Proposal: Tavares for Karlsson

[DoobieDubas]

They could afford him if they traded Tavares for him

So why wouldnt we just trade him to ottawa in the first place and ignore the sharks lol? because hes not signed and hes been injured recently.

So your saying SHarks get tavares signed at a 2.5 mil discount for 7 years than what they offered Tavares to sign there as a FA and he said no and signed with the leafs for 11? This is a few days after you got an Unextended karlson for trash. If that happened id personally give DW the best gm of all time.

 

[yababy]

It won't be Tavares, it'll be Matthews for an extended Karlsson

 

[67 others]

Same. I am probably the only sharks fan living in East coast Canada and I nearly ejaculated upon hearing we got Erik Karlsson and gave up no major Roster players. Pacioretti got more of a return than Erik Karlsson and that is crazy.

Jesus f***ing christ.

We will have Burns on 1 pairing for 25 minutes a game and Karlsson on another for 25 minutes a game.

That is nightmarish for opposing coaches to match up against in a way they cannot just line match to deal with. Offensive defensemen of that Caliber tend to tilt the ice the other way regardless of which forwards are on the ice in front of them.

Coaches plan their home ice line matching based on "I want Kopitar covering Thornton's line with Doughty's pairing and Carter covering Couture's line with Doughty and his 2nd partner" since Doughty can play 27-30 minutes a game. But this changes the landscape in unforeseen ways.

Coaches count on the oppositions top offensive Defenseman and top players being tired after a Powerplay and going for a rest on the bench so they can throw out an energy line or rested 2nd line and rest their best defensive Dmen if their top Pkers are their #1 Dman and top two way Center.

If Burns and Karlsson trade up evenly on PP time with even forward lines, one will still be able to come out guns blazing immediately after a Sharks PP with rested forwards while the top checkers are sucking oxygen on the bench.

 

[Kelly]

Last year’s Karlsson is better than last year’s Tavares and it’s not even close. Karlsson was 1st in P/G for defenseman and 6th in points while missing 11 games and playing injured. Tavares played 82 games and was not even top-15 in points or points per game.

Over the past 3 seasons, Karlsson has a higher points per game than Tavares. 5 less points in 7 less games. Karlsson is a far, far better player than Tavares and that’s why this trade doesn’t work.

That's nice and all but I'm talking about the Karlsson I seen last year. Dude mailed it seemed like every time I watched him play, he was a fry cry from peak Karlsson. Still was probably better than Tavares at their respective positions, but all this ainec shit you're trying to sell I'm not buying (last year)

Peak Karlsson I'd agree.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

That's nice and all but I'm talking about the Karlsson I seen last year. Dude mailed it seemed like every time I watched him play, he was a fry cry from peak Karlsson. Still was probably better than Tavares at their respective positions, but all this ainec **** you're trying to sell I'm not buying (last year)

Peak Karlsson I'd agree.

And what Tavares did you watch last year? I saw Islanders fans shitting on Tavares’ effort way more than Senators fans shitting on Karlsson’s effort. And from what I saw from the both of them last year, Tavares was the one with much weaker effort; Karlsson was injured and still had a much more consistent effort. And this is what I said before the Sharks got Karlsson or were knocked out of the Tavares running.

I would still use AINEC to describe their play last year. Karlsson was still the best OFD last year despite his flaws defensively but Tavares was not even top-15 among forwards in scoring and he also was poor defensively.

 

[connormcmuffin]

And what Tavares did you watch last year? I saw Islanders fans ****ting on Tavares’ effort way more than Senators fans ****ting on Karlsson’s effort. And from what I saw from the both of them last year, Tavares was the one with much weaker effort; Karlsson was injured and still had a much more consistent effort. And this is what I said before the Sharks got Karlsson or were knocked out of the Tavares running.

I would still use AINEC to describe their play last year. Karlsson was still the best OFD last year despite his flaws defensively but Tavares was not even top-15 among forwards in scoring and he also was poor defensively.

I'm not going to argue against Karlsson being better than Tavares but to suggest Tavares was bad defensively? He reinvented his game two years ago and has been dominate on both sides of the ice. To suggest he was a liability last season is just not true.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

What actually happened: A few hockey writers voted for Tavares for the Selke for the 2016-2017 season.

The narrative that this has become:

I'm not going to argue against Karlsson being better than Tavares but to suggest Tavares was bad defensively? He reinvented his game two years ago and has been dominate on both sides of the ice. To suggest he was a liability last season is just not true.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

What actually happened: A few hockey writers voted for Tavares for the Selke for the 2016-2017 season.

The narrative that this has become:

nope. look into his numbers

 

[connormcmuffin]

What actually happened: A few hockey writers voted for Tavares for the Selke for the 2016-2017 season.

The narrative that this has become:

This 'narrative' actually emerged from advanced stats circles that are anti-media, Ian Tulloch (pushing this 'narrative) basically calls all those writers useless.

'What actually happened...' oof

 

[indigobuffalo]

I say this as a decades long die hard Leafs fan....they should be.

No they shouldn’t. This isn’t decades ago.

SAHDs are a thing of the past. Mobile, PMD are the present. Now, you can have guys like Rielly that are able to handle both ends of the ice, although Rielly is by no means a Byfuglien, but still very reliable.

The “Gunnarson” style defender is as relevant as the goon.

 

[WJCJ]

7 years of Tavares or 1 year of Karlsson? This should be unanimous for Tavares.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

Can you throw in a set of Shark pajamas? That would seal the deal!

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

nope. look into his numbers

This 'narrative' actually emerged from advanced stats circles that are anti-media, Ian Tulloch (pushing this 'narrative) basically calls all those writers useless.

'What actually happened...' oof

On a downright terrible team, Tavares was below average in CA/60 and GA/60, and his CA/60 rel and GA/60 rel were both above 0, meaning his teammates allowed more goals and shots attempts against when they played with him than when they played without him.

Care to show your advanced statistics that prove Tavares to be this elite two-way force that you describe him as?

 

[Tavares to Marner]

I say no then lose lots of sleep

good proposal but jt is a toronta boy and soon to be captain

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

On a downright terrible team, Tavares was below average in CA/60 and GA/60, and his CA/60 rel and GA/60 rel were both above 0, meaning his teammates allowed more goals and shots attempts against when they played with him than when they played without him.

Care to show your advanced statistics that prove Tavares to be this elite two-way force that you describe him as?

he was at 53 cf% (+7.4 rel) and 53.86 xgf% (+7.09 rel). not sure what's bad about that
also this
Five major contenders for the Selke Trophy this season - Sportsnet.ca

 

[Neutrinos]

From simply need perspective, this would be good trade.

Both teams still refuse politely.

I don't believe San Jose would refuse

They run the risk of losing Karlsson next summer for nothing, so it would make sense to take Tavares

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

he was at 53 cf% (+7.4 rel) and 53.86 xgf% (+7.09 rel). not sure what's bad about that
also this
Five major contenders for the Selke Trophy this season - Sportsnet.ca

That was 2016-2017. I’m looking at this most recent season.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

That was 2016-2017. I’m looking at this most recent season.

you specifically mentioned that he's only seen as good because he got some votes in 16/17. I was pointing out that his performance really was that good that year. I agree he took a step back last year though

 

[Critical13]

What actually happened: A few hockey writers voted for Tavares for the Selke for the 2016-2017 season.

The narrative that this has become:

Once again, JoeThorntonsRooster throwing around shade at a Leaf player and has nothing to back it up. Seems to be a trend lately.

There are a lot of guys to go after on our team and you pick John Tavares? Really?

The guy your amazing GM (no sarcasm) wanted to pay something in the ballpark of $13 million/year for, reportedly?

It's truly bizarre to see a Sharks fan, of ALL the fanbases, throw shade of Tavares after what went down this summer. If you had landed Tavares, Karlsson wasn't an option. Logically, I would have to think Wilson's first choice was to land John than to land Karlsson, or he would have attempted to make this deal earlier than when he traded for EK?

Either way, we won't know how either player reacts to their new positions. I just hope you don't hide or start a new account when John has a great year in Toronto. You've invested a lot of time telling us how lacklustre he is.

 

[joe dirte]

no thanks. i think there are other dmen out there that suit the leafs needs much better than karlsson and we'd get way better bang for buck.

that and he's on the last year of his deal and we have tavares for 7, says it's a hard no for me.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

you specifically mentioned that he's only seen as good because he got some votes in 16/17. I was pointing out that his performance really was that good that year. I agree he took a step back last year though

Part of it is probably because he really was checked out of that terrible Islanders team but there is definitely still reasons for concern.

At any rate, it’s hardly fair to say he has been a true dominant two-way force since 2016-2017 when he scored only 66 points in the season he was great defensively and then was bad defensively in the most recent season, where he scored 84 points. He’ll need to put two and two together and start doing the defense a lot more consistently.

Once again, JoeThorntonsRooster throwing around shade and has nothing to back it up. Seems to be a trend lately.

On a downright terrible team, Tavares was below average in CA/60 and GA/60, and his CA/60 rel and GA/60 rel were both above 0, meaning his teammates allowed more goals and shots attempts against when they played with him than when they played without him.

Care to show your advanced statistics that prove Tavares to be this elite two-way force that you describe him as?

Once again, the evidence is right here and you will choose to ignore it once again in favor of character attacks.

 

[joe dirte]

It won't be Tavares, it'll be Matthews for an extended Karlsson

yeah right. Hard, hard, HARD no to that. Not even close.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Part of it is probably because he really was checked out of that terrible Islanders team but there is definitely still reasons for concern.

At any rate, it’s hardly fair to say he has been a true dominant two-way force since 2016-2017 when he scored only 66 points in the season he was great defensively and then was bad defensively in the most recent season, where he scored 84 points. He’ll need to put two and two together and start doing the defense a lot more consistently.

I'd be happy if he was in 16/17 form and put up 65-70 points with excellent defense. he doesn't really need to bring that much offense

 

[Notsince67]

Same. I am probably the only sharks fan living in East coast Canada and I nearly ejaculated upon hearing we got Erik Karlsson and gave up no major Roster players. Pacioretti got more of a return than Erik Karlsson and that is crazy.

Jesus ****ing christ.

We will have Burns on 1 pairing for 25 minutes a game and Karlsson on another for 25 minutes a game.

That is nightmarish for opposing coaches to match up against in a way they cannot just line match to deal with. Offensive defensemen of that Caliber tend to tilt the ice the other way regardless of which forwards are on the ice in front of them.

Coaches plan their home ice line matching based on "I want Kopitar covering Thornton's line with Doughty's pairing and Carter covering Couture's line with Doughty and his 2nd partner" since Doughty can play 27-30 minutes a game. But this changes the landscape in unforeseen ways.

Coaches count on the oppositions top offensive Defenseman and top players being tired after a Powerplay and going for a rest on the bench so they can throw out an energy line or rested 2nd line and rest their best defensive Dmen if their top Pkers are their #1 Dman and top two way Center.

If Burns and Karlsson trade up evenly on PP time with even forward lines, one will still be able to come out guns blazing immediately after a Sharks PP with rested forwards while the top checkers are sucking oxygen on the bench.

So given the rumors of what SJ offered Tavares, are you ok with Karlsson being signed for north of $13MM?

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

So given the rumors of what SJ offered Tavares, are you ok with Karlsson being signed for north of $13MM?

I’ll be ecstatic if he signs for max term and AAV. $13M is an underpayment for a player like Karlsson.