GDT: That Wonderful Time of the Year: BBHOF Balloting

Voight

#winning
Feb 8, 2012
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I guess... it’s just an interesting list to end at number 11. A top 10 list is a thing. If they were going to list all the HOF members then why not include Mo? Seems a bit calculated to leave it at 11 with Halladay at the end. Maybe I’m wearing a tin foil hat on this but it just caught me as a bit strange

They made it 11 to include current and potential inductees, if Schilling had 64 WAR he'd of been 11th.

What the heck? Is this going to be common?

To me he's CLEARLY an Oriole.

He spent 1 more season with them vs the Yanks, more playoff success with the Yankees too. I guess he's grateful to both teams. Its not like with Halladay where he spent significantly more time with one franchise.
 

GIN ANTONIC

Registered User
Aug 19, 2007
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They made it 11 to include current and potential inductees, if Schilling had 64 WAR he'd of been 11th.

Eh... maybe. Like I said, if you’re including the current inductees then why not list Mo? It could be nothing but there’s no such thing as a top 11 list. Just seems like a point is being made about Halladay having a lower WAR than others. There’s really no more point debating it back and forth
 
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Neutrinos

Registered User
Sep 23, 2016
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I'm okay with Mussina going in with no cap

10 seasons in Baltimore, 8 in New York

With that said, I likely would've sided with the team that drafted me and gave me my start
 

BigBadBruins7708

Registered User
Dec 11, 2017
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With Edgar's induction, this has to mean Votto is a lock, right?

eh, I dont see it. He's 34 and has <300 HR and <1000 RBI. I dont see him getting to the gaudy totals he'd need.

Edgar does clear the last roadblock Ortiz would've had though. Edgar going in all but assures Ortiz goes in 1st ballot.
 

Neutrinos

Registered User
Sep 23, 2016
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eh, I dont see it. He's 34 and has <300 HR and <1000 RBI. I dont see him getting to the gaudy totals he'd need.

Edgar does clear the last roadblock Ortiz would've had though. Edgar going in all but assures Ortiz goes in 1st ballot.

Edgar had 145 HR and 592 RBI at the age of 34

Votto is sitting on 269 HR and 897 RBI

Also, when someone gets on base as often as Votto, nobody should give a damn about how many home runs they hit
 

GIN ANTONIC

Registered User
Aug 19, 2007
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Edgar had 145 HR and 592 RBI at the age of 34

Votto is sitting on 269 HR and 897 RBI

Also, when someone gets on base as often as Votto, nobody should give a damn about how many home runs they hit

I don't get the anti-Votto stance for the HOF. The guy has been elite literally every season since his rookie year except for 2014 when he only played 60 games and was average and last year when he was just very good and not MVP level. He's the poster child of the new era of player value. The guyis just really damn good at baseball.
 

BigBadBruins7708

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Dec 11, 2017
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I don't get the anti-Votto stance for the HOF. The guy has been elite literally every season since his rookie year except for 2014 when he only played 60 games and was average and last year when he was just very good and not MVP level. He's the poster child of the new era of player value. The guyis just really damn good at baseball.

because a player with basically the same resume gets laughed at when suggested for the HOF...Dustin Pedroia.

Until his injuries last year, Pedroia was the same type of player as Votto. Consistent year after year. Where Votto has more power, Pedroia is good defensively.

Pedroia:

ROY
MVP
4x Gold Glove
Silver Slugger
3x WS Champ
41.7 oWAR
15.5 dWAR
52.1 WAR

For comparison, Votto's are 54.4 oWAR, -4.7 dWAR, 58.8 WAR.

To be clear, I am NOT saying Pedroia is a Hall of Famer (great career, but definitely not a HOF one). Just pointing out why Votto and the HOF raises eyebrows.
 

GIN ANTONIC

Registered User
Aug 19, 2007
18,869
14,849
Toronto, ON
and when you account for defense, it more than evens out.

15.5 dWAR vs -4.7 dWAR

4 Gold Gloves to 1

58 WAR vs 52 WAR is basically the same player. Especially since they both have 12 seasons and 1,500 games

This is assuming that Votto retires today. I don't really see that happening and his skill set is one that should age very gracefully. The guy could be putting up 3-5 WAR seasons for the next 4 years.

Pedroia was definitely on HOF track for the first 8-10 years but his body is basically destroyed now and it seems unlikely he adds much value to his career numbers.
 

Winger for Hire

Praise Beebo
Dec 9, 2013
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and when you account for defense, it more than evens out.

15.5 dWAR vs -4.7 dWAR

4 Gold Gloves to 1

58 WAR vs 52 WAR is basically the same player. Especially since they both have 12 seasons and 1,500 games

I guess I'm just taking issue with your misuse of "same player" and WAR to show that.

They might have the same value, but that doesn't mean they are the same player. WAR does adjust for position and the scarcity of very good 2nd basemen, in relation to other positions, drives his WAR higher than Votto playing a position where a lot of very good players reside.

Ozzie Smith and Joe DiMaggio are separated by about 1 WAR, are they basically the same player? No. Are their total contributions to their team basically the same? Yes. DiMaggio was a better all around player while Ozzie could field and swipe bags at elite levels. DiMaggio is clearly a better player.

I'd be more accepting of using a straight WAR to WAR comparison between players who played the same positions, but comparing across positions needs to have some adjustment/context, not 1-to-1.

Also saying Pedroia was a head and shoulders better fielder just by Gold Gloves alone is lazy. Mainly because Gold Gloves historically have been given out to some average fielders (Hello Nate McLouth). Also because someone has 4 to someone else's one doesn't mean the player with one is terrible. He very well could have finished in 2nd place for all the other seasons he played. Not to mention comparing fielding of a 2B to a 1B is not a productive thing to do.
 

Neutrinos

Registered User
Sep 23, 2016
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It would be different if he went in as a Blue Jay, but as it stands, I really couldn't care less about Halladay's induction
 

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