Friedman: Teams calling Habs about Max Pacioretty Sign and Trade

[Baksfamous112]

do you really want to have a debate on supply and demand. Cause thats why nash got what he did. The market is flooded with LW players. Max came of a bad possibly career declining year. The price of players varies. Nash performed better last year, that doesnt mean he is the better current player but he performed better. As for the Career rick nash is the superior player. If you think that patches is going to get you the 1st A center prospect and another peice your wrong. If that was going to happen it was going to be last year. That ship sailed. The use of logic well this guy got this i got a better younger player he should get better is asinine. You will get 1st b prospect or better winger not a center. If you get more then your right but we went through this all the way up to deadline and no body paid that price.

T

You, again, commenting on a Patches trade thread? What a surprise. As usual, you’re bashing him again. We know what you think of the player, thanks for your input but we’re all tired of seeing you here.

You don’t want him and we don’t want to send it to you. Now please go poison another thread, your cirque is getting boring and annoying

 

[BA Carroll]

Lets start with this. Steen out produced Patches last year. Patches would never even be in a serious converstion for parayko this is we agree on. As for berglund played 10 less games and had 10 less points than patches. As for Fabbri he made the team as 18-19 years old and was playing top 6. In 15-16 he put up 18g 37pts in 72 games and in 16-17 he put up 11g 29 points in 51 games then got a cheap hit and messed his knee up. He got another cheap hit in preseason and hurt his knee again. He is def. penciled in as possible top 6 player. If he gets hurt again then no loss on us he plays 80% the way he did then worth it.

1 year of patches just isnt worth it. Nice joke with 2 mins of hockey though. We have so many talented kids coming up no reason to waste any of them on patches.

--None of the "talented kids coming up" play LW.
--No way the Blues put a guy who played ZERO games last year in a top six role--unless it's in San Antonio.
--If you want Steen, Berglund, Barbashev or Sobotka playing in your top 6, you must be rooting for a lottery pick. Steen and Berglund are good players, but they're not top 6 players. On any team. I don't think the Blues keep Barbashev or Sobotka. Any way you cut it, to improve this team, the ideal solution is to add THREE new top 6 players--and that can be done (see my last post). Now, just because it CAN be done doesn't mean I think Doug Armstrong can pull it off. But if this team rolls out this fall with the same cast of clowns returning, we shouldn't expect a different result.
--And no, risking Robby Fabbri's career by throwing him into a first line situation after sitting out for a whole year, just to get "80%" of his former production is not "worth it", and if he gets hurt is IS a "loss on us". Not only is it completely unnecessary to rush him into that role, it's unethical and unwise.
--In any event, whether you or I are right is irrelevant. What matters is what Blues' brass thinks. And they've tipped their hand that they are looking to upgrade our top 6 in any way they can. If they can find a willing partner, anything is possible.

 

[Halla]

I was saying Galchenyuk + Juulsen/Scherbak + 2nd for comparaison. At the time both Grigorenko and Zadorov wanted to got back to Russia if they weren't kept in Buffalo (even if they weren't ready imo)

That's what I opened with... would probably have given a bit more, but I tought it was a good base. 55 pts younger winger + 38th overall for 55 pts center @ 7.5M.

ROR also said his team had a losing attitude/culture. Remembers me Cammalleri in montreal.

wait, ROR who has hit at least 55pts six straight years (including 60 or more three times ) is a 55pt C while galchenyuk who has done it once in 7 years is also a 55pt guy?

at least try to be unbiased. ROR has outscored Galchenyuk for 5 straight years (79 extra pts)
they arent both 55pt guys. ROR is a 55-65pt guy. Galchenyuk is 45-55pt guy

 

[Captain97]

wait, ROR who has hit at least 55pts six straight years (including 60 or more three times ) is a 55pt C while galchenyuk who has done it once in 7 years is also a 55pt guy?

at least try to be unbiased. ROR has outscored Galchenyuk for 5 straight years (79 extra pts)
they arent both 55pt guys. ROR is a 55-65pt guy. Galchenyuk is 45-55pt guy

While you are correct ROR is the better player Galchenyuk was injured one year he had a 60 point pace, and you are talking about his 18-20 season compared to ROR's 21-23 in 3 of those years not exactly a fair comparison. Again I state ROR is the better player but be fair in your criticisms.

 

[jfhabs]

wait, ROR who has hit at least 55pts six straight years (including 60 or more three times ) is a 55pt C while galchenyuk who has done it once in 7 years is also a 55pt guy?

at least try to be unbiased. ROR has outscored Galchenyuk for 5 straight years (79 extra pts)
they arent both 55pt guys. ROR is a 55-65pt guy. Galchenyuk is 45-55pt guy

Maybe you should try that yourself. It's ok you're a leafs fan you hate the habs we get it. Don't need to spread shit around.

Galchenyuk is 0.61ppg. O'Reilly is 0.65ppg. In their respective career. Pts/60 gives a little edge to galchenyuk but o'reilly plays tougher minutes.

I never said they were equal that's why I added the early second. If you look at most mocks/rankings, a very good player will be available there.

They are not a young potential top 4 D + early second in a very deep draft appart. And certainly not worth 3ov

 

[Halla]

Maybe you should try that yourself. It's ok you're a leafs fan you hate the habs we get it. Don't need to spread **** around.

Galchenyuk is 0.61ppg. O'Reilly is 0.65ppg. In their respective career. Pts/60 gives a little edge to galchenyuk but o'reilly plays tougher minutes.

I never said they were equal that's why I added the early second. If you look at most mocks/rankings, a very good player will be available there.

They are not a young potential top 4 D + early second in a very deep draft appart. And certainly not worth 3ov

oh right the good ol ppg argument.
yeha you are right. ROR with three seasons of 55+ and three more at 60+ is = Galchenyuk with 1 season of 55+ and 0 seasons over 60.

the difference between a 1C and a 2nd line winger isnt a 2nd. get real

 

[Halla]

While you are correct ROR is the better player Galchenyuk was injured one year he had a 60 point pace, and you are talking about his 18-20 season compared to ROR's 21-23 in 3 of those years not exactly a fair comparison. Again I state ROR is the better player but be fair in your criticisms.

it doesnt change the fact the other guy is basically saying 55pt winger for 55pt C.
one guy has done it 6 straight years, the other has done it once

 

[ole ole]

oh right the good ol ppg argument.
yeha you are right. ROR with three seasons of 55+ and three more at 60+ is = Galchenyuk with 1 season of 55+ and 0 seasons over 60.

the difference between a 1C and a 2nd line winger isnt a 2nd. get real

PPG Tells the whole story. ROR is the better player but the pt difference isn't as far as you try to make it seem. the proof..61 compared to .65

 

[jfhabs]

oh right the good ol ppg argument.
yeha you are right. ROR with three seasons of 55+ and three more at 60+ is = Galchenyuk with 1 season of 55+ and 0 seasons over 60.

the difference between a 1C and a 2nd line winger isnt a 2nd. get real

Yeah let's forget about stats. Let's forget about player age too. Let's not forget you're a biaised leaf fan tho!!!

 

[tucker3434]

Maybe you should try that yourself. It's ok you're a leafs fan you hate the habs we get it. Don't need to spread **** around.

Galchenyuk is 0.61ppg. O'Reilly is 0.65ppg. In their respective career. Pts/60 gives a little edge to galchenyuk but o'reilly plays tougher minutes.

I never said they were equal that's why I added the early second. If you look at most mocks/rankings, a very good player will be available there.

They are not a young potential top 4 D + early second in a very deep draft appart. And certainly not worth 3ov

Career ppg for a guy like ROR, who entered the league at 18 after being taken 33OA and played a defensive role for his first 2 seasons, is disengenuous at best. His worst ppg since then is .67 and Galchenyuk has only eclipsed that twice.

 

[jfhabs]

Career ppg for a guy like ROR, who entered the league at 18 after being taken 33OA and played a defensive role for his first 2 seasons, is disengenuous at best. His worst ppg since then is .67 and Galchenyuk has only eclipsed that twice.

Galchnyuk was in the league at 19yo and played in a better team at the time with limited playing time.

What I was trying to say is the value might not be there but I don't think it's absolutely ridiculous to say Galchenyuk + could be a good base for a RoR trade.

 

[tucker3434]

Galchnyuk was in the league at 19yo and played in a better team at the time with limited playing time.

What I was trying to say is the value might not be there but I don't think it's absolutely ridiculous to say Galchenyuk + could be a good base for a RoR trade.

ROR’s o zone faceoff percentage was in the low 40’s his rookie year, worse than even Foote. Galchenyuk’s was in the high 50’s. Totally different usage.

Regardless, it’s clear that those first two years were outliers when viewing his career as a whole. That his recent low point is above his career average should tell you all you need to know about the relevance of the average.

ROR is better than Galchenyuk in pretty much every facet of the game by a not-insignificant amount. If I was Buffalo, I’d need a pretty big add if Galchenyuk is the return.

 

[steinerecliner]

--None of the "talented kids coming up" play LW.
--No way the Blues put a guy who played ZERO games last year in a top six role--unless it's in San Antonio.
--If you want Steen, Berglund, Barbashev or Sobotka playing in your top 6, you must be rooting for a lottery pick. Steen and Berglund are good players, but they're not top 6 players. On any team. I don't think the Blues keep Barbashev or Sobotka. Any way you cut it, to improve this team, the ideal solution is to add THREE new top 6 players--and that can be done (see my last post). Now, just because it CAN be done doesn't mean I think Doug Armstrong can pull it off. But if this team rolls out this fall with the same cast of clowns returning, we shouldn't expect a different result.
--And no, risking Robby Fabbri's career by throwing him into a first line situation after sitting out for a whole year, just to get "80%" of his former production is not "worth it", and if he gets hurt is IS a "loss on us". Not only is it completely unnecessary to rush him into that role, it's unethical and unwise.
--In any event, whether you or I are right is irrelevant. What matters is what Blues' brass thinks. And they've tipped their hand that they are looking to upgrade our top 6 in any way they can. If they can find a willing partner, anything is possible.

Barbashev I see staying, the guy was one of the most consistent players we have last season. Perfect younger third line guy. To say Fabbri because he didn't play last year "can't be a top six." I feel training camp will decide that. The issue is winger side of things we have so many about to make NHL debuts that having Patch under a longer term deal pass two years is risking. When you have Thomas and Kyrou who are going to be top 6 players in the future and your in a situation where you have lets say Tavares signed and Patches signed, how do you resign Thomas and Kryou when there entry levels are done, if they hit the way they are supposed too, there has to be some money set aside for them. Fabbri was a top six before he got hurt and the Blues still see him possibility being that. You may think it's crazy but is it any different than Peyton Manning returning as the starting QB after missing all that time with neck surgery? We don't know what Fabbri will be but youth is on his side. I prefer trying Hoffman again with his two years over Patchs because that reason. Two years and if you can use Sobotka who is the more likely to be traded which I think either player you have to give up a contract guy for the Blues cap. They want Tavares and another guy like Patch or Hoffman, they have to clear the room.

If it was me yes I add two players. for the top six if possible. Fabbri and Steen can be the sixth guy depending on who looks better coming out of training camp and pre season. Third line (I love it to be Tage, Barb, and Steen) Berglund who be nice to move as well as he so streaky I mean he was so bad at one time they bench the guy. The thing the Blues have to keep creating cap space and move the deader weight for more long term. Just think about two years from now. Half the current Defense will be gone and the team is weak in the minors for defense players. Schenn contract as well.

 

[beowulf]

oh right the good ol ppg argument.
yeha you are right. ROR with three seasons of 55+ and three more at 60+ is = Galchenyuk with 1 season of 55+ and 0 seasons over 60.

the difference between a 1C and a 2nd line winger isnt a 2nd. get real

Ohhh gawd here he goes again....

Let's compare the same seasons in their careers...

O'Reilly
81 8 18 26
74 13 13 26
81 18 37 55
29 6 14 20
80 28 36 64
82 17 38 55


Galchenyuk
48 9 18 27
65 13 18 31
80 20 26 46
82 30 26 56
61 17 27 44
82 19 32 51


Hmmm seems like very similar career paths so far. So yes O'Reilly is a little better on offence and more rounded on defence but there is an age gap, O'Reilly has matured more, he has not been run around like the Habs have done with Glachenyuk and then there is the contract difference. O'Reilly is paid like a really great number 1C but he is more of a really great 2C. Yes he would be the 1C in Montreal right now but at that cap hit no thanks.

 

[beowulf]

Career ppg for a guy like ROR, who entered the league at 18 after being taken 33OA and played a defensive role for his first 2 seasons, is disengenuous at best. His worst ppg since then is .67 and Galchenyuk has only eclipsed that twice.

And it's disingenuous to then not take into account the BS Galchenyuk has endured HIS ENTIRE CAREER in Montreal playing anywhere from the first to the fourth line and at center (where he played some of his best hockey) and on the wing.

While he is not blameless the Habs did a fine job screwing up his development, especially that clown Therrien.

 

[jfhabs]

ROR’s o zone faceoff percentage was in the low 40’s his rookie year, worse than even Foote. Galchenyuk’s was in the high 50’s. Totally different usage.

Regardless, it’s clear that those first two years were outliers when viewing his career as a whole. That his recent low point is above his career average should tell you all you need to know about the relevance of the average.

ROR is better than Galchenyuk in pretty much every facet of the game by a not-insignificant amount. If I was Buffalo, I’d need a pretty big add if Galchenyuk is the return.

Meh, defensive game yes. Offensive game no. Galchenyuk is a better goal scorer. Pretty big add is relative. I think 35th-38th overall is a significant piece. I would probably add something small (lindgren/ikonen), not a highly likely top 4 young dman.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You don’t care, or you don’t like the answer?

Both. When you resort to a confrontational conversation.

 

[tucker3434]

Meh, defensive game yes. Offensive game no. Galchenyuk is a better goal scorer. Pretty big add is relative. I think 35th-38th overall is a significant piece. I would probably add something small (lindgren/ikonen), not a highly likely top 4 young dman.

Is he? Other than Galchenyuk’s 30 goal seasons, ROR scored more goals.

 

[jfhabs]

Is he? Other than Galchenyuk’s 30 goal seasons, ROR scored more goals.

Galchenyuk scores more per 60min played. It should also increase since he's now entering his prime.

 

[webersshot]

Galchenyuk as a base for o’reilly is pretty fair I think ‍ Why’s everyone hate each other?

 

[Jared Dunn]

I used to think Friedman knew stuff when I was younger. He's brutal. Any poster here could do his job at this point.

Do you think news just appears every day? The dude's job is a hockey writer and broadcaster, he has to create content when there isn't tangible stuff happening

 

[schnapshot]

Came here to see people wanting Patches on their team while trying to undermine his value... Wasn't disappointed

 

[Habs Halifax]

Is he? Other than Galchenyuk’s 30 goal seasons, ROR scored more goals.

ROR has scored 155 goals over 651 NHL games (0.24 goals/game) while Galchenyuk has scored 108 goals in 418 games (0.26 goals/game).

 

[Habs Halifax]

Galchenyuk as a base for o’reilly is pretty fair I think ‍ Why’s everyone hate each other?

Fair but I'm not making that deal.

 

[Mdamico]

I'm not sure what the exact value of Max is, nor do I want to debate it with everyone. However, the concept of a Sign and Trade and whether it's done on Draft Day or July 1st will certainly play into the possible return. Here's a few options the Habs have in order to get Max extended and traded.
Sign and Trade: NHL Edition - Scrimmage and Stats