Friedman: Teams calling Habs about Max Pacioretty Sign and Trade

[Club]

He is overrated especially at his cap hit as a #2 center...

My fault lol. I didnt see the part about the cap hit. But yes i agree

 

[AndreRoy]

Bergevin will look for a 1rst round pick, a young center or a good puck moving d-man under 25 yrs old and a B prospect

And he will get a low 1st round pick and a B prospect.

 

[HomeAndHome]

A habs fan thay doesnt wildly overvalue his own players? OMG ITS THE END OF THE WORLD.

A terrible comment by an Oiler fan? omg it's business as usual

Yes some people overvalue him, some undervalue him like the post you're responding to. Patches has value, one down year doesn't completely destroy that and the premise of this thread is a sign-and-trade, which would more than likely increase the return.

 

[4thline]

His value to contenders is as a rental.

His value to non-legit contenders would be if he had term.

His value is different to different teams. It's not really a ridiculous statement, even if you worded it differently above.

Bingo. Are there any contenders that have the cap structure to add a 3rd/4th fiddle up front for 7+ million dollars?
This opens up the middling/bubble teams and those coming out of a rebuild.

 

[Colt55]

Rick Nash who is much older and nowhere near as good as Patch got much more than that...

Last year Rick nash had better numbers and over all career rick nash is the much better player

 

[Colt55]

This has got to be a joke post, right? It sure if a joke of post at the very least.




Why would the Habs do something this dumb?

Why would this be a joke post. Blues do not need or want anything to do with patches. If you think you are getting a 1st an A center prospect and an additional peice. Seriously though if he was going to get that it would have been last year. After his injury and performance last season your just not going to get that haul.

Also Blues will not pay anything close to that for a max whom is a rental.

 

[PriceIsGod]

I prefer to keep Galchenyuk myself. ROR does not turn us into a top 10 team. I rather draft the center we need and keep our age 25 and under core together.

Not debating which one is better for our rebuild, just stating in terms of trade value and who's the better player ROR wins imo

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Last year Rick nash had better numbers and over all career rick nash is the much better player

You really want to start an argument on who is better between Pacioretty and Nash?
You will probably be the only one taking Nash's side

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not debating which one is better for our rebuild, just stating in terms of trade value and who's the better player ROR wins imo

Who was the better player when we made the Sergachev for Drouin trade? I rather keep Galchenyuk over ROR. Habs need goal scoring and Galchenyuk helps us with that. ROR has stalled at 55-60 pts and I think Galchenyuk is finally showing maturity right when he is about to head into prime years. I rather keep Galchenyuk but I do hate that 3 year deal we gave him. He needs a new contract at age 26.

Galchenyuk fits our rebuild and our team today. After this trade, Galchenyuk becomes the better player and ROR drowns on our roster.

 

[Colt55]

You really want to start an argument on who is better between Pacioretty and Nash?
You will probably be the only one taking Nash's side

do you really want to have a debate on supply and demand. Cause thats why nash got what he did. The market is flooded with LW players. Max came of a bad possibly career declining year. The price of players varies. Nash performed better last year, that doesnt mean he is the better current player but he performed better. As for the Career rick nash is the superior player. If you think that patches is going to get you the 1st A center prospect and another peice your wrong. If that was going to happen it was going to be last year. That ship sailed. The use of logic well this guy got this i got a better younger player he should get better is asinine. You will get 1st b prospect or better winger not a center. If you get more then your right but we went through this all the way up to deadline and no body paid that price.

T

 

[Colt55]

--The Blues are hardly "stacked" at LW. They have Schwartz and Steen....and then? Berglund? Sobotka? Please. Steen has no business playing top 6 minutes, and if conventional wisdom is right and Thomas is making the team as the 3C, he will need a solid two way guy like Steen on his line. Sobotka needs to be dealt for whatever can be had. Berglund is serviceable as a 3c, but again, Thomas is probably a better option if he's ready. Don't even say Robby Fabbri's name. I wish the kid all the best, but he's played about two minutes of hockey in the last two years. He has zero business being penciled into the roster, much less on the top line. If he forces his way back on the team by Christmas, so much the better, but not holding my breath for it.

-I agree that Patches doesn't get a sniff of Parayko without significant adds...Which is why, in my last post, when I wondered if the Blues could pull off a competitive offer, I specifically excluded Parayko, along with Thomas and Kyrou. Personally, I would not move Parayko for anyone not named Draisatl--and I absolutely am hoping for exactly that.

Lets start with this. Steen out produced Patches last year. Patches would never even be in a serious converstion for parayko this is we agree on. As for berglund played 10 less games and had 10 less points than patches. As for Fabbri he made the team as 18-19 years old and was playing top 6. In 15-16 he put up 18g 37pts in 72 games and in 16-17 he put up 11g 29 points in 51 games then got a cheap hit and messed his knee up. He got another cheap hit in preseason and hurt his knee again. He is def. penciled in as possible top 6 player. If he gets hurt again then no loss on us he plays 80% the way he did then worth it.

1 year of patches just isnt worth it. Nice joke with 2 mins of hockey though. We have so many talented kids coming up no reason to waste any of them on patches.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

do you really want to have a debate on supply and demand. Cause thats why nash got what he did. The market is flooded with LW players. Max came of a bad possibly career declining year. The price of players varies. Nash performed better last year, that doesnt mean he is the better current player but he performed better. As for the Career rick nash is the superior player. If you think that patches is going to get you the 1st A center prospect and another peice your wrong. If that was going to happen it was going to be last year. That ship sailed. The use of logic well this guy got this i got a better younger player he should get better is asinine. You will get 1st b prospect or better winger not a center. If you get more then your right but we went through this all the way up to deadline and no body paid that price.

T

1. Flooded with left wingers? JVR is only good ufa lw likely available.

2. Nash performed better last year?

Nash: 28 pts in 60 games
Pacioretty: 37 pts in 64 games

Hmm sorry what?

3. "Max came of a bad possibly career declining year."

You realize that despite this being a downyear for Pacioretty, its equal to what Nash has done in each of the past 3 years?

And Lebrun asked gms if this bad year had any effects on Paciorettys value, and they said no. They expect him to bounce back.

4. Career?

Why in the world would career matter? What Nash did 7-8 years ago literally has no impact on his value.

Plekanec was a 2-way low end 1C three years ago and he got traded for a 2nd rounder.

Its what they did in the past few years that matters.

Nash: 28 pts, 38 pts, 36 pts
Pacioretty: 37 pts, 67 pts (35 goals), 64 pts (30 goals)

Yea its not close at all.

5. "If you think that patches is going to get you the 1st A center prospect and another peice your wrong. If that was going to happen it was going to be last year."

Well no because Bergevin was asking for more than that. Apparently he wanted a 1st + top 6 center and more.

Add in that Pacioretty has the intangibles (is a captain), on the good side of 30, and a consistent ~35 goalscorer 65 pt man in the previous 4 years, its easy to figure out that he would be highly coveted and worth a lot.

 

[beowulf]

My fault lol. I didnt see the part about the cap hit. But yes i agree

If he was a $6M, maybe a tad more, and didn't work out as a #1 center for the Habs but was great as a #2 I'd be all for it but Bergevin screwed the team by trading for Weber's contract that goes on forever and giving Price $10.5M a year. If they are going to spend $7.5M++ they better damn well make sure they are getting a surefire center to lead the team.

 

[beowulf]

Why would this be a joke post. Blues do not need or want anything to do with patches. If you think you are getting a 1st an A center prospect and an additional peice. Seriously though if he was going to get that it would have been last year. After his injury and performance last season your just not going to get that haul.

Also Blues will not pay anything close to that for a max whom is a rental.

It's a joke if you seriously think that Max is worth only a very late 1st and a B prospect. I don't see him going to the Blues anyways but saying he is worth so little, especially resgined, as is the premise of the thread, he will fetch more than that.

 

[Colt55]

1. Flooded with left wingers? JVR is only good ufa lw likely available.

2. Nash performed better last year?

Nash: 28 pts in 60 games
Pacioretty: 37 pts in 64 games

Hmm sorry what?

3. "Max came of a bad possibly career declining year."

You realize that despite this being a downyear for Pacioretty, its equal to what Nash has done in each of the past 3 years?

And Lebrun asked gms if this bad year had any effects on Paciorettys value, and they said no. They expect him to bounce back.

4. Career?

Why in the world would career matter? What Nash did 7-8 years ago literally has no impact on his value.

Plekanec was a 2-way low end 1C three years ago and he got traded for a 2nd rounder.

Its what they did in the past few years that matters.

Nash: 28 pts, 38 pts, 36 pts
Pacioretty: 37 pts, 67 pts (35 goals), 64 pts (30 goals)

Yea its not close at all.

5. "If you think that patches is going to get you the 1st A center prospect and another peice your wrong. If that was going to happen it was going to be last year."

Well no because Bergevin was asking for more than that. Apparently he wanted a 1st + top 6 center and more.

Add in that Pacioretty has the intangibles (is a captain), on the good side of 30, and a consistent ~35 goalscorer 65 pt man in the previous 4 years, its easy to figure out that he would be highly coveted and worth a lot.

2) nash scored 21 goals and 13 assists thats 34 points. Plus he is a sniper/playoff performer

3) he had a bad, injured year. Regardless of wether some gms think he will come back. decline sets in at 30. Is Max in decline dont know. But just because another GM says something doesnt mean they all feel the same way.

4)Career matters you want to base the value of a player on the complete body of work. In nashes career he has been an dangerous player on weak teams. He is also a rw which was in more demand than lwers.

5)Like i said if you think patches is going to get you a 1st and an A rated center prospect you got another thing coming. Also i get that berg. asked for more but did anyone pay it. Did anyone pay it.... not they did not. FYI hoffman is on the table longer contract , younger player similar numbers smaller asking price.

6)Seriously intangibles. No one is getting patches to be their new captain no one is going to pay him 6 7 mil for 5-6 years. Those bad contracts are going by the wasteside.

 

[Colt55]

It's a joke if you seriously think that Max is worth only a very late 1st and a B prospect. I don't see him going to the Blues anyways but saying he is worth so little, especially resgined, as is the premise of the thread, he will fetch more than that.

After his performance he will get a 1st and a prospect to expect more is unlikely if that was the case then why wasnt he traded when he had more term and value.

 

[beowulf]

After his performance he will get a 1st and a prospect to expect more is unlikely if that was the case then why wasnt he traded when he had more term and value.

What part of the premise of this thread don't you get? It clearly states that the idea is if it is a sign and trade....so he would have term to spare.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

2) nash scored 21 goals and 13 assists thats 34 points. Plus he is a sniper/playoff performer

3) he had a bad, injured year. Regardless of wether some gms think he will come back. decline sets in at 30. Is Max in decline dont know. But just because another GM says something doesnt mean they all feel the same way.

4)Career matters you want to base the value of a player on the complete body of work. In nashes career he has been an dangerous player on weak teams. He is also a rw which was in more demand than lwers.

5)Like i said if you think patches is going to get you a 1st and an A rated center prospect you got another thing coming. Also i get that berg. asked for more but did anyone pay it. Did anyone pay it.... not they did not. FYI hoffman is on the table longer contract , younger player similar numbers smaller asking price.

6)Seriously intangibles. No one is getting patches to be their new captain no one is going to pay him 6 7 mil for 5-6 years. Those bad contracts are going by the wasteside.

Nash and playoff performer, are you kidding me? That's the biggest thing Pacioretty and Nash have in common, they're practically MIA in the playoffs. Even at the olympics his statline is pretty meh.

 

[Colt55]

What part of the premise of this thread don't you get? It clearly states that the idea is if it is a sign and trade....so he would have term to spare.

When was the last time a sign and trade happened. That means patches will still be taking 6-7+ mil per at least 5-6 and no team wants to pay that especially not center prospects not at all. He is in or will be starting his decline soon.

 

[Colt55]

Nash and playoff performer, are you kidding me? That's the biggest thing Pacioretty and Nash have in common, they're practically MIA in the playoffs. Even at the olympics his statline is pretty meh.

Your crazy go look up the numbers so not comparable. He may not be a ppg player in playoffs but nash's numbers are significantly better.

 

[67Blues]

Patches will fetch a mid-low 1st and an A prospect to a team that absolutely needs and is willing to take a chance on him returning to a 55+ pt scoring LW and is going for it. He'd probably fit in with a team that is either in a short rebuild or coming out of a rebuild and has a higher 1st, but that probably won't net them an A prospect as they are most likely using them, so expect multiple B+ prospects, and/or a player that is a few years into the league with upside. That isn't the Blues, but probably 95% of HF agrees on that. Some people just like to stick it to Blues fans to get a reaction out of some of us.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

Your crazy go look up the numbers so not comparable. He may not be a ppg player in playoffs but nash's numbers are significantly better.

Pacioretty: 0.5 PPG.
Nash: 0.52 PPG

Damn, that 0.156% difference, so significant. Check your facts before posting such nonsense.

 

[beowulf]

When was the last time a sign and trade happened. That means patches will still be taking 6-7+ mil per at least 5-6 and no team wants to pay that especially not center prospects not at all. He is in or will be starting his decline soon.

Are you really being this obtuse on purpose? Sign and trades do happen, even if rarely, and that does not matter based on the premise of this thread. Friedman said he was aware of teams calling about Max again and a number supposedly asked about the idea of a sign and trade deal.

 

[beowulf]

Your crazy go look up the numbers so not comparable. He may not be a ppg player in playoffs but nash's numbers are significantly better.

Now you are not even trying....

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

2) nash scored 21 goals and 13 assists thats 34 points. Plus he is a sniper/playoff performer

3) he had a bad, injured year. Regardless of wether some gms think he will come back. decline sets in at 30. Is Max in decline dont know. But just because another GM says something doesnt mean they all feel the same way.

4)Career matters you want to base the value of a player on the complete body of work. In nashes career he has been an dangerous player on weak teams. He is also a rw which was in more demand than lwers.

5)Like i said if you think patches is going to get you a 1st and an A rated center prospect you got another thing coming. Also i get that berg. asked for more but did anyone pay it. Did anyone pay it.... not they did not. FYI hoffman is on the table longer contract , younger player similar numbers smaller asking price.

6)Seriously intangibles. No one is getting patches to be their new captain no one is going to pay him 6 7 mil for 5-6 years. Those bad contracts are going by the wasteside.

How to prove you're trolling/have no idea what you're talking about.

Rick Nash .51 ppg playoffs.
Max Pacioretty .50 ppg playoffs.