GDT: That Wonderful Time of the Year: BBHOF Balloting

[DoyleG]

https://www.tsn.ca/rivera-halladay-top-newcomers-on-hall-of-fame-ballot-1.1212247

NEW YORK — Career saves leader Mariano Rivera and late pitcher Roy Halladay are among 20 new candidates on the Hall of Fame ballot for the Baseball Writers' Association of America, joined by 15 holdovers headed by Edgar Martinez.

Left-hander Andy Pettitte and infielders Todd Helton, Michael Young and Miguel Tejada also are among the newcomers on the ballot announced Monday.

Steroids-tainted stars Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds each appear on the ballot for the seventh time. Clemens rose to 57.3 per cent in the 2018 ballot but fell 75 votes short of the 75 per cent needed, and Bonds was 79 votes shy at 56.4 per cent. Martinez was 20 votes short at 70.4 per cent, Mike Mussina at 63.5 per cent and Curt Schilling at 51.2 per cent.

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[Terry Yake]

bonds
clemens
mussina
edgar
rivera
manny
walker
sosa


i don't think halladay should get in if santana fell off the ballot in his first year

 

[MMC]

Bonds
Clemens
Sosa
Mussina
Mo
Walker
Edgar
Halladay
Helton
Schilling

 

[Neutrinos]

bonds
clemens
mussina
edgar
rivera
manny
walker
sosa


i don't think halladay should get in if santana fell off the ballot in his first year

Agreed

 

[Neutrinos]

Here's my problem with the Hall of Fame:

At their best, Johan Santana was clearly a better pitcher than Mussina

And I'm not talking about a 1 season blip of superiority. For more than half a decade Santana was better than Mussina ever was

So how does one justify inducting Mussina, but not Santana?

 

[Better Call Sal]

Here's my problem with the Hall of Fame:

At their best, Johan Santana was clearly a better pitcher than Mussina

And I'm not talking about a 1 season blip of superiority. For more than half a decade Santana was better than Mussina ever was

So how does one justify inducting Mussina, but not Santana?

Is there not something to be said for longevity? I get what you're saying, but Mussina put together a pretty strong and consistent 18 year career.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

bonds
clemens
mussina
edgar
rivera
manny
walker
sosa


i don't think halladay should get in if santana fell off the ballot in his first year

Why? And why do people always underrated durability/longevity...?

NoHan had a HoF peak/prime but Halladay's prime was much longer.

100 more games started and 700+ more innings pitched.

 

[Neutrinos]

Is there not something to be said for longevity? I get what you're saying, but Mussina put together a pretty strong and consistent 18 year career.

Quality over quantity

The Hall of Fame should be about acknowledging excellence

 

[Better Call Sal]

Quality over quantity

The Hall of Fame should be about acknowledging excellence

I think that there is excellence in being consistently good for over 15 years, but that may just be me.

 

[Terry Yake]

Why? And why do people always underrated durability/longevity...?

NoHan had a HoF peak/prime but Halladay's prime was much longer.

100 more games started and 700+ more innings pitched.

santana fell off the ballot after one year. i get halladay had a longer prime, but for a guy like santana to fall off the ballot after one year, i just don't think its right that a guy who was pretty much on the same tier should get in. santana's peak was insane

and i agree that quality > quantity. longevity should of course be taken into consideration to an extent but don't let its effect on someone's numbers fool you. albert belle should 100% be a HOF'er, but he isn't because he didn't play long enough (and because he was a massive headcase)

 

[Filthy Dangles]

With the quality over quantity argument, you guys make it sound like it's Jamie Moyer or Bartolo Colon we are talking about.

fwiw, I bellieve Santana probably should be in but Roy Halladay and MM have better career values because although they didn't peak as high they were better for longer.

A guy isn't providing value when he isn't playing and his career is over at age 31. But like i said he's one of those guys who's peaks should overcome that and get in.

 

[Voight]

Bonds
Schilling
Moose
Halladay
Clemens
Rivera
Edgar

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

Bonds
Clemens
Rivera
Edgar Martinez
Mussina
Schilling
Rolen
Walker
McGriff
Manny


Since they put Hoffman in last year Billy Wagner should probably be in too, since he was better, if we're setting that standard.

 

[missingmika]

Omar and Manny!

 

[Terry Yake]

for anyone questioning why mussina should be a HOF'er

- 82.7 WAR (19th all time since 1901 and 9th all time since 1969.) Only one of 13 pitchers to collect at least 10 seasons of 5.0+ WAR
- 48.6 WAA (13th all time)
- 19th all time in K's
- 3.58 k-bb ratio. only schilling tops that among pitchers with over 3,000 innings since 1900
- 7 GG

and i agree that if the hall insists in putting closers aside from rivera in the HOF, then wagner should absolutely be a HOF'er. so should k-rod. see how dumb that sounds?

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

for anyone questioning why mussina should be a HOF'er

- 82.7 WAR (19th all time since 1901 and 9th all time since 1969.) Only one of 13 pitchers to collect at least 10 seasons of 5.0+ WAR
- 48.6 WAA (13th all time)
- 19th all time in K's
- 3.58 k-bb ratio. only schilling tops that among pitchers with over 3,000 innings since 1900
- 7 GG

and i agree that if the hall insists in putting closers aside from rivera in the HOF, then wagner should absolutely be a HOF'er. so should k-rod. see how dumb that sounds?

Moose is an absolute HOFer He was consistently great for a long long time. It's a shame he never won a CY or a WS. His last year in Baltimore before going to NYY, the Yankees won the WS and then they won it in 2009 the year after he retired. Obviously I am not sad at all the Yankees didn't win any other championships but Mussina had an excellent career regardless.

 

[tony d]

Follow this spreadsheet for the latest Hall of Fame developments:

2019 BBHOF Tracker.xlsm - Microsoft Excel Online

Put off by Ryan Thibodeaux on Twitter

My 10-name ballot would be: Bonds, Clemens, Halladay, Martinez, Mcgriff, Mussina, Pettite, Ramirez, Rivera, Walker

I think Rivera and Martinez get in.

 

[Neutrinos]

Follow this spreadsheet for the latest Hall of Fame developments:

2019 BBHOF Tracker.xlsm - Microsoft Excel Online

Put off by Ryan Thibodeaux on Twitter

My 10-name ballot would be: Bonds, Clemens, Halladay, Martinez, Mcgriff, Mussina, Pettite, Ramirez, Rivera, Walker

I think Rivera and Martinez get in.

From where I'm sitting, there's zero justification for Edgar's induction, but not Walker's

Offensively they're very similar, but Walker was providing Gold Glove caliber defense and was a threat on the bases as well (230 SB)

 

[SSF]

Can't wait to see Murray Chass' ballot.

Will then listen to him and Casey Stern fight on MLB Network Radio.

 

[tony d]

I'd like to see Walker get in as well, if I had a ballot he'd be on it. Martinez, though, I think should get in next yr.

What's everyone's thoughts on Halladay? He'd be on my ballot and is one of the best Blue Jays ever but I don't see him making the Hall of Fame right away.

 

[Terry Yake]

i forgot about the crime dog

i'd put him on my ballot as well

 

[Blitzkrug]

Rivera
Halladay
Walker
Manny
Wagner (I mean Hoffman got in, so may as well)
Edgar

Mussina is a hall of famer, but he will have to wait yet another year since there's a better pitcher in front of him.

 

[Voight]

I'd like to see Walker get in as well, if I had a ballot he'd be on it. Martinez, though, I think should get in next yr.

What's everyone's thoughts on Halladay? He'd be on my ballot and is one of the best Blue Jays ever but I don't see him making the Hall of Fame right away.

I always thought he was a first ballot guy but his untimely and unfortunate death expedited the process. But they could also Pat Burns him and wait 4 years.

Its funny how if Mussina had won even a single Cy and the WS in 2009 he'd already be in the hall.

 

[Elvis P]

for anyone questioning why mussina should be a HOF'er

- 82.7 WAR (19th all time since 1901 and 9th all time since 1969.) Only one of 13 pitchers to collect at least 10 seasons of 5.0+ WAR
- 48.6 WAA (13th all time)
- 19th all time in K's
- 3.58 k-bb ratio. only schilling tops that among pitchers with over 3,000 innings since 1900
- 7 GG

and i agree that if the hall insists in putting closers aside from rivera in the HOF, then wagner should absolutely be a HOF'er. so should k-rod. see how dumb that sounds?

Moose is an absolute HOFer He was consistently great for a long long time. It's a shame he never won a CY or a WS. His last year in Baltimore before going to NYY, the Yankees won the WS and then they won it in 2009 the year after he retired. Obviously I am not sad at all the Yankees didn't win any other championships but Mussina had an excellent career regardless.

Agreed 100% with both. Moose was also a great 7 time Gold Glove fielder who earned more WAR in 18 seasons than Nolan Ryan did in 27! Ignoring eligibility these are my top 6:

1. Bonds
2. Clemens
3. A-Rod
4. Pujols
5. Beltre
6. Mussina

 

[Neutrinos]

Agreed 100% with both. Moose was also a great 7 time Gold Glove fielder who earned more WAR in 18 seasons than Nolan Ryan did in 27! Ignoring eligibility these are my top 6:

1. Bonds
2. Clemens
3. A-Rod
4. Pujols
5. Beltre
6. Mussina

Interesting that you list Pujols, but not Cabrera

I'd also think Ichiro should be ranked above Beltre and Mussina. Trout and Kershaw, too, if we're completely ignoring eligibility