Proposal: TB/MTL: Domi and Gourde?

[VoluntaryDom]

Dom, can you get me a WAR assessment on Lehkonen?

last one, im done now

 

[Junohockeyfan]

View attachment 321339
last one, im done now

What does his salary equate to?

 

[DFC]

FWIW, I don't think you've been the one who's been arrogant whatsoever.

I tend to agree with much of what you're saying.

Also, scouting Kovalchuk makes sense, but it's also possible they're looking to fill the bottom lines. I'd defer to you on that one, as I don't know if guys like Thompson or Cousins could be added for depth. Nothing that would cost more than late picks.

Our fanbase is pretty split on exactly WHAT we're trying to add. Some people say a center, some people say a D. If it's a D, it's a depth D. If it's a C, it's a 3C. Personally, I think we're trying to add a winger who can add physicality to the top-6. But I think Kovalcuk could be a Plan B, or even C.

I don't think any TB fan expects we would land Domi for Gourde (if Gourde were willing to waive, which I seriously, seriously doubt), but I just don't like him getting brushed off as if his situation plays no part in his poor numbers.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

What does his salary equate to?

over 5.2M if i just use this season and last, under 4.5 if i use all 3 seasons

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Petry is way better than Shattenkirk. As always your hot takes on player values are hilarious

shattenkirk has played pretty damn awesome for the bolts this year. he has as much WAR this season as petry does this season and last combined.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

over 5.2M if i just use this season and last, under 4.5 if i use all 3 seasons

I think if you take the WAR salary output and divide by 2, you are in the current NHL real-world. Lehks is earning 2.2 M.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Petry is way better than Shattenkirk. As always your hot takes on player values are hilarious

shattenkirk has played pretty damn awesome for the bolts this year. he has as much WAR this season as petry does this season and last combined.

 

[DFC]

Who said he's a 4th liner anywhere?

Why don't you understand why i wouldn't want his contract and 45 points is not enough to justify 5.2M for another 5 seasons. Especially when he's regressed to ~30 points this season and doesn't have a long track record to hang your hat on. That contract is way too long.

At what point did I say you'd want the contract? What I said was he would likely play on MTL's second line, based on his talent. He's not on TB's 2nd line because he's not one of TB's four best wingers right now.

And 45 points is about what 5m players put up in 2020.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

I think if you take the WAR salary output and divide by 2, you are in the current NHL real-world. Lehks is earning 2.2 M.

no you just keep choosing players who are valued higher by WAR than they are by mainstream evaluation methods

 

[Junohockeyfan]

but I just don't like him getting brushed off as if his situation plays no part in his poor numbers.

You can say that about pretty much any under-performing player. Whether or not he can play on the Habs 2nd line is irrelevant. James Neal could probably play on our 2nd line as well and i don't want that contract.

 

[DFC]

You can say that about pretty much any under-performing player. Whether or not he can play on the Habs 2nd line is irrelevant. James Neal could probably play on our 2nd line as well and i don't want that contract.

Well, every time I said he'd likely be in your top 6, you called me arrogant, and now here you are telling me James Neal could do it.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Well, every time I said he'd likely be in your top 6, you called me arrogant, and now here you are telling me James Neal could do it.

Its debatable whether he could be on our top-6 when healthy. Domi/Suzuki, Gallagher, Tatar, Drouin. Before injury, Drouin was playing like our best forward. Gourde likely is on the 3rd line.

 

[ole ole]

Gourde would likely be on your second line. People said the exact same things last year about JT Miller.

Really .
Let me see .Does he replace
Tatar, No
Gallagher,Not a chance
Drouin- um NO
Suzuki -Keep dreaming.
Keep your overpaid 3 line player and we will keep Domi.

 

[DFC]

Really .
Let me see .Does he replace
Tatar, No
Gallagher,Not a chance
Drouin- um NO
Suzuki -Keep dreaming.
Keep your overpaid 3 line player and we will keep Domi.

I have no interest in Domi. Just defending Gourde. He's in a bad situation right now but he's a good player.

It's also worth noting that three of those players are better in MTL than on their previous team. Maybe situation has something to do with that? But, of course, that couldn't possibly also apply to Gourde.

 

[Lockin17]

Gourde at 5mil is pretty much a cap dumb now.

MTL : Domi
vs
Tampa : Nolan Foote + 1rs 2020 + Cap dumb (5mil) Gourde

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Knowing the way each team operates I will predict this.

Gourde plus prospect and or pick for Tatar.

It works out like the Pacioretty trade for Montreal where they get the lesser player in return plus futures.

It works out for Tampa as they get a clear cut upgrade to their top six.

Cap hits are close.

Having watched well over 150 games of each player I can tell you Tatar is not the better player.

 

[DFC]

Gourde at 5mil is pretty much a cap dumb now.

MTL : Domi
vs
Tampa : Nolan Foote + 1rs 2020 + Cap dumb (5mil) Gourde

We're not paying to get Gourde off the books. I don't know who started this thread, but it wasn't a TB fan. I don't think we'd be able to get Gourde to waive, but, if we did, he would get a return. We got a solid return for JT Miller, who was in Gourde's exact situation last year, 5v5, but had the benefit of 1st unit PP time. Their ES numbers are very similar.

No interest in Domi. Can't afford his RFA contract, and don't need another smallish skill guy.

 

[ole ole]

I have no interest in Domi. Just defending Gourde. He's in a bad situation right now but he's a good player.

It's also worth noting that three of those players are better in MTL than on their previous team. Maybe situation has something to do with that? But, of course, that couldn't possibly also apply to Gourde.

Note those same 3 players were better than Gourde when they played on previous teams so what is your point?

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

We're not paying to get Gourde off the books. I don't know who started this thread, but it wasn't a TB fan. I don't think we'd be able to get Gourde to waive, but, if we did, he would get a return. We got a solid return for JT Miller, who was in Gourde's exact situation last year, 5v5, but had the benefit of 1st unit PP time. Their ES numbers are very similar.

No interest in Domi. Can't afford his RFA contract, and don't need another smallish skill guy.

I can’t see how Tampa will afford their 3 RFA contracts this year as is, Cirelli/Serg/Cernak must be looking at close to $10MM combined. I can’t see a GM trading value for Gourde given his $/term/performance and Tampa having to be a motivated seller

 

[DFC]

I can’t see how Tampa will afford their 3 RFA contracts this year as is, Cirelli/Serg/Cernak must be looking at close to $10MM combined. I can’t see a GM trading value for Gourde given his $/term/performance and Tampa having to be a motivated seller

We're going to have to trade Killorn, for starters. His NTC becomes relaxed after this season. We'll send him west to a playoff team is my guess. Killorn's having the year of his life, but his playoff numbers have always been good, and we'll get decent value out of that. Sad day, but I don't see any way around it.

Then we're gonna need Cirelli and Sergachev to take less than market value. We have a good history of making that happen. This will be the toughest off season yet though, no doubt.

 

[DFC]

Note those same 3 players were better than Gourde when they played on previous teams so what is your point?

Were they? How many of them had a season like Gourde has had? Players don't do well when their role is reduced.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

Who's taking that bad contract on?

5 million for a guy that gets you good defensive play and 40-50 points isn't a bad contract, i'm afraid.

 

[FiveHole Surprise]

Thank you for proving my point as to the delusional evaluations of Habs fans. Zero chance that happens, and you need to work on your reading comprehension. Tatar - or any non-ELC player for that matter - with term is the very last thing we want.

And he has nowhere near that sort of value to begin with. If you want Vancouver’s 1st then it’s Suzuki coming our way, not Tatar. Don’t want to do that? I don’t blame you, but then you can stop demanding pieces that aren’t available for players we really don’t want in the first place.

Well looks like reality just proved that you're the delusional one. Fans always value 1st round picks way to highly. Tatar could easily fetch a 1st in this market.

 

[Qwijibo]

Thank you for proving my point as to the delusional evaluations of Habs fans. Zero chance that happens, and you need to work on your reading comprehension. Tatar - or any non-ELC player for that matter - with term is the very last thing we want.

And he has nowhere near that sort of value to begin with. If you want Vancouver’s 1st then it’s Suzuki coming our way, not Tatar. Don’t want to do that? I don’t blame you, but then you can stop demanding pieces that aren’t available for players we really don’t want in the first place.

You were saying? Lmao.
Tampa won’t trade for a player with term?
Tampa won’t move Vancouvers 1st or either Foote brother? Especially for a player of St Tatar’s quality? I’d say Tampa just did exactly what you said would never happen.

 

[HuGo Sham]

You were saying? Lmao.
Tampa won’t trade for a player with term?
Tampa won’t move Vancouvers 1st or either Foote brother? Especially for a player of St Tatar’s quality? I’d say Tampa just did exactly what you said would never happen.

welcome to HF trade boards!