Movies: Star Wars: Episode VIII THE LAST JEDI December 15, 2017

[Cloned]

How I would rank the movies:

ESB > R1 > ANH > ROTJ = TFA > ROTS > AOTC > TPM

Yes, I thought pretty highly of R1. [spoil]For a movie where you are introduced to the characters who eventually die within the span of 2 hours, it does a pretty damn good job of making you care about them.[/spoil]

 

[The Gabe Blade]

How I would rank the movies:

Mine is close to that


ESB >ANH> R1 >TFA>ROTJ > ROTS >TPM> AOTC

 

[Jussi]

How I would rank the movies:

ESB > R1 > ANH > ROTJ = TFA > ROTS > AOTC > TPM

Yes, I thought pretty highly of R1. [spoil]For a movie where you are introduced to the characters who eventually die within the span of 2 hours, it does a pretty damn good job of making you care about them.[/spoil]

Apart from the two main characters, not really. Also: Bor Gullet! Bor Gullet!

 

[The Gabe Blade]

Apart from the two main characters, not really. Also: Bor Gullet! Bor Gullet!

I disagree. I think that Krennic, K2SO, Baze, and Chirrit were all excellent characters.
I could take or leave Bodhi

 

[Cloned]

Apart from the two main characters, not really. Also: Bor Gullet! Bor Gullet!

I cared more about the two main characters in R1 more than ANY character in TFA and more than any character in the PT except for Obi-Wan.

And Krennic was an amazingly well written villain. The whole interplay between him and Tarkin was pretty amazing actually.

What I loved most about R1 was its shades of grey. It wasn't as starkly "good and evil" as the PT, or even most parts of the OT. I'm hoping The Last Jedi follows in R1's footsteps. Like I posted earlier, make Luke an anti-hero or a semi-villain.

 

[tacogeoff]

Mine is close to that


ESB >ANH> R1 >TFA>ROTJ > ROTS >TPM> AOTC

mine would be pretty close as well

ESB >ANH> TFA>ROTJ >R1 you couldn't pay me to watch the first three again....well if it was a lot of money, then maybe I would consider.

 

[Takeo]

Empire Strikes Back 9/10
Return of the Jedi 8.5/10
Star Wars 7/10
The Force Awakens 5.5/10
Rogue One 5/10
Phantom Menace 3/10
Revenge of the Sith 2/10
Attack of the Clones 1/10

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

However we are unsure of how much of it he controlled and his ability to have his agenda met if he died. Not to mention the reason Palpatine had underlings was to usher in a new age of the Sith, and with him out of the picture you just have bureaucrats who formerly served a Sith Lord.

What you bring up could certainly be plausible, but if the movie doesn't make these kinds of things apparent then they cannot really be used to justify certain characterizations. Especially considering the implication is no matter what they did, they would not be able to stop from being destroyed (Mace makes it apparent that Palpatine could easily weasel out of a trial and being a Sith is kind of dangerous).

I know its not in the movie so people will, understandably, scoff at it but Palpatine was recording parts of the encounter with Mace as proof, obviously not recording parts about him being a Sith and his duel. It is in the novelization of RotS so it is canon

 

[Osprey]

I don't understand rating either of the two recent films ahead of Return of the Jedi. Yeah, it's the weakest of the original trilogy, but it's still part of the trilogy and has 75% of the magic of the first two films, IMO. Do TFA and R1 have 75% of the magic of ANH and ESB? I liked R1, but I wouldn't say that it's even half as magical or good as the originals.

RotJ gets criticized for the Ewoks (which I liked as a kid, but can understand the turnoff), the Death Star redux and slave Leia (again, never a complaint here). Those may pull it down from the perfection tier that the first two films were in, but I think that people nowadays tend to get so focused on those blemishes that they forget how much fun the rest of the film is, from Jabba's palace to the speeder chase and forest battle to the final duel between Luke and Vader to the epic final space battle. Were the best scenes in TFA and R1 even half as fun or memorable as those?

I just think that RotJ gets a little unfairly judged because it's easy to compare it to the first few films and come away with the thought that it's the weakest, while the two new films compare even less favorably to the first two, but have the benefit of 35 years of separation and filmmaking improvement. If one would prefer to watch TFA or R1 over RotJ, that's understandable, but I don't think that it means that they're better films, rather that it can be easier to watch an imperfect film that's 30 years more modern.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I cared more about the two main characters in R1 more than ANY character in TFA and more than any character in the PT except for Obi-Wan.

And Krennic was an amazingly well written villain. The whole interplay between him and Tarkin was pretty amazing actually.

What I loved most about R1 was its shades of grey. It wasn't as starkly "good and evil" as the PT, or even most parts of the OT. I'm hoping The Last Jedi follows in R1's footsteps. Like I posted earlier, make Luke an anti-hero or a semi-villain.

Can I just ask, why? To all of this.

 

[Cloned]

Can I just ask, why? To all of this.

Something about the Erso character resonated with me more than Rey's story in TFA - I thought R1 as a whole was generally better written and it gave slightly more depth and reliability to the characters and their situation. I will say that both R1 and TFA resonated with me more than any of the movies in the PT, where I felt like I was watching a cartoon bastardization of SW.

Krennic was a nicely multilayered villain interacting with another multilayered villain in Tarkin. Both are ruthless and conniving - one is soft spoken and calm with his power (Tarkin), the other is brash and flamboyant (Krennic). I thought their whole interplay just created a greater dynamic. It's murky because on some level you can relate to Krennic's sense of pride and desire for rightful recognition, while still abhorring his maleficence. At the same time you can admire Tarkin's professionalism; he's cold and calculating, but not bloodthirsty like Krennic is. Tarkin kills because he has to; Krennic kills because he enjoys it. It's a neat little dynamic between the two villains in a movie where you're supposed to root for the heroes, yet find yourself rooting for one of the villains over the other. Great writing, IMO.

That's the kind of optimal setup I think would serve The Last Jedi well. Except it'd resonate even more because Luke is a hallmark character, so people already have an attachment to him. Make it a three horse race between Rey, Luke and Kylo. Give Rey and Luke competing relatable motives, both trying to stop Kylo, but both with differing end goals and methods. Make Kylo a smarter character and have him realize this, and try to pit Rey and Luke against each other. Hint at Rey trying to balance the use of the dark and light side of the force together. You can create all kinds of interesting scenarios with this approach. Make it difficult for the audience to clearly pick who they want to cheer for, then end it on a Mexican standoff type cliffhanger into the next movie.

 

[Tawnos]

Too much good is somehow bad. Alrighty.

Also what argument are you trying to make? That Palpatine should have been left alive? Destroyed with some kind of other unknown game plan? What?

Too much of anything is bad. That's the reason we talk about balance.

One way or another, Palpatine needed to be deposed, if not killed. He needed to first be exposed for what he was, though.

 

[The Gabe Blade]

I don't understand rating either of the two recent films ahead of Return of the Jedi. Yeah, it's the weakest of the original trilogy, but it's still part of the trilogy and has 75% of the magic of the first two films, IMO. Do TFA and R1 have 75% of the magic of ANH and ESB? I liked R1, but I wouldn't say that it's even half as magical or good as the originals.

RotJ gets criticized for the Ewoks (which I liked as a kid, but can understand the turnoff), the Death Star redux and slave Leia (again, never a complaint here). Those may pull it down from the perfection tier that the first two films were in, but I think that people nowadays tend to get so focused on those blemishes that they forget how much fun the rest of the film is, from Jabba's palace to the speeder chase and forest battle to the final duel between Luke and Vader to the epic final space battle. Were the best scenes in TFA and R1 even half as fun or memorable as those?

I just think that RotJ gets a little unfairly judged because it's easy to compare it to the first few films and come away with the thought that it's the weakest, while the two new films compare even less favorably to the first two, but have the benefit of 35 years of separation and filmmaking improvement. If one would prefer to watch TFA or R1 over RotJ, that's understandable, but I don't think that it means that they're better films, rather that it can be easier to watch an imperfect film that's 30 years more modern.

It wasn't just the ewoks.
Return of the Jedi was the weakest of the prequels by a good margin.
I would rank Empire and Episode 4 as perfect 10s as movies. They are easily my two favorite movies ever. I would put other favorite movies ever. Return of the Jedi is about an 8.5.


Rogue One and TFA are both better movies IMO. I would rank them as 9s

 

[HanSolo]

I cared more about the two main characters in R1 more than ANY character in TFA and more than any character in the PT except for Obi-Wan.

And Krennic was an amazingly well written villain. The whole interplay between him and Tarkin was pretty amazing actually.

What I loved most about R1 was its shades of grey. It wasn't as starkly "good and evil" as the PT, or even most parts of the OT. I'm hoping The Last Jedi follows in R1's footsteps. Like I posted earlier, make Luke an anti-hero or a semi-villain.

I agree about Krennic vs Kylo Ren and Snoke (especially Hux).

But it's hard to care about Jyn and Cassian when they have such abrupt shifts in character with poorly developed characters. Rey may be a little dry and OP and Finn may be too much of a goofball but at least they're developed properly and are given the air to exude charm.

Jyn and Cassian get the benefit of a heroic and overarching plot significant death to pack a punch for their character but outside of that they didn't meet their potential. I don't think Rey and Finn quite did either but at least they'll be alive for one more movie. And for my money they were developed better and were a lot more likable.

 

[Blender]

Rogue One really didn't have character development. Having informed attributes about characters but having their actions be the exact opposite for the entire movie isn't development, it's lazy and poor storytelling.

 

[johnjm22]

Rogue One lacked imagination. Aside from the nice visuals, it's a completely mediocre movie.

 

[firewagonHOCKEY]

Rogue One was a samurai movie.

I liked it.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Rogue One really didn't have character development. Having informed attributes about characters but having their actions be the exact opposite for the entire movie isn't development, it's lazy and poor storytelling.

What is character development to you?

 

[Scandale du Jour]

So about that Last Jedi flick... when are we getting a real trailer?

 

[V13]

Rogue One was OK. Not good nor bad but a decent Star Wars movie.

That said it contain my favorite Star Wars scene of all time. You all know which one i'm talking about haha

 

[Blender]

What is character development to you?

The change a character goes through during a story. Telling us a character is one way, but never showing anything but the opposite isn't development. Show don't tell.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I agree about Krennic vs Kylo Ren and Snoke (especially Hux).

But it's hard to care about Jyn and Cassian when they have such abrupt shifts in character with poorly developed characters. Rey may be a little dry and OP and Finn may be too much of a goofball but at least they're developed properly and are given the air to exude charm.

Jyn and Cassian get the benefit of a heroic and overarching plot significant death to pack a punch for their character but outside of that they didn't meet their potential. I don't think Rey and Finn quite did either but at least they'll be alive for one more movie. And for my money they were developed better and were a lot more likable.

Kylo Ren is a better character than he is a straight up villain.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

The change a character goes through during a story. Telling us a character is one way, but never showing anything but the opposite isn't development. Show don't tell.

I've always found character development to not being all that important within the context of a story, personally. I agree with your current point - don't tell us and have him act the opposite, especially when the point isn't to show the character to be a hypocrite - but I don't think a character has to change, grow or regress within a story for it to be effective.

 

[Blender]

I've always found character development to not being all that important within the context of a story, personally. I agree with your current point - don't tell us and have him act the opposite, especially when the point isn't to show the character to be a hypocrite - but I don't think a character has to change, grow or regress within a story for it to be effective.

No I agree that character development isn't required for every story. I was just disputing that R1 had any.

 

[HanSolo]

Kylo Ren is a better character than he is a straight up villain.

I wouldn't disagree with that. As a character, Krennic isn't entirely innovative. But he is entertaining to watch.