Movies: Star Wars: Episode VIII THE LAST JEDI December 15, 2017

[Psyfer]

The company can't get enough. The concern is from the segments of audience that actually care about the films. Disney is trucking along with yet another calculated, corporatized, political, business model, cash cow franchise. Turning profound and beloved source material into another Marvel universe. That's disappointing.

I am convinced the segment of the audience that is "die hard" star wars fans are impossible to please they will find some way trash the movie regardless because its not the OT. Of course they will still watch the movie multiple times anyways just so they can find everything they hate about the movie.

The movies were created more for a newer generation in mind and have been quite successful and are very well received.

 

[ResilientBeast]

I have been more then fine with TFA and RO

I would say these films have restored some of the joy that I once found in Star Wars films as a kid, that joy was sucked out of me watching the mostly unwatchable prequels (ROTS only one that is watchable IMO)

Really don't understand the hate by some small (Very small) segment of Star Wars fans. I honestly doubt that anything can be done to make them happy and they will look for things to complain about no matter what

Frankly I would argue Disney acquiring franchise has saved it

Yeah I don't get the hate, the prequels did more damage to the franchise than Disney could ever do

 

[Shockmaster]

I have been more then fine with TFA and RO

I would say these films have restored some of the joy that I once found in Star Wars films as a kid, that joy was sucked out of me watching the mostly unwatchable prequels (ROTS only one that is watchable IMO)

Really don't understand the hate by some small (Very small) segment of Star Wars fans. I honestly doubt that anything can be done to make them happy and they will look for things to complain about no matter what

Frankly I would argue Disney acquiring franchise has saved it

Many of them seem to hate everything outside of the original trilogy because of the more modernized CGI and how often its used. Granted, many can argue Lucas overdid it in the prequels, but beyond that I'm not sure what you want the film makers to do. Use late 70's/early 80's CGI in all future Star Wars films?

 

[Tawnos]

I am convinced the segment of the audience that is "die hard" star wars fans are impossible to please they will find some way trash the movie regardless because its not the OT. Of course they will still watch the movie multiple times anyways just so they can find everything they hate about the movie.

The movies were created more for a newer generation in mind and have been quite successful and are very well received.

I'm a die hard fan. My brother is a die hard fan. Two of my best friends are die hard fans. Han Solo on here is a die hard fan.

We all love it.

 

[Tawnos]

Many of them seem to hate everything outside of the original trilogy because of the more modernized CGI and how often its used. Granted, many can argue Lucas overdid it in the prequels, but beyond that I'm not sure what you want the film makers to do. Use late 70's/early 80's CGI in all future Star Wars films?

Lucas was trying to recreate the kind of innovation that he had from the OT, but with CGI this time. Groundbreaking effects was considered a Star Wars tradition. And to be fair, he did that. There's a lot of things in the prequels that had pretty much never been done before, regarding CGI, or at least hadn't been done on the scale of what we saw there. The problem is that we almost immediately saw big improvements in CGI afterwards, so the movies were already dated in some ways before they were 5 years old.

 

[tacogeoff]

I have been more then fine with TFA and RO

I would say these films have restored some of the joy that I once found in Star Wars films as a kid, that joy was sucked out of me watching the mostly unwatchable prequels (ROTS only one that is watchable IMO)

Really don't understand the hate by some small (Very small) segment of Star Wars fans. I honestly doubt that anything can be done to make them happy and they will look for things to complain about no matter what

Frankly I would argue Disney acquiring franchise has saved it

I would agree with everything you just wrote, TFA and RO were fun/enjoyable films for me personally to watch. Disney has done a great job thus far and have expanded the reach of the Star Wars Universe by creating new fans via a younger generation who may not have viewed the originals.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

TFA and RO, no matter your personal opinion of them, were massive successes by any and all standards. Financially, critically, and fan reception wise they have been wildly successful. Of course, there will be a subset of fans disappointed with the direction they take the franchise, but that was going to happen no matter what they did. The Star Wars fan base is notoriously fickle and whiny.

I'd actually argue the opposite. In general terms, I find the Star Wars fanbase to actually be very easy on the product.

 

[Blender]

Lucas was trying to recreate the kind of innovation that he had from the OT, but with CGI this time. Groundbreaking effects was considered a Star Wars tradition. And to be fair, he did that. There's a lot of things in the prequels that had pretty much never been done before, regarding CGI, or at least hadn't been done on the scale of what we saw there. The problem is that we almost immediately saw big improvements in CGI afterwards, so the movies were already dated in some ways before they were 5 years old.

The big problem with the prequel trilogy is he was making all the decisions for everything with a bunch of sycophants surrounding him. The OT was a collaborative effort between a lot of very talented people, not just George Lucas making every decision.

 

[Osprey]

Many of them seem to hate everything outside of the original trilogy because of the more modernized CGI and how often its used. Granted, many can argue Lucas overdid it in the prequels, but beyond that I'm not sure what you want the film makers to do. Use late 70's/early 80's CGI in all future Star Wars films?

I'd like them to do what they did in Rogue One. They maintained the 70s/80s aesthetic of the original trilogy, with the clunky control panels, 70s-like monitor graphics, old style haircuts, used-looking props everywhere, hands-on feel to everything, characters in costumes and so on. While doing that, they integrated a good amount of CGI in ways that didn't stand out as CGI (well, minus the digital actors). They didn't add things into scenes to go "look, CGI!" like Lucas did with the prequels and the Special Editions.

Speaking of the prequels, one of the stupidest things that Lucas did to undermine his universe, IMO, was to fill them with CGI robot soldiers, especially ones that can transform between bipedal and spherical and throw up force fields. They're prequels, and are supposed to have technology older than the original trilogy, but look futuristic, instead. Also, if they could simply have robots do all of the fighting a few decades earlier, why would they eventually abandon that and go back to men in body armor? It makes no sense, but Lucas did it just because he could, thanks to new-fangled CGI, and because he thought that it'd be cool. He didn't understand or care anything about consistency in a universe.

Some may argue that films should adapt to fit the eras in which they're made, and that modern Star Wars episodes needn't honor the early 80s aesthetic and technology of the original trilogy, but that contributes to the charm of the universe. It's futuristic, but also retro. It's like post-apocalyptic settings, where part of the charm is that everything is stuck in a period decades earlier. For example, the new Mad Max film honored the 80s aesthetic of its franchise by not obviously incorporating anything that couldn't have been in the original films, and future films are likely to continue that.

I was very pleased with how Rogue One looked and I hope that further films continue with that, even though they're set in the future. The writers should fight the temptation to incorporate much "futuristic" stuff (like touchscreen panels, teleportation, cloaking devices and other common sci-fi conventions) because those things just aren't Star Wars, IMO, and directors should fight the urge to stylize things too much (ex. with lens flare and odd camera angles; i.e. things that Abrams is guilty of). You can use modern techniques, shoot in digital and employ CGI to make a stunning film while still honoring the Star Wars look. I think that Rogue One did that a little better than The Force Awakens and, even though these new films don't exactly thrill me, if further ones are similar in look and judicious usage of technology to RO, I'll be pleased.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Speaking of the prequels, one of the stupidest things that Lucas did to undermine his universe, IMO, was to fill them with CGI robot soldiers, especially ones that can transform between bipedal and spherical and throw up force fields. They're prequels, and are supposed to have technology older than the original trilogy, but look futuristic, instead. Also, if they could simply have robots do all of the fighting hundreds of years ago, why would they eventually abandon that and go back to men in body armor? It makes no sense, but Lucas did it just because he could, thanks to new-fangled CGI, and because he thought that it'd be cool. He didn't understand or care anything about consistency in a universe.

Seems pretty obvious why you wouldnt want a droid army. They are stupid and can be shut down, they seemed inferior in the field too. Only benefit is its probably cheaper than paying salaries and you dont need your own hundreds of thousands citizens to hire

 

[Blender]

Seems pretty obvious why you wouldnt want a droid army. They are stupid and can be shut down, they seemed inferior in the field too. Only benefit is its probably cheaper than paying salaries and you dont need your own hundreds of thousands citizens to hire

I don't think the Separatists were supposed to have anywhere near the manpower that the remaining Republic had, but they had huge amounts of wealth and manufacturing capability. So other than hire mercenaries, droids seems the way to do. The Republic didn't even have an army before the clones.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

I don't think the Separatists were supposed to have anywhere near the manpower that the remaining Republic had, but they had huge amounts of wealth and manufacturing capability. So other than hire mercenaries, droids seems the way to do. The Republic didn't even have an army before the clones.

The CIS were a bunch of planets and groups that left the Republic due to corruption. They didnt have a living army like the Republic didnt so yeah, droids were a quick and easy solution but they are clearly not ideal seeing as how mass produced battle droids arent going to be as good as an expensive well made one like HK-47

 

[Blender]

The CIS were a bunch of planets and groups that left the Republic due to corruption. They didnt have a living army like the Republic didnt so yeah, droids were a quick and easy solution but they are clearly not ideal seeing as how mass produced battle droids arent going to be as good as an expensive well made one like HK-47

Sure it wasn't high quality, but I can see their thought process there. The Republic has no army and only has a small force of Jedi to protect it. They probably assumed they could rush out a mass produced droid army and force the Republic to accept their independence and territory grabs with a limited number of battles.

 

[Tawnos]

Not for nothing, but the technology problem is easily explained by the overall degeneration of galactic civilization.

 

[johnjm22]

TFA and RO, no matter your personal opinion of them, were massive successes by any and all standards. Financially, critically, and fan reception wise they have been wildly successful.

The fact that these movies have done well financially doesn't really say much. Everyone knew they would pull in big box office numbers because of the built up excitement to see new SW movies in the ilk of the originals. TFA could have been Harrison Ford farting for 2 hours and it would have made a billion dollars.

TFA and RO are completely mediocre. Once the newness of Disney's SW films wears off, they'll actually have to make movies that are good enough to stand on their own merit or else the box office returns will dwindle and Star Wars will become "just another movie." Considering what we've seen from Disney thus far hoping they'll make something more than mediocre is wishful thinking.

 

[Hivemind]

I'll take almost everything from Disney over almost everything from the "EU."

 

[Osprey]

Oh dear. I started another prequel debate, just as we were getting back to the recent films.

Not for nothing, but the technology problem is easily explained by the overall degeneration of galactic civilization.

I thought about that, but that "easy explanation" is a lazy one, IMO. It seems like more of an excuse so that Lucas could be unrestrained in his use of technology and CGI. After all, what kind of degeneration is it if the Empire is able to build a massive, metal planet-killer in space? Are we to believe that they can accomplish that--something which had never been seen before, even in the prequel era--yet they somehow lost the capability of creating a droid or clone army? It's not even like it was hundreds of years ago and lost to the winds of time. It was only a few decades ago and some of the people who engineered the technology in the prequels are still alive (ex. Anakin).

Also, I probably look like I'm taking this really seriously, but how exactly does a whole galaxy degenerate, especially over the course of only a few decades? A planet or two can go to pot, but is every planet in the galaxy going to degenerate at the same time? Some will thrive and technology and knowledge will be safeguarded on them. Even if people decided to go back to simpler living and be farmers and such (like the Ba'ku in Star Trek: Insurrection), they'd still have access to knowledge and technology if they ever needed to use it (and the Empire forming and threatening the galaxy would be a good time to access it). I just find it hard to believe that a whole galaxy could irrevocably go from what we see in the prequels to what we see in the original trilogy over just a few decades. I think that Lucas just made up that excuse so that he could make a bright, kid-friendly prequel trilogy filled with dazzling CGI.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

My biggest problem with the prequels was that there really were no stakes. I mean sure, we saw some individuals in trouble and we saw one atrocity take place in Revenge of the Sith, but by and large we were talking about a war between faceless clones versus droids. Two armies could wipe themselves out and effectively nobody of note on either side would be lost. Not to mention that in the final days of the Republic you saw bustling traffic on Coruscant with grand parties taking place during a time when war weariness and the drain of the conflict should've impacted all levels of life in the Republic. For the average Coruscanti citizen, the fall of the Republic and the rise of the Empire would've just been another random day on your city planet. Ho-hum.

With Episode 7 and Rogue One, you almost constantly get to see the wear and tear that the conflict has on everyday people, both in the respective militaries and among civilian populations. That's been a big plus for me so far. I have issues with the new movies so far, but those are flaws in otherwise great experiences versus talking about holes in a bloated corpse like was the case for the prequels for me.

 

[Tawnos]

WTF whole galaxy are we talking about anyway? In the OT, we see an Outer Rim world, a couple of on the run rebel bases, a pre-tech civilization, a no-tech world without civilization, a smuggler's pieced together bucket... plus the pinnacle of tech in the Empire's vessels and a well-off trading post. In this, we consistently travel with two sentient droids.

In other words, it's only on Star Destroyers, the Death Star, and Cloud City that we aren't dealing with the very fringes of society. And in those places, the technology of the prequels doesn't exactly seem out of place.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Lucas was trying to recreate the kind of innovation that he had from the OT, but with CGI this time. Groundbreaking effects was considered a Star Wars tradition. And to be fair, he did that. There's a lot of things in the prequels that had pretty much never been done before, regarding CGI, or at least hadn't been done on the scale of what we saw there. The problem is that we almost immediately saw big improvements in CGI afterwards, so the movies were already dated in some ways before they were 5 years old.

Even if CGI never improved, it would still be regarded as bad CGI due to the way it was used and executed.

The space battle in Revenge of the Sith was impressive from the standpoint of how much they had to render and organize (and it didn't look bad visually). But it wasn't an impressive battle sequence because of the way it was implemented to serve the story.

 

[Tawnos]

Even if CGI never improved, it would still be regarded as bad CGI due to the way it was used and executed.

The space battle in Revenge of the Sith was impressive from the standpoint of how much they had to render and organize (and it didn't look bad visually). But it wasn't an impressive battle sequence because of the way it was implemented to serve the story.

Oh I agree. I think a lot of that comes down to approach. It's like they wanted to use CGI and were finding ways to implement the effects rather than having a story-driven need that they needed to innovate a special effects method for.

 

[Arizonan God]

The fact that these movies have done well financially doesn't really say much. Everyone knew they would pull in big box office numbers because of the built up excitement to see new SW movies in the ilk of the originals. TFA could have been Harrison Ford farting for 2 hours and it would have made a billion dollars.

TFA and RO are completely mediocre. Once the newness of Disney's SW films wears off, they'll actually have to make movies that are good enough to stand on their own merit or else the box office returns will dwindle and Star Wars will become "just another movie." Considering what we've seen from Disney thus far hoping they'll make something more than mediocre is wishful thinking.

That's your subjective opinion. I understand your criticisms, but they simply aren't widely held by the larger viewing and critical audience.

 

[HanSolo]

Just an update on episode 9...and it isn't good. The new script writer is the guy who wrote the allegedly horrible (I didn't bother with it) Harry Potter and the Cursed Child. Just looking through comments on that piece of writing, it seems as though there is non licensed Harry Potter fan fiction held in higher regard than The Cursed Child.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-episode-ix-gets-a-new-writer-1026003

And on top of that, Colin Trevorrow's latest film Book of Henry has a 33/100 on Metacritic. That's older news but after the drama with the Han Solo film (the choice on directors there was stupid as well) and Trevorrow's recent track record...it is baffling that Disney/Lucas would take a chance on the writer of the Harry Potter turd to close out the reboot trilogy.

I've been behind more Star Wars in the world but this move...its indefensible. I have hopes for The Last Jedi. Rian Johnson seems like he knows what he's doing. But Episode 9 looks like a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Why couldn't they get a consistent director for all three movies?

 

[Cloned]

Johnson is a great choice. The Trevorrow choice...not so good.

It's basically the SW equivalent of my Oilers taking McDavid #1 overall, then trading the rest of our first round picks that year for Griffin Reinhart.