Proposal: Tavares for Karlsson

[Sundinisagod]

Cool, we'll keep the best d-man in the world.

Calling them both stars is kind of disingenuous. It's like calling both Trump and the President of Nauru both powerful world leaders.

Matthews not a star??? He's more of a star than Karlsson is the best d-man in the world.

 

[Critical13]

We need to see what Karlsson's deal is first.

I think I would want to see how they both did on new teams as well. Both are on very good teams so it will be easier to remove that "what if".

 

[CanadienShark]

Matthews not a star??? He's more of a star than Karlsson is the best d-man in the world.

No, I'm more taking issue with the fact that the poster implied they're on the same level by labeling them both stars. It's a vast oversimplification, which I thought was made clear by my example.

 

[Sasso09]

Karlsson if signed is worth far more than Tavares.

And to those saying "leafs need a defensive defensemen" Karlsson is really good defensively stop living 3 years in the past. EK would easily be the best defensive Defensemen in Tor

 

[YakDavid]

its the whole signed Karlsson vs unsigned. Signed Karlsson has a higher value than Tavares. Unsigned he is less. Considering Karlsson is arguably the best defenceman in the league. In 3 of the past 5 years Karlsson has outscored Tavares. I know points aren't everything but thats pretty good considering one is a defenseman

 

[Sojourn]

I can't think of anywhere else in the world that values draft picks and defencemen more than HF boards.

I mean Karlsson is an excellent player, but he was just traded for a typical trade deadline rental haul and now he is worth Austin Mathews.

The return for Karlsson shows his value. Every team around the league would have been able to make an offer.

Then I guess Chris Pronger, with a lengthy contract, was worth just Lupul, Smid, and a 1st right? Never mind the fact that Edmonton would never have traded him if they really had a choice, because you don't move a player like that because you want to.

The high price of defensemen has already been established. It's been long established, and is constantly reinforced every year. One outlier deal, and one where no one thinks Ottawa got good value out of Karlsson doesn't change that. That's a fallacy.

No GM's are going to look at this deal as the new standard for elite defensemen. There are no phone calls happening right now where some GM is calling up, say, Nashville and saying "We can offer you more for Subban than Karlsson got." or Tampa Bay and saying "Have I got a great offer for Hedman!" It's not happening. I don't think you really believe that's the case either, so this is just you trying to defend your player through absurdity.

 

[Deuce Awesome]

Then I guess Chris Pronger, with a lengthy contract, was worth just Lupul, Smid, and a 1st right? Never mind the fact that Edmonton would never have traded him if they really had a choice, because you don't move a player like that because you want to.

Different era. Teams weren't as handcuffed by the salary cap at that point in time as it was just starting to bite. Plus that was a pretty good return for Edmonton, under similiar circumstances. A better return than what the Sens just got.

No GM's are going to look at this deal as the new standard for elite defensemen. There are no phone calls happening right now where some GM is calling up, say, Nashville and saying "We can offer you more for Subban than Karlsson got." or Tampa Bay and saying "Have I got a great offer for Hedman!" It's not happening. I don't think you really believe that's the case either, so this is just you trying to defend your player through absurdity.

No, but its a counter to the hype the other way when Hall was dealt for Larsson. Both are extremes on opposite ends. Just like after that deal when people thought the new price point for defence was "start with your best player and add a bunch"

Did Ottawa get ripped off, or is this just the marketplace? Im still not sold on Dorion only dealing with the Sharks, I mean no general manager could be that terrible at his job. When you have an asset you want to unload it for the highest price.

 

[Deuce Awesome]

No no, unsigned Karlsson is start with Mathews and add or the conversations starts with five first rounders or something....

 

[Sojourn]

Different era. Teams weren't as handcuffed by the salary cap at that point in time as it was just starting to bite. Plus that was a pretty good return for Edmonton, under similiar circumstances. A better return than what the Sens just got.

Did you miss the part where I said Pronger had a number of years on his contract? Edmonton also wasn't refusing to move Pronger to the Western Conference, which would have cut greatly into their offers.

No, but its a counter to the hype the other way when Hall was dealt for Larsson. Both are extremes on opposite ends. Just like after that deal when people thought the new price point for defence was "start with your best player and add a bunch"

Did Ottawa get ripped off, or is this just the marketplace? Im still not sold on Dorion only dealing with the Sharks, I mean no general manager could be that terrible at his job. When you have an asset you want to unload it for the highest price.

You're just exaggerating now. Everyone understood that the Hall and Larsson deal was an unusual one-for-one deal and that Edmonton did not get fair value for Hall. That's never really been in question. This idea that the Karlsson trade counters that is a silly one, because no one is looking at either of them as the basis for market value.

Well, almost no one, since you've clearly fallen into the trap. I think everyone else however is using common sense and understands that Hall for Larsson didn't set the market, and these assets for Karlsson doesn't either.

 

[Taluss]

Funny cuz the trade sounds ridiculous until you think about how much it would benefit both teams. Leafs need Karlsson much more then Tavares, Sharks really wanted Tavares. I’d do it if I was either team tbh (IF Karlsson is extended obv)

 

[Sojourn]

Funny cuz the trade sounds ridiculous until you think about how much it would benefit both teams. Leafs need Karlsson much more then Tavares, Sharks really wanted Tavares. I’d do it if I was either team tbh (IF Karlsson is extended obv)

If San Jose extends Karlsson, they'd rightly ask for more than Tavares.

Needs aside, Karlsson is simply better. That's just not a good deal for them at that point.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I think we're done here.