projections made by media, or scout projects/ comments after their draft.
The reason people say that those years were so bad is because we know what happened to those players(as you mentioned).
But considering most were BUSTS, its logical to throw up players who PROJECT as a similar depth piece(ie smith who was drafted in the 1st round and projected as a 3rd liner, and then zlodeyev that media projected as a 3rd liner and then said should have been drafted in the 1st round on his +1season).
I am not saying they are the same player, ie Costmar and Chubarov are completely different but both fill that 3/4c role.
Its also good to remember the fact we have more of those pieces than weve had in some of worst years, knowing most bust, we have a greater chance of at least having something.
Yes these PROJECTED players like PODZ could bust. Which could turn this pool upside down, but with the ability to see international and junior level games compared to 20years ago it is also easier to be more sure about those top players in your prospect depth.

Chubarov 5 year pro, solid 3rd liner max 20 pts. Its what Costmar is PROJECTED to be, could it be wrong, yes? But Chubarov is not a player comparison to cry over, he was a 3rd liner with little to no offense.

Vydarney played 1 year in the Q.. same team and year that Brad Richards put up 186 pts(hello point inflation). Otherwise was a good skating/passing dman like Briesbois was seen as.

I passed over our Myers of years ago.. sorry. Lets say Rathbone as a top 4 d comparable, even tho completely different styles

 

[RobertKron]

These are not what "I" hope pans out, these are based of projections made by media, or scout projects/ comments after their draft.
The reason people say that those years were so bad is because we know what happened to those players(as you mentioned).
But considering most were BUSTS, its logical to throw up players who PROJECT as a similar depth piece(ie smith who was drafted in the 1st round and projected as a 3rd liner, and then zlodeyev that media projected as a 3rd liner and then said should have been drafted in the 1st round on his +1season).
I am not saying they are the same player, ie Costmar and Chubarov are completely different but both fill that 3/4c role.
Its also good to remember the fact we have more of those pieces than weve had in some of worst years, knowing most bust, we have a greater chance of at least having something.
Yes these PROJECTED players like PODZ could bust. Which could turn this pool upside down, but with the ability to see international and junior level games compared to 20years ago it is also easier to be more sure about those top players in your prospect depth.

Chubarov 5 year pro, solid 3rd liner max 20 pts. Its what Costmar is PROJECTED to be, could it be wrong, yes? But Chubarov is not a player comparison to cry over, he was a 3rd liner with little to no offense.

Vydarney played 1 year in the Q.. same team and year that Brad Richards put up 186 pts(hello point inflation). Otherwise was a good skating/passing dman like Briesbois was seen as.

I passed over our Myers of years ago.. sorry. Lets say Rathbone as a top 4 d comparable, even tho completely different styles

Wait, so most of those players didn't meet the projections that people placed upon them?

You're so close to getting it.

 

[dbaz]

Wait, so most of those players didn't meet the projections that people placed upon them?

You're so close to getting it.

Do you honestly believe I think ever player we draft is going to pan out?
I think the main point is we have as many players in our pool now that are comparable/better levels than the prospect pool in the link that was posted. Which would consist to a higher hit ratio on an NHL player.
But if you want to complain some more, go at it.

 

[RobertKron]

Do you honestly believe I think ever player we draft is going to pan out?
I think the main point is we have as many players in our pool now that are comparable/better levels than the prospect pool in the link that was posted. Which would consist to a higher hit ratio on an NHL player.
But if you want to complain some more, go at it.

Again, you're not getting it.

You're including a player like Kunz, but ignoring, I dunno, Pavel Duma. Zlodeyev counts, but not Tim Branham, or whoever else. It's a stupid comparison because you're comparing hindsight with foresight, which is missing the entire point of the exercise.

Like six or seven months ago you had Juolevi playing on the Canucks' 2nd pairing and Rafferty on the 3rd pairing as an alright defence corps for the 20-21 season, but you don't think you're optimistic with regards to prospect projections.

 

[dbaz]

Again, you're not getting it.

Like six or seven months ago you had Juolevi playing on the Canucks' 2nd pairing and Rafferty on the 3rd pairing as an alright defence corps for the 20-21 season, but you don't think you're optimistic with regards to prospect projections.

There is not a single person who is not optimistic about prospects. Projecting for the most part= being optimistic.
Only reason I feel more confident about picks made now compared to 10 years ago is the amount scouting has improved, and in general the draft being shrunk. theres more into these picks than there has been in the past, along with the hit rate of this drafting group compared to others.

Seeing the team before any moves were made during the offseason, would I have taken a left side with Rafferty on 3rd pairing and Juolevi on the 2nd? yes. At least then you'd be able to move on from the players asap. That's what this whole season should of been prior to the expansion draft. It would of also given us a better pick

 

[Wall of Wonder]

Canucks moving on from Keppen.
LW Ethan Keppen - Flint Firebirds, OHL (2019, 122nd, VAN)

sigh.

 

[vanuck]

Canucks moving on from Keppen.
LW Ethan Keppen - Flint Firebirds, OHL (2019, 122nd, VAN)

sigh.

Why did he seemingly regress in 2019-20? He had decent numbers in his draft year...

 

[vanuck]

There is not a single person who is not optimistic about prospects. Projecting for the most part= being optimistic.
Only reason I feel more confident about picks made now compared to 10 years ago is the amount scouting has improved, and in general the draft being shrunk. theres more into these picks than there has been in the past, along with the hit rate of this drafting group compared to others.

Seeing the team before any moves were made during the offseason, would I have taken a left side with Rafferty on 3rd pairing and Juolevi on the 2nd? yes. At least then you'd be able to move on from the players asap. That's what this whole season should of been prior to the expansion draft. It would of also given us a better pick

This could just be me but I feel that projecting prospects is more about looking at which traits are translatable to the NHL, cutting out the ones that aren't and seeing what you're left with rather than relying on optimism. For instance a bigger guy who puts up okay numbers in junior but solely relies on his size/strength against teenagers to produce while lacking more projectable traits like hockey sense/IQ is going to struggle once he moves up levels. Context also matters! Did they produce those stats while playing on the top line/PP or in a lesser role that'll eventually expand as older players graduate from the CHL?

Being realistic also comes with the understanding that most prospects simply aren't going to make the NHL. You kinda need that critical eye and ask why a certain guy WILL make it and beat the odds, instead of why they won't.

 

[Tables of Stats]

Canucks moving on from Keppen.
LW Ethan Keppen - Flint Firebirds, OHL (2019, 122nd, VAN)

sigh.

I'm not sure why you're sighing. He wasn't going to pan out and giving him more time would have cost us a roster slot for 3-years as he can no longer slide. He needed to show some AHL upside and, by all reports, was bland filler at that level in his 7-games.

 

[VanJack]

Why did he seemingly regress in 2019-20? He had decent numbers in his draft year...

If you go back and review the history of Canuck draft picks from the CHL, there's one common theme.....Most of them regress in their draft-plus-one season.

For some kids sadly, their draft year is the highlight of their hockey career.....and the Canucks have an unnerving habit of picking them when they're on the way down.

 

[Gstank]

I think CHL players are over scouted which is why its hard to find gems from that league as opposed to Overseas where there are usually a couple per draft

 

[David Bruce Banner]

I'm not sure why you're sighing. He wasn't going to pan out and giving him more time would have cost us a roster slot for 3-years as he can no longer slide. He needed to show some AHL upside and, by all reports, was bland filler at that level in his 7-games.

Luck and health have so much to do with the development of a player, especially more borderline prospects. I liked Keppen as a pick... then in his D+1 season he lost playing time to an import, got injured and had Covid shorten the season. This year there was no OHL season and after nearly a year of not playing a meaningful game, he took the jump into the AHL.
I can't think of a worse development window outside of just not playing at all. He could well be done. Personally, I'd like to see Abbotsford give him a PTO, just in case he didn't lose that promise he showed in 2019.

 

[The Iron Goalie]

 

[Fatass]

Does this mean Jasek is gone?

 

[The Iron Goalie]

Does this mean Jasek is gone?

Basically. Will be interesting to see if the Canucks qualify him (I assume they won't), but this is just another hole to fill in Abbotsford's roster.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Yep, he’s gone.

 

[iceburg]

Any thoughts on Viktor Persson? From the outside he looks like a mobile RHD with decent size for his age.
Looks like he had a taste of the SHL this year but spent most of his time in Sweden’s version of the ECHL…

Late pick but size and mobility are interesting. What’s holding him back?

 

[The Iron Goalie]

Any thoughts on Viktor Persson? From the outside he looks like a mobile RHD with decent size for his age.
Looks like he had a taste of the SHL this year but spent most of his time in Sweden’s version of the ECHL…

Late pick but size and mobility are interesting. What’s holding him back?

Really just need to continue to growing his game, and maturing as a player. Persson has all the tools you'd want in a D prospect - size, skating ability, puck moving upside, shot, and solid hockey smarts. He's a project and will take awhile, but could be very worth the wait.

Persson was supposed to play in the WHL this season, but it's season was delayed due to covid, so Persson decided to stay and play in Sweden. He started in the J20, but unfortunately that league was shut down mid season, and he wasn't ready for the SHL, so he was loaned to the HockeyEttan (and played well there).

It will be interesting to see how he does in the WHL this coming season. Persson wants to play there, but Kamloops still needs to approve as he'll take both an over age slot plus a euro import slot, so the Blazers could still choose not to bring him over (I think they will).

 

[iceburg]

Really just need to continue to growing his game, and maturing as a player. Persson has all the tools you'd want in a D prospect - size, skating ability, puck moving upside, shot, and solid hockey smarts. He's a project and will take awhile, but could be very worth the wait.

Persson was supposed to play in the WHL this season, but it's season was delayed due to vivid, so Persson decided to stay and play in Sweden. He started in the J20, but that league was shut down mid season, and he wasn't ready for the SHL, so he was loaned to the HockeyEttan (and played well there).

Will be interesting to see how he does in the WHL this coming season. Persson wants to play there, but Kamloops still needs to approve as he'll take both an over age slot plus a euro import slot, so the Blazers could still choose not to bring him over (I think they will).

Thanks for the insights. Helpful.

 

[VanJack]

I know it's early and COVID disrupted the hockey season everywhere.....but Persson might have move upside than Jurmo, the Finnish kid the Canucks drafted four rounds earlier in the 2020 draft.

Haven't checked Persson's birthdate, but since he'll be playing with Kamloops as a 20-year old, I assume he's too old to be eligible for Sweden's WJHC team this season?

 

[The Iron Goalie]

I know it's early and COVID disrupted the hockey season everywhere.....but Persson might have move upside than Jurmo, the Finnish kid the Canucks drafted four rounds earlier in the 2020 draft.

Haven't checked Persson's birthdate, but since he'll be playing with Kamloops as a 20-year old, I assume he's too old to be eligible for Sweden's WJHC team this season?

Correct. He's turns 20 in November, so unfortunately he misses the cutoff by two months.

 

[Canucks LB]

We are in such a Weird Position, That our prospects are becoming to good honestly.
Let's Assume Hoglander is on the team next year.
Let's assume Rathbone Makes the team next year.
And let's assume Podkolzin Makes the team next year.

Our "Top" Prospects will look like this (In No Particular Order)

Olli Juolevi
Kole Lind
Jett Woo
Jonah Gadjovich
Michael DiPietro (He Might be on the main Roster if Holtby gets claimed)
Viktor Persson
William Lockwood
Joni Jurmo
Arvid Costmar
Linus Karlsson
Jacob Truscott
Aidan McDonough
Jackson Kunz

This Has to be bottom 5 in the league does it not? Maybe even the Worst in the NHL? ( assuming, Hog, Rath, and Pod make the team).

It's Bitter Sweet, It's nice to see the kids Succeed, But our Farm Team is going to be a Train Wreck.

 

[clay]

We are in such a Weird Position, That our prospects are becoming to good honestly.
Let's Assume Hoglander is on the team next year.
Let's assume Rathbone Makes the team next year.
And let's assume Podkolzin Makes the team next year.

Our "Top" Prospects will look like this (In No Particular Order)

Olli Juolevi
Kole Lind
Jett Woo
Jonah Gadjovich
Michael DiPietro (He Might be on the main Roster if Holtby gets claimed)
Viktor Persson
William Lockwood
Joni Jurmo
Arvid Costmar
Linus Karlsson
Jacob Truscott
Aidan McDonough
Jackson Kunz

This Has to be bottom 5 in the league does it not? Maybe even the Worst in the NHL? ( assuming, Hog, Rath, and Pod make the team).

It's Bitter Sweet, It's nice to see the kids Succeed, But our Farm Team is going to be a Train Wreck.

Doesn't help that ever since he was hired, Benning has bled draft picks and prospects for flawed age gap/win now "assets". Well run organizations find a way to graduate their prospects that are ready AND keep the farm well stocked through sound drafting and asset management.

 

[canuckking1]

Doesn't help that ever since he was hired, Benning has bled draft picks and prospects for flawed age gap/win now "assets". Well run organizations find a way to graduate their prospects that are ready AND keep the farm well stocked through sound drafting and asset management.

Yeah, Canucks should've had a few more Rathbone caliber prospects in the system maybe even a few Hoglannder level ones prior to him hitting in the NHL.

If Canucks don't trade this year's picks they'll be able to add to 1 blue chip prospect and 1 good prospect at 9/40.