Proposal: Tavares for Karlsson

[Confucius]

Settle down. Tavares easily has more value until Karlsson has an extension.

it also helps his value because he really wants to play here. It goes a long way when a player basically says its his dream team. you just don't trade a guy like that away.

 

[Leviathan]

It would need to be Burns for Tavares or Karlsson for Matthews.

From a purely needs perspective, yes, both teams would benefit.

Considering what Karlsson was just traded for, what makes you think Karlsson would fetch Matthews or anything close to that kind of player? The Sens couldn't even get Timo Meier.

You have to clarify if you mean actual NHL trade value or EA sports trade value though.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Lol do people actually think tavares is a better player than Kalrsson?

I guess it's the toronto maple leaf boost. I remember the days when Luke Schenn was better than Karlsson...

Remember, there is anti-Leaf bias in HFBoards. That’s why people think Tavares is even remotely comparable to Erik f***ing Karlsson.

Karlsson was just traded for trash and now you think he'll return Matthews a day later?

Obviously not, but if the Sharks are trading Karlsson to Toronto, it sure as hell isn’t going to be for Tavares.

Considering what Karlsson was just traded for, what makes you think Karlsson would fetch Matthews or anything close to that kind of player? The Sens couldn't even get Timo Meier.

You have to clarify if you mean actual NHL trade value or EA sports trade value though.

I don’t think Karlsson would fetch Matthews if traded. I think that if Karlsson is being traded to Toronto, Matthews is the piece that needs to be coming back.

And in case somebody thinks I’m being a homer because the Sharks just got Karlsson, here is a post that I made in a thread about Karlsson or Tavares, long before either player had changed hands from the team that drafted them, and back when we thought the haul for Karlsson would be significantly higher:

I wonder about both players. Both will be 28 at the start of next season.

Tavares' effort this season leaves much to be desired. If he comes in at 11M, he is immediately the 1C and he is immediately a big part of the leadership group. I didn't see enough of him to say anything, but the consensus was that he was checked out all season. For the past 5 years, he has generally ranked at the top of his team in advanced metrics, but his metrics were middle of the pack this year on a terrible Islanders team. Maybe somebody who watches that team more often can chime in as to why that is. After spending 10 minutes on HFBoards as my team battled elimination, down only 2 goals, because they looked totally checked out, I don't know if I want to add another player that just seems to check out at times. Despite that, he still scored 37 goals and 47 assists for 84 points; more than any player on our team today has ever scored.

Karlsson battled an injury this year and was not the same player as before, but his metrics actually ended up being mostly great, and his team was total trash this year. For a guy that probably had more of a right to be totally checked out, given rumors, and the death of his son (RIP), he played admirably.

I think Karlsson is pretty easily the better addition. Even with the regression of Burns, Karlsson will beef up the blue line of the Sharks to being near the NHL's best. San Jose can try to follow the Nashville model with Ryan, Burns, Karlsson, and Vlasic, but I don't know if that's the right model. Nashville is struggling because their forwards aren't up to par with Winnipeg's, and because Rinne sucks. Are San Jose's forwards better than Nashville's? I definitely think Jones>>>Rinne.

At the end of the day, give me Karlsson. This man single handedly carried a terrible Ottawa team towards being closer to defeating the Penguins than any other team has since the 2014-2015 season, and he did it with the same injury that plagued him this season. He is just the bigger game breaking talent and his skill set is more in line with the style the Sharks want to play.

It would be stupid to trade Karlsson for Tavares unless the Sharks are 100% uncertain of a Karlsson extension. Karlsson is just so much better.

 

[indigobuffalo]

How so? Toronto needs a defensive defenceman.

You mean Marincin? Polak?

Yes... okay...

Tell me... who have the Leafs drafted with 1st rd picks the past two years? Offensive mobile PMD defencemen.

So get over it, you Steve Simmons reading hack, the Leafs aren’t looking for a defensive defenceman.

 

[indigobuffalo]

This would be heinously stupid for the Leafs, even if EK was extended at $11M.

Tavares is worth a helluva lot more than just his value as a player. He’s a franchise star calibre player that signed with Toronto because he wanted to be on that one single team.

If you trade him... you basically tell every other Tavares down the road (Doughty? McDavid? etc) a big ol’ Eff to the You because apparently the Leafs aren’t interested in keeping guys who’d take such a huge risk, leaving millions of dollars on the table to sign with Toronto. “Nope, don’t care about that... let’s just wheel and deal. It’s just business.”

It’s not like reputation is a tangible thing, that is actually worth something in business.

 

[McVespa99]

Why would leafs do this?

They could have had him yesterday for Carrick, Leivo, and a pick.

Just couldn't afford him

They could afford him if they traded Tavares for him

 

[Liferleafer]

You mean Marincin? Polak?

Yes... okay...

Tell me... who have the Leafs drafted with 1st rd picks the past two years? Offensive mobile PMD defencemen.

So get over it, you Steve Simmons reading hack, the Leafs aren’t looking for a defensive defenceman.

I say this as a decades long die hard Leafs fan....they should be.

 

[Nashology]

At current time: Tavares is worth more
If EK has a contract: EK is worth more

With both signed, I THINK TO would keep Tavares. I don't think Tavares alone fetches EK signed but loyalty DOES mean something. You can feel safe the guy will want to stay in Toronto where you have no idea about EK.

 

[Stephen]

It would need to be Burns for Tavares or Karlsson for Matthews.

From a purely needs perspective, yes, both teams would benefit.

You just traded Rudolf Balcers, Dylan Demelo, Josh Norris, Chris Tierny and junk picks for Erik Karlsson and now it would "need to be Karlsson for Matthews?"

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

You just traded Rudolf Balcers, Dylan Demelo, Josh Norris, Chris Tierny and junk picks for Erik Karlsson and now it would "need to be Karlsson for Matthews?"

It’s sure as hell not going to be Tavares for Karlsson.

 

[Stephen]

It’s sure as hell not going to be Tavares for Karlsson.

You'd be better off with Tavares, but you're right, it's not going to happen.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

You'd be better off with Tavares, but you're right, it's not going to happen.

That isn’t the case, because even though Tavares fills the bigger need and plays the more important at center, Karlsson is so much better than Tavares that he still improves the team more.

 

[Kegsey]

Leafs can keep Tavares and try out scoring everyone with that defense. This is the best Sharks team we have iced and there's no way we change that.

 

[The Man with a Plan]

You'd have to give the Sharks a 1st round pick to compensate for the one they'd lose by trading Karlsson to the East this season. lol

Well the sharks could trade him to another team that would then flip him to the east... just to piss the sens off a little bit more lol

Hell Wilson signed that stipulation knowing full well he has a dozen other ways around it.

 

[Liferleafer]

Leafs can keep Tavares and try out scoring everyone with that defense. This is the best Sharks team we have iced and there's no way we change that.

Correct me if i am wrong....but isn't that the general idea?

 

[Kegsey]

Correct me if i am wrong....but isn't that the general idea?

Pretty sure the whole statement goes together. Out score them WITH THAT DEFENSE. It's not gonna be easy.

 

[Liferleafer]

Pretty sure the whole statement goes together. Out score them WITH THAT DEFENSE. It's not gonna be easy.

True, but the Leafs don't need an EK level upgrade at D, they need a solid top 4D that can play defense. Add that to the Tavares upgrade and it will be a little easier.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Well the sharks could trade him to another team that would then flip him to the east... just to piss the sens off a little bit more lol

Hell Wilson signed that stipulation knowing full well he has a dozen other ways around it.

Unfortunately, that roundabout measure would still cost the Sharks a 1st round pick. lol

 

[Sojourn]

An un-signed Erik Karlsson just isn't worth enough, and a signed Erik Karlsson might be more valuable than any single piece Toronto could offer. You just don't move a signed EK.

So, either way, neither team does it. San Jose is going to want to lock up Erik Karlsson, and if they can do so he's probably finishing his career there, and as an Anaheim fan I hate that thought. Health permitting, he's going to be amazing for them.

 

[Liferleafer]

An un-signed Erik Karlsson just isn't worth enough, and a signed Erik Karlsson might be more valuable than any single piece Toronto could offer. You just don't move a signed EK.

So, either way, neither team does it. San Jose is going to want to lock up Erik Karlsson, and if they can do so he's probably finishing his career there, and as an Anaheim fan I hate that thought. Health permitting, he's going to be amazing for them.

Burns, Karlsson,Vlasic,Braun....that's friggin' unreal. I am just happy Tampa didn't get him, they are tough enough without staring at a Hedman/Karlsson pairing.

 

[DDRhockey]

Value wise, it's obviously very close assuming Karlsson was extended. I don't think either team makes this trade though.

If Karlsson was extended, how is it close? Karlsson is a better player than Tavares unless he suddenly fell off a cliff.

 

[Sojourn]

Burns, Karlsson,Vlasic,Braun....that's friggin' unreal. I am just happy Tampa didn't get him, they are tough enough without staring at a Hedman/Karlsson pairing.

See, I'd be happier if Tampa Bay got them. My team has to stare down that defense.

I really admire the balls of the San Jose management to go all out like that, and taking a strength and improving it substantially. This might be the chance for San Jose to get that elusive Cup.

 

[Sojourn]

If Karlsson was extended, how is it close? Karlsson is a better player than Tavares unless he suddenly fell off a cliff.

Yeah, I'm not sure it is, especially when you consider age. Once you start creeping towards the 30's, I think you get more value from a defenseman than you do a forward. Not only is Karlsson the better player, but I'd expect better value from a long-term contract with Karlsson. Unless there are health issues, but that's difficult to plan for, and we're talking about a 28 year old.

So, you've got the better player and one in the discussion for best at his position, playing a position that typically ages better. I know which one I'd value more, if they both had long-term contracts. That's no knock on Tavares, but it's Karlsson.

 

[Kelly]

That isn’t the case, because even though Tavares fills the bigger need and plays the more important at center, Karlsson is so much better than Tavares that he still improves the team more.

If you're getting last year's Karlsson, than no, no he is not.

But your right, this isn't gonna happen and Leafs sure as hell wouldn't be trading Tavares for an unsigned Karlsson. Karlsson doesn't have that kind of value at the moment.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

If you're getting last year's Karlsson, than no, no he is not.

But your right, this isn't gonna happen and Leafs sure as hell wouldn't be trading Tavares for an unsigned Karlsson. Karlsson doesn't have that kind of value at the moment.

Last year’s Karlsson is better than last year’s Tavares and it’s not even close. Karlsson was 1st in P/G for defenseman and 6th in points while missing 11 games and playing injured. Tavares played 82 games and was not even top-15 in points or points per game.

Over the past 3 seasons, Karlsson has a higher points per game than Tavares. 5 less points in 7 less games. Karlsson is a far, far better player than Tavares and that’s why this trade doesn’t work.