GDT: That Wonderful Time of the Year: BBHOF Balloting

[Winger for Hire]

Who would be the pitching equivalent of Harold Baines?

Jamie Moyer? Danny Darwin? Mark Buehrle?

Jack Morris

 

[Neutrinos]

Jack Morris

Morris lead the league in strikeouts, innings pitched, complete games, and was a 2x leader in wins. He also has 5 top 5 finishes for the Cy Young award and has that World Series MVP

Baines lead the league in SLG% once, and that's it, so I'd say Morris' resume is a notch above

 

[Winger for Hire]

Morris lead the league in strikeouts, innings pitched, complete games, and was a 2x leader in wins. He also has 5 top 5 finishes for the Cy Young award and has that World Series MVP

Baines lead the league in SLG% once, and that's it, so I'd say Morris' resume is a notch above

I can't wait for Adam Wainwright's induction if that's the case.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Glad Rivera was unanimous. About time someone received such a distinction and put an end to that stupid and archaic unwritten rule amongst voters. Legitimately was one of the dumbest things going.

I said it then, but how could someone like Ripken Jr. or Griffey Jr. not be considered a Hall of Famer by everyone? Those who left them off should have had their credentials revoked.

Next up to signal a change amongst the voting committee is the voting in of both Bonds and Clemens, who both should be in the Hall.

 

[Terry Yake]

neither jack morris or harold baines belong anywhere close to the HOF

 

[Backhandbeauty]

This is probably true.

On a related note, who decides which hat he'll "wear" at the induction? Or rather, his plaque I guess.

Does his family make the call, or the league?

Either way I hope it's a Jays hat, even if his best performance was in Philly.

Pretty sure they changed the rule to where the league decides. Wasn't there some kerfuffle about teams paying players to choose them?

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

Halladay's wife announced he will go in without a Jays or Phils cap. Just as a baseball player.

I'd be pretty pissed if I was the Jays. But obviously you gotta respect it.

 

[Blitzkrug]

I recall him saying several times he wanted to go in with a Blue Jays cap, but at the same time his wife and son likely know him better than anyone on this earth. Can't really disagree with it.

It def doesn't surprised me. Doc was beloved in both Toronto and Philadelphia and his recollections of time in both cities was nothing but positive so i can see him wanting to pay tribute in some way. As Brandon McCarthy said "Your player's favorite player."

Gut punch for the Jays and the fans though. The best player the team ever produced and he goes in as a default danny. Even i have to admit i'm a bit disappointed, but completely respect their decision.

Edit: Can the hall just say the hell with it and do what they feel? Because i feel like with how traditional they tend to be, Halladay will have a Jays cap when the time comes. I could see them leaning the other way if Halladay won a WS with Philly, but obviously that didn't happen. Gary Carter wanted to go in as a Met and they told him to **** off even though he won a ring with them. Interesting case unfolding here.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I recall him saying several times he wanted to go in with a Blue Jays cap, but at the same time his wife and son likely know him better than anyone on this earth. Can't really disagree with it.

It def doesn't surprised me. Doc was beloved in both Toronto and Philadelphia and his recollections of time in both cities was nothing but positive so i can see him wanting to pay tribute in some way. As Brandon McCarthy said "Your player's favorite player."

Gut punch for the Jays and the fans though. The best player the team ever produced and he goes in as a default danny. Even i have to admit i'm a bit disappointed, but completely respect their decision.

Edit: Can the hall just say the hell with it and do what they feel? Because i feel like with how traditional they tend to be, Halladay will have a Jays cap when the time comes. I could see them leaning the other way if Halladay won a WS with Philly, but obviously that didn't happen. Gary Carter wanted to go in as a Met and they told him to **** off even though he won a ring with them. Interesting case unfolding here.

Hall has already come out and said they will respect what the family wants and he will go in without a cap.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Interesting.

I don't agree with it, but at the same time i respect it.

Least we have Alomar in there...

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Roy Halladay is a HOF with
203-105
67 CG
20 Shutouts
3.38 ERA
2,117 K's
1.178 WHIP
64.3 WAR

While Curt Schilling is not a HOF with
216-146
83 CG
20 Shutouts
3.46 ERA
3,116 K's
1.137 WHIP
79.6 WAR

Schilling was also dominant in playoffs

11-2
2.23 ERA
4 CG
2 Shutouts
120 K's
.968 WHIP

1993 NLCS MVP
2001 WS MVP

Its pretty clear his political and personal life are why voters haven't put him in HOF

It's kinda sad that Schilling being a loudmouth with controversial views has more bearing on this thing than Halladay crashing a plane into a lake on a clear day while high on amphetamines. I mean, not that character really should matter..but Schilling was the better pitcher than Halladay and it's not even all that close.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

When Halladay and Harold Baines are HoFers those in charge have lowered the bar to a laughable level.

This is an embarrassment to baseball.

Let me get this straight, you feel Halladay's induction is an embarrassment to baseball, but make no comment on Mike f***ing Mussina being inducted?

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Let me get this straight, you feel Halladay's induction is an embarrassment to baseball, but make no comment on Mike ****ing Mussina being inducted?

Mussina is just as bad.

But Mussina has 20 WAR on Halladay.

Both are pity inductions

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Mussina is just as bad.

But Mussina has 20 WAR on Halladay.

Both are pity inductions

Forget about career WAR, Halladay was a flat-out better pitcher to anybody watching baseball. This is like basing the hockey hall of fame on career points. Halladay was like a Peter Forsberg, Mussina is like a Dave Andreychuk level of induction. Absolutely no comparison. One is easily worthy, the other is highly suspect.

 

[Neutrinos]

Forget about career WAR, Halladay was a flat-out better pitcher to anybody watching baseball. This is like basing the hockey hall of fame on career points. Halladay was like a Peter Forsberg, Mussina is like a Dave Andreychuk level of induction. Absolutely no comparison. One is easily worthy, the other is highly suspect.

I disagree completely

Mussina finished top 6 in Cy Young voting 9 times! - including a 2nd place finish in '99. His single season high in WAR is 8.2

Halladay's best WAR seasons are 8.8, 8.6 and 8.1, so Mussina was pretty much right there with him at their very best


If you want to say Halladay was like a Forsberg, I'd say Mussina is more like a Modano/Sundin

Nobody but the people who voted him in think Andreychuk should be in the Hall of Fame, but I would think the majority of baseball fans have no issue with Mussina's induction

Having said that, I think it makes more sense to compare pitchers to goalies, so Halladay would be more of a Lundqvist, whereas Mussina would be a Curtis Joseph

 

[Kyle McMahon]

I disagree completely

Mussina finished top 6 in Cy Young voting 8 times - including a 2nd place finish in '99. His single season high in WAR is 8.2

Halladay's best WAR seasons are 8.8, 8.6 and 8.1, so Mussina was pretty much right there with him at their very best


If you want to say Halladay was like a Forsberg, I'd say Mussina is more like a Modano/Sundin

Nobody but the people who voted him in think Andreychuk should be in the Hall of Fame, but I would think the majority of baseball fans have no issue with Mussina's induction

Having said that, I think it makes more sense to compare pitchers to goalies, so Halladay would be more of a Lundqvist, whereas Mussina would be a Curtis Joseph

Maybe I was too hard on Mussina with the Andreychuk comparison, but I was still somewhat surprised that he's going to the Hall of Fame. I don't remember him ever being referred to as a probable or even potential HOFer during his career. Just never a guy that struck me as more than a solid, but unspectacular, staff #1.

It does seem the standards have slackened in recent years though. Bert Blyleven in particular was an "are you freaking kidding me?" induction from recent times. Baseball always had a reputation as having the highest standards for induction, but I'm not sure that's really true anymore.

 

[Neutrinos]

Let's not forget that in his final season, Mussina went 20 - 9 with a 3.37 ERA and finished 6th in Cy Young voting

He could very well have reached 300 career wins if he'd stuck around for another 2 or 3 seasons

 

[Neutrinos]

Maybe I was too hard on Mussina with the Andreychuk comparison, but I was still somewhat surprised that he's going to the Hall of Fame. I don't remember him ever being referred to as a probable or even potential HOFer during his career. Just never a guy that struck me as more than a solid, but unspectacular, staff #1.

It does seem the standards have slackened in recent years though. Bert Blyleven in particular was an "are you freaking kidding me?" induction from recent times. Baseball always had a reputation as having the highest standards for induction, but I'm not sure that's really true anymore.

Harold Baines is the Andreychuk of baseball inductions

Also, I said Mussina was top 6 in Cy Young voting 8 times, but it was actually 9 times

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Harold Baines is the Andreychuk of baseball inductions

Also, I said Mussina was top 6 in Cy Young voting 8 times, but it was actually 9 times

Both veterans committee decisions this year seem to be guys that absolutely nobody thought should be HOFers. I don't really understand the idea of closers in the HOF, period. To draw the NHL analogy again, it's the equivalent to inducting penalty killing specialists or a goalie who only comes in during a shootout. I get Mariano Rivera (I guess Bob Gainey is his NHL HOF equivalent), but I can't believe all these other relievers that are getting inducted.

 

[Neutrinos]

Both veterans committee decisions this year seem to be guys that absolutely nobody thought should be HOFers. I don't really understand the idea of closers in the HOF, period. To draw the NHL analogy again, it's the equivalent to inducting penalty killing specialists or a goalie who only comes in during a shootout. I get Mariano Rivera (I guess Bob Gainey is his NHL HOF equivalent), but I can't believe all these other relievers that are getting inducted.

Rivera has a 0.70 ERA in 141 postseason innings, and once went 33 consecutive innings in the postseason without allowing a run

Both are MLB records

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Rivera has a 0.70 ERA in 141 postseason innings, and once went 33 consecutive innings in the postseason without allowing a run

Both are MLB records

Well like I said, I understand Rivera. When you're the best and most famous ever at something, you're going to get in, even if you're a specialist. But Lee Smith? Who the heck was sitting there thinking "boy, Lee Smith sure ought to be in the HOF"? It just seems so odd that a guy like that gets inducted while a guy like Johan Santana, arguably the best starter in the league for a 5 year span, is apparently a complete afterthought.

 

[EpochLink]

Well like I said, I understand Rivera. When you're the best and most famous ever at something, you're going to get in, even if you're a specialist. But Lee Smith? Who the heck was sitting there thinking "boy, Lee Smith sure ought to be in the HOF"? It just seems so odd that a guy like that gets inducted while a guy like Johan Santana, arguably the best starter in the league for a 5 year span, is apparently a complete afterthought.

Relieve pitchers get placed in a different category than starting pitchers, don't know why but they do.

Off the top of my head: Wilhelm, Fingers, Sutter, Smith, Gossage, Eckersley, Hoffman, Rivera are in there.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

It's kinda sad that Schilling being a loudmouth with controversial views has more bearing on this thing than Halladay crashing a plane into a lake on a clear day while high on amphetamines. I mean, not that character really should matter..but Schilling was the better pitcher than Halladay and it's not even all that close.

Halladay's peak was higher then Schilling's. Schilling did have the higher WAR playing several more seasons. Halladay won 2 Cy Youngs to Schilling's 0. I assure you it is very close.

Nice to see Halladay get in. Well-deserved.

It's worth noting Halladay's peak is greater then Schilling or Santana.

Halladay

WAR7: 50.6
Top 10 War for pitchers: 1,1,1,1,2,3,3,4

Schilling

War7: 48.7
Top 10 WAR for Pitchers: 2,2,2,3,4,4,4,4,6,7,8

Santana

War7: 45.0
Top 10 WAR for pitchers: 1,1,1,2,10

It's worth noting Halladay was well on his way to winning the WAR title and another Cy Young award in 2005 until a fluke injury caused him to miss the remainder of his starts. As it stands, he finished third in WAR that season despite missing 14 starts.

What a treat he was to watch as well. There was no pitcher in the new millenium that was as efficient as Doc. Hence, the incredible number of complete games during the dawn of specialization on the mound.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Happy to see Mussina in the HOF as well.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

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