Proposal: TB/MTL: Domi and Gourde?

[BobbyShehan]

Heard from M. McGuire on the Habs radio broadcast. There were 3 major scouts from Tampa at the game against the Bruins last night. Bolts need a center and signed Gourde to a 5 mil. a year contract just a couple of years back. Gourde hasn't been producing this year. Doubt the Habs wanna sign Domi for what I think he'd want. Domi's got better stats and, to me, is the better player. What would the Bolts add?

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[Pia8988]

A player much better than gourde. Why would montreal want him?

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Add Cal Foote and a 2nd round pick

No reason for the habs to trade Domi for a much worse player unless something else valuable comes back.

 

[BobbyShehan]

A player much better than gourde. Why would montreal want him?

Because they wouldn't want to give Domi the contract he wants... So get a talented winger, albeit overpaid (which they can afford) and a few other pieces. Draft's in Mtl this year.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Because they wouldn't want to give Domi the contract he wants... So get a talented winger, albeit overpaid (which they can afford) and a few other pieces. Draft's in Mtl this year.

If the habs, who have plenty of cap space, can't afford Domi's next contract, how in the world can tampa afford it?

 

[MasterMatt25]

This doesn't really make sense. Domi's next cap hit is probably gonna be greater than Gourde's, limiting Tampa's cap even more. And I really don't see why Gourde would be appealing other than he's Quebecois

 

[DFC]

If we're scouting Montreal, I can't see how it's Domi.

If we move Gourde, which would be hard to do, we wouldn't be able to take money back.

It's more likely we're looking at Kovalchuk. Maybe Petry, but my guess is we're doing due diligence on the guy everybody knows could be available.

 

[BobbyShehan]

If the habs, who have plenty of cap space, can't afford Domi's next contract, how in the world can tampa afford it?

Domi will still be an RFA and is a good 2 mil below Gourde's cap hit. Mtl can definitely afford to give Max a big raise. Doubt they want to. They can easily absorb Gourde's salary for the next 2-3 years if they get some good pieces in return.

 

[BobbyShehan]

If we're scouting Montreal, I can't see how it's Domi.

Again, Domi will still be RFA this summer. And aren't you looking for a 3rd line C?

 

[Habsrule]

Knowing the way each team operates I will predict this.

Gourde plus prospect and or pick for Tatar.

It works out like the Pacioretty trade for Montreal where they get the lesser player in return plus futures.

It works out for Tampa as they get a clear cut upgrade to their top six.

Cap hits are close.

 

[DFC]

Nobody really knows what we're looking to add. I don't think it's a 3C, personally. We have a team full of centers.

Domi's an RFA... and how do we sign him?

And that's to say nothing of Gourde's NTC. I don't see this being plausible.

 

[frapp10]

If we gonna trade Domi then it will be for a left hand defencemen or we will add to him for a better forward

 

[Qwijibo]

Pittsburgh inquired about Domi prior to the Zucker trade and were told he isn’t available. Doubt they’d turn down Pittsburgh then trade him inside their division.

 

[AndreRoy]

Let’s be clear about a couple of things.

For starters, Gourde is by no means a cap dump. He’s in the same position Miller was last season: pushed to our bottom six by the depth ahead of him and ending up on our fourth line for balance purposes. He obviously isn’t going to do a lot of scoring playing with two offensively-challenged rookies. But he’s still great defensively and as he’s shown the last couple of games he can be productive offensively when put on the ice with skilled players. We would be open to moving him (if possible - he has a full NTC) because we could use the cap space for higher priority players, but he does not have negative value.

Second there is no realistic scenario in which Montreal gets Cal Foote so you can all stop asking for him. He’s our only defensive prospect worth a damn and his cheap contract makes him worth his weight in gold. He’s not going anywhere. Nor is his brother likely to be available, as he’s the only forward prospect we have with obvious top six potential and we’re going be moving on from some of our aging veterans over the next few years; unless you’re offering Suzuki (which I very much doubt) you can forget about Nolan Foote as well. Dipping into our prospect pool for rentals has not been a part of the organization’s philosophy over the last several years and with things getting tight capwise this summer I don’t see that changing - certainly not with our most valuable prospects. Rentals are a luxury; cheap quality replacements for our cap casualties in the coming years are a vital necessity.

Now that we have that out of the way, let’s talk possibilities. I don’t see us going for Domi - he’d be too expensive (both to acquire and to extend) and as I said we need our top prospects to fill key holes cheaply in the near future. Something around Tatar for Gourde would at least be intriguing, as we would get a small cap savings and more importantly free ourselves of Gourde’s full NTC (assuming he would be willing to waive to play close to home); we could then flip Tatar in the summer if necessary. Unfortunately I’m fairly certain Montreal fans value Tatar far more highly than we would, so I’m not sure there’s any common ground to be found there - at least as far as discussions on this site are concerned.

 

[Qwijibo]

Let’s be clear about a couple of things.

For starters, Gourde is by no means a cap dump. He’s in the same position Miller was last season: pushed to our bottom six by the depth ahead of him and ending up on our fourth line for balance purposes. He obviously isn’t going to do a lot of scoring playing with two offensively-challenged rookies. But he’s still great defensively and as he’s shown the last couple of games he can be productive offensively when put on the ice with skilled players. We would be open to moving him (if possible - he has a full NTC) because we could use the cap space for higher priority players, but he does not have negative value.

Second there is no realistic scenario in which Montreal gets Cal Foote so you can all stop asking for him. He’s our only defensive prospect worth a damn and his cheap contract makes him worth his weight in gold. He’s not going anywhere. Nor is his brother likely to be available, as he’s the only forward prospect we have with obvious top six potential and we’re going be moving on from some of our aging veterans over the next few years; unless you’re offering Suzuki (which I very much doubt) you can forget about Nolan Foote as well. Dipping into our prospect pool for rentals has not been a part of the organization’s philosophy over the last several years and with things getting tight capwise this summer I don’t see that changing - certainly not with our most valuable prospects. Rentals are a luxury; cheap quality replacements for our cap casualties in the coming years are a vital necessity.

Now that we have that out of the way, let’s talk possibilities. I don’t see us going for Domi - he’d be too expensive (both to acquire and to extend) and as I said we need our top prospects to fill key holes cheaply in the near future. Something around Tatar for Gourde would at least be intriguing, as we would get a small cap savings and more importantly free ourselves of Gourde’s full NTC (assuming he would be willing to waive to play close to home); we could then flip Tatar in the summer if necessary. Unfortunately I’m fairly certain Montreal fans value Tatar far more highly than we would, so I’m not sure there’s any common ground to be found there - at least as far as discussions on this site are concerned.

Tatar with term starts with Vancouvers 1st and you add from there. He’s had 6 consecutive 20+ goal seasons and is near a point a game this year. They aren’t giving him away with significant value coming back. I’m not sure a 5’9” C moves the needle for a team that already has their share of small forwards and has another on the way in Caufield

 

[AndreRoy]

Tatar with term starts with Vancouvers 1st and you add from there. He’s had 6 consecutive 20+ goal seasons and is near a point a game this year. They aren’t giving him away with significant value coming back. I’m not sure a 5’9” C moves the needle for a team that already has their share of small forwards and has another on the way in Caufield

Thank you for proving my point as to the delusional evaluations of Habs fans. Zero chance that happens, and you need to work on your reading comprehension. Tatar - or any non-ELC player for that matter - with term is the very last thing we want.

And he has nowhere near that sort of value to begin with. If you want Vancouver’s 1st then it’s Suzuki coming our way, not Tatar. Don’t want to do that? I don’t blame you, but then you can stop demanding pieces that aren’t available for players we really don’t want in the first place.

 

[Qwijibo]

Zero chance that happens, and you need to work on your reading comprehension. Tatar - or any non-ELC player for that matter - with term is the very last thing we want.

And still you suggested Tatar for Gourde (with Tampa flipping Tatar in the summer. My reading comprehension is just fine

 

[AndreRoy]

And still you suggested Tatar for Gourde (with Tampa flipping Tatar in the summer. My reading comprehension is just fine

I assumed by your ludicrous demand that you meant post-July 1st with an extension. It’s even more absurd that you think Tatar has that sort of value with one more year left on his deal. Like I said, your evaluations of your players are insane and there’s no rational discussion to be had with you. In any event it’s a moot point, as there’s no way Gourde would waive to go from the hottest team in the NHL to a team with little chance of even glimpsing the playoffs in the foreseeable future.

 

[DFC]

Tatar with term starts with Vancouvers 1st and you add from there. He’s had 6 consecutive 20+ goal seasons and is near a point a game this year. They aren’t giving him away with significant value coming back. I’m not sure a 5’9” C moves the needle for a team that already has their share of small forwards and has another on the way in Caufield

We just have no reason to do that.

I really think all that's happening here is we're taking a look at Kovalchuk.

 

[Qwijibo]

I assumed by your ludicrous demand that you meant post July 1st with an extension. It’s even more absurd that you think Tatar has that sort of value with one more year left on his deal. Like I said, your evaluations of your players are insane and there’s no rational discussion to be had with you.

You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. You’re the one who suggested a Tatar for Gourde swap. If you think a perennial 20 goal guy who’s close to a point a game and is signed for $4.8m for another season isn’t worth a 1st +. Then you’re the one who’s insane.

 

[AndreRoy]

We just have no reason to do that.

I really think all that's happening here is we're taking a look at Kovalchuk.

A far more likely scenario. Of course Habs fans think he’s worth a 1st+ as well.

 

[Qwijibo]

We just have no reason to do that.

I really think all that's happening here is we're taking a look at Kovalchuk.

And that’s fair. I was just saying Tatar for Gourde isn’t a fit for Montreal. And a signed Tatar is worth a 1st +.

 

[Qwijibo]

A far more likely scenario. Of course Habs fans think he’s worth a 1st+ as well.

No. He likely goes for a 2nd. No way in hell Kovalchuk brings a 1st

 

[AndreRoy]

You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. You’re the one who suggested a Tatar for Gourde swap. If you think a perennial 20 goal guy who’s close to a point a game and is signed for $4.8m for another season isn’t worth a 1st +. Then you’re the one who’s insane.

For starters I didn’t suggest it - I was responding to a Habs fan who brought it up. Second you’re demanding what will likely be a mid 1st rounder along with other pluses IN ADDITION to a good two-way forward signed for the next several years. Let’s not forget that before finding himself a victim of Cirelli’s rise (which knocked him out of the top six) Gourde was scoring 20+ goals a season too, while playing far superior defense to Tatar. If anything Tatar for Gourde is close to an even swap given the difference in term; any gap between them is certainly nowhere near a 1st, much less with additional pluses on top of that. But yeah, I’m the crazy one.

 

[Qwijibo]

For starters I didn’t suggest it - I was responding to a Habs fan who brought it up. Second you’re demanding what will likely be a mid 1st rounder along with other pluses IN ADDITION to a good two-way forward signed for the next several years. Let’s not forget that before finding himself a victim of Cirelli’s rise (which knocked him out of the top six) Gourde was scoring 20+ goals a season too, while playing far superior defense to Tatar. If anything Tatar for Gourde is close to an even swap given the difference in term; any gap between them is certainly nowhere near a 1st and additional pluses on top of that.

Now who’s reading comprehension is in question. Where did I say a 1st plus Gourde +? I didn’t. I said Gourde isnt a fit and a Tatar trade would be a 1st +.