Proposal: TB/MTL: Domi and Gourde?

[HoseEmDown]

If you don't understand why Tatar merits a 1st + and feel he is a fair comparable to Gourde / Johnson then you have problems. Habs do not want your capdumps period. Johnson's contract will end when he is well in his 30's. He's a terrible buy option. Gourde was just a mistake in giving him that big contract.

Good luck dumping them on someone else though. Habs would have less than zero interest and i suspect that would be the same for all GM's in the league. Except maybe Benning?

Tatar is having a career year, so if you want to buy high on him then you can spend those ridiculous assets on him. He was never that big a scorer before either, one 50+ point season, playing with Datsyuk and Zetterberg. He failed miserably the last time he was traded for a big return which will scare teams off. Tatar is a late 1st + B prospect type player, the ask on him from Habs fans is ridiculous.

So players just fall off a cliff at 30 now? Johnson will be fine the next 4 years, he won't be the 70 point player he once was but the 45-55 player he really is. Kinda like Tatar who's never come close to 70 and is more a 45 point guy. Gourde does a lot more than put up points, his contract is fine it's just a cap crunch for us which makes him available. He's definitely a top bottom 6 player in the league and would be a good middle 6 on just about any other team. We aren't trying to pawn them off either, a Tampa fan wasn't the OP.

 

[Bouboumaster]

I don't hate Gourde or anything, but I don't think it's a good idea to go for a center, if we trade one. The Habs are in a position where they won't make the playoffs, and have some good prospects that can play center at soon as next year. I'd try to go for a young player/prospect that can play LHD or RHD, in the eventually that we trade Petry. Like Dumba or Brodin, for exemple.
Again, nothing against Gourde.

As a side note tho: Petry > Shattenkirk, easy

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Tatar is having a career year, so if you want to buy high on him then you can spend those ridiculous assets on him. He was never that big a scorer before either, one 50+ point season, playing with Datsyuk and Zetterberg. He failed miserably the last time he was traded for a big return which will scare teams off. Tatar is a late 1st + B prospect type player, the ask on him from Habs fans is ridiculous.

So players just fall off a cliff at 30 now? Johnson will be fine the next 4 years, he won't be the 70 point player he once was but the 45-55 player he really is. Kinda like Tatar who's never come close to 70 and is more a 45 point guy. Gourde does a lot more than put up points, his contract is fine it's just a cap crunch for us which makes him available. He's definitely a top bottom 6 player in the league and would be a good middle 6 on just about any other team. We aren't trying to pawn them off either, a Tampa fan wasn't the OP.

Gourde a "top" bottom 6 player in the league. Its type of bullshit that makes me laugh. He's a capdump.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I don't hate Gourde or anything, but I don't think it's a good idea to go for a center, if we trade one. The Habs are in a position where they won't make the playoffs, and have some good prospects that can play center at soon as next year. I'd try to go for a young player/prospect that can play LHD or RHD, in the eventually that we trade Petry. Like Dumba or Brodin, for exemple.
Again, nothing against Gourde.

As a side note tho: Petry > Shattenkirk, easy

Its the TBL lightning though so you can make a case for Shattenkirk > Petry and Johnson / Gourde > Tatar / Gallagher.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Gourde a "top" bottom 6 player in the league. Its type of bull**** that makes me laugh. He's a capdump.

Yet he has a career high in points that your boy Tatar has never reached. That's the type of bull**** that makes me laugh. Only one of them has been an actual cap dump.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Yet he has a career high in points that your boy Tatar has never reached. That's the type of bull**** that makes me laugh. Only one of them has been an actual cap dump.

His career high was in 2015. You want to make a case for Vinny Lecavalier now based on his stats from a decade ago?

TBL fans need to deal in the now and in reality.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

TBL forum posters are absolutely the worst. You can't accept that any of your players are under-performing. There's always an excuse followed by other teams would be lucky to have the likes of Gourde / Johnson at their caphits.

Here's a newsflash for you - Those guys are bad bets due to their contracts and lack of production. I don't see anyone trading for them unless salary is going back.

Rich. It's like you make things up in your head and it becomes a reality. You still skirt around the fact that Johnson is a 20 goal scoring centre winger only making 5 million a year. In your mind does 20 goal scoring centre winger make like 3 million a year? What do you value that at?

Using your logic, I can then safely say that Drouin is a cap dump?

 

[DFC]

Yet he has a career high in points that your boy Tatar has never reached. That's the type of bull**** that makes me laugh. Only one of them has been an actual cap dump.

Also important to note he put up those points while spending the majority of his time on the 3rd line. Gourde contributes a lot, so long as he's in a decent situation. He just should never be the best player on his line.

I see no way he waives for Montreal though. Or just about anywhere else. I don't think he's getting traded.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Rich. It's like you make things up in your head and it becomes a reality. You still skirt around the fact that Johnson is a 20 goal scoring centre winger only making 5 million a year. In your mind does 20 goal scoring centre winger make like 3 million a year? What do you value that at?

Using your logic, I can then safely say that Drouin is a cap dump?

Drouin is 24 and still developing. Johnson is 29 (30 in July) and on the path to regression. Big difference.

And if Drouin ends up producing 45 to 50 points for the remainder of his contract then he would be under-performing and a bad contract.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Also important to note he put up those points while spending the majority of his time on the 3rd line. Gourde contributes a lot, so long as he's in a decent situation. He just should never be the best player on his line.

I see no way he waives for Montreal though. Or just about anywhere else. I don't think he's getting traded.

But wait... he's on the TBL where your 3rd line is the equivalent of the Habs 1st!

Excuses is all you have for his lack of production. If he was producing, he might be on the top 2 lines!

 

[DFC]

But wait... he's on the TBL where your 3rd line is the equivalent of the Habs 1st!

Excuses is all you have for his lack of production. If he was producing, he might be on the top 2 lines!

Well, I'm pretty sure Brayden Point spent part of that year on the 3rd line with him, so...

 

[HoseEmDown]

His career high was in 2015. You want to make a case for Vinny Lecavalier now based on his stats from a decade ago?

TBL fans need to deal in the now and in reality.

So let's deal in the now. From reading the trade board's Montreal has two 1C in Danault and Domi, top line wingers in Tatar, Kovalchyuk, Drouin and Gallagher, two 1D in Weber and Petry as well as an elite goalie in Price. Yet they aren't in the playoffs and are trying to trade just about all those players. I think Habs fans need a reality check and realize their players aren't that good and they won't be getting the returns they're asking for.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

So let's deal in the now. From reading the trade board's Montreal has two 1C in Danault and Domi, top line wingers in Tatar, Kovalchyuk, Drouin and Gallagher, two 1D in Weber and Petry as well as an elite goalie in Price. Yet they aren't in the playoffs and are trying to trade just about all those players. I think Habs fans need a reality check and realize their players aren't that good and they won't be getting the returns they're asking for.

I think Habs fans realize that during this injury riddled season, our players weren't good. No Habs fans believe Danault / Domi are bonafied 1C's. Domi played like a 1C last season but has not this season.

The returns will be dictated by the market and on whether MB wants to trade Petry / Tatar. I expect he won't trade them until possibly next season, especially if he doesn't get his quote. That's the beauty of term on the contract. Plus, the Habs need Petry badly.

The return on Kovalchuk should be a 3rd or maybe a 2nd if there is a bidding war. Will see.

So what's your point?

One could argue that the Habs are better off trading their best players now and sacrifice playoffs next season. There is nothing worse than making the playoffs only to get swept in the first round!

 

[Junohockeyfan]

So let's deal in the now. From reading the trade board's Montreal has two 1C in Danault and Domi, top line wingers in Tatar, Kovalchyuk, Drouin and Gallagher, two 1D in Weber and Petry as well as an elite goalie in Price. Yet they aren't in the playoffs and are trying to trade just about all those players. I think Habs fans need a reality check and realize their players aren't that good and they won't be getting the returns they're asking for.

And for the record, there are many fans of the Habs who overrate their players just as there are many TBL fans who overrate theirs. There is actually TBL fans debating whether Petry is an improvement over Shattenkirk. I even saw an offer on the TBL tradeboard of:

TBL's 1st (late first) + 4th liner Joseph + token french midget Barre Boulet (undrafted) for Petry @ 50%

There are idiotic proposals everywhere!

 

[HoseEmDown]

I think Habs fans realize that during this injury riddled season, our players weren't good. No Habs fans believe Danault / Domi are bonafied 1C's. Domi played like a 1C last season but has not this season.

The returns will be dictated by the market and on whether MB wants to trade Petry / Tatar. I expect he won't trade them until possibly next season, especially if he doesn't get his quote. That's the beauty of term on the contract. Plus, the Habs need Petry badly.

The return on Kovalchuk should be a 3rd or maybe a 2nd if there is a bidding war. Will see.

So what's your point?

One could argue that the Habs are better off trading their best players now and sacrifice playoffs next season. There is nothing worse than making the playoffs only to get swept in the first round!

Not really. We got swept in 2014 and made the SCF in 2015. So I expect a similar run with a better end result this time.

 

[DFC]

And for the record, there are many fans of the Habs who overrate their players just as there are many TBL fans who overrate theirs. There is actually TBL fans debating whether Petry is an improvement over Shattenkirk. I even saw an offer on the TBL tradeboard of:

TBL's 1st (late first) + 4th liner Joseph + token french midget Barre Boulet (undrafted) for Petry @ 50%

There are idiotic proposals everywhere!

One guy. And that one guy is Dom. You can't take his opinions to be representative of the fanbase.

 

[HoseEmDown]

And for the record, there are many fans of the Habs who overrate their players just as there are many TBL fans who overrate theirs. There is actually TBL fans debating whether Petry is an improvement over Shattenkirk. I even saw an offer on the TBL tradeboard of:

TBL's 1st (late first) + 4th liner Joseph + token french midget Barre Boulet (undrafted) for Petry @ 50%

There are idiotic proposals everywhere!

That token French midget was the AHL rookie of the year and led all AHL rookies in goals and points, he's also top 10 in points this year. Another French midget in Gourde has a better career high in points than Tatar or Gallagher, another French midget in Marchessault, who we helped develop, also has career highs better than all your forwards but Kovalchuk. So maybe a French midget is what you need.

What do you really expect a return on Petry to be? Cause a 1st + A/B prospect, Barre-Boulet is probably our 3rd best, + young roster player isn't a bad return.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

That token French midget was the AHL rookie of the year and led all AHL rookies in goals and points, he's also top 10 in points this year. Another French midget in Gourde has a better career high in points than Tatar or Gallagher, another French midget in Marchessault, who we helped develop, also has career highs better than all your forwards but Kovalchuk. So maybe a French midget is what you need.

What do you really expect a return on Petry to be? Cause a 1st + A/B prospect, Barre-Boulet is probably our 3rd best, + young roster player isn't a bad return.

Nobody wants that french midget and career AHLer who is 22 years old. I can't think of a worse player for the Habs who are already height challenged. Now clearly you thought that ridiculous proposal was fair value. Which shows that you too are completely biased and overvalue your players.

What do we want for Petry at 50% retention??? 1st + A-level prospect at a minimum. Barre-Boulet is a D prospect that no team wants. No team wanted to draft him and he is a career AHLer. Say it to yourself... Career AHLer. He won't get a sniff at the NHL.

What is insulting is that TBL fans add two french canadians (one a 4th liner and the other a career AHLer) thinking that would be enticing. Its bullshit crap offer that is unbelievably laughable.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

One guy. And that one guy is Dom. You can't take his opinions to be representative of the fanbase.

Hosemdown thinks the bullshit offer for Petry @ 50% retention was fair. That makes 2 out of ~8 TBL fans. lol

 

[DFC]

Hosemdown thinks the bull**** offer for Petry @ 50% retention was fair. That makes 2 out of ~8 TBL fans. lol

I think the offer is too much. Not because the value is off, but because we don't really need Petry.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I think the offer is too much. Not because the value is off, but because we don't really need Petry.

Make that 3 out of 8 TBL fans. LOL

 

[DFC]

Nobody wants that french midget and career AHLer who is 22 years old. I can't think of a worse player for the Habs who are already height challenged. Now clearly you thought that ridiculous proposal was fair value. Which shows that you too are completely biased and overvalue your players.

What do we want for Petry at 50% retention??? 1st + A-level prospect at a minimum. Barre-Boulet is a D prospect that no team wants. No team wanted to draft him and he is a career AHLer. Say it to yourself... Career AHLer. He won't get a sniff at the NHL.

What is insulting is that TBL fans add two french canadians (one a 4th liner and the other a career AHLer) thinking that would be enticing. Its bull**** crap offer that is unbelievably laughable.

Gourde would likely be on your second line. People said the exact same things last year about JT Miller.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Nobody wants that french midget and career AHLer who is 22 years old. I can't think of a worse player for the Habs who are already height challenged. Now clearly you thought that ridiculous proposal was fair value. Which shows that you too are completely biased and overvalue your players.

What do we want for Petry at 50% retention??? 1st + A-level prospect at a minimum. Barre-Boulet is a D prospect that no team wants. No team wanted to draft him and he is a career AHLer. Say it to yourself... Career AHLer. He won't get a sniff at the NHL.

What is insulting is that TBL fans add two french canadians (one a 4th liner and the other a career AHLer) thinking that would be enticing. Its bull**** crap offer that is unbelievably laughable.

I'd be shocked if there are many other members of the Habs fan base that agree with you on your hot takes.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Well I thought Habs fans were more knowledgeable then they are but apparently they aren't. If you think Barre-Boulet is a D prospect and a career AHLer, at 22, I don't have anything else to offer. Lock er up, I'm out.

 

[DFC]

Make that 3 out of 8 TBL fans. LOL

What? I'm not overly interested in Petry because I think he would cost too much? I understand Petry is a very good player, much better than Shattenkirk. That doesn't mean I want to pay for him. Our prospects very often develop longer than other prospects, so the guys you're calling trash... Well, we're used to that. Half our top six is filled with guys this board once called "trash."