SSM Greyhounds 2019-20 Season Thread

[HockeyPops]

Nice article. Owen Parsons* his name was misspelled twice.

 

[HockeyPops]

Avon, Mactavish...

Not so sure MacTavish Pinelli Stillman Othmann are put up for a Hayton as they are all red hot. Might come down to the second tier of first rounders (Avon, Harrison, Goure, Rolofs). Certainly Raftis would be still be in the drivers seat, and early indications are that he is gearing up for next year, so...

 

[HF92]

Not so sure MacTavish Pinelli Stillman Othmann are put up for a Hayton as they are all red hot. Might come down to the second tier of first rounders (Avon, Harrison, Goure, Rolofs). Certainly Raftis would be still be in the drivers seat, and early indications are that he is gearing up for next year, so...

I wouldn't settle for less. Hayton is valued at the top tier level. They may not budge at first but that east is gonna be a dog fight. Someone will budge ( I hope ) haha

Dude thank you! I didn't catch that.

 

[INTENTIONALLYOFFSIDE]

This isn't the youngest Hounds team in 5 years. They were younger last season.

I am just a casual observer of the league and not an insider like you; used elite prospects for the info and they say Soo was almost 1 year older last season. Regardless, the point was Malik is playing outstanding in a men's league behind older more experienced players; I don't see how coming to the Soo to play behind a talented young group of defensively inept players will raise his draft stock. Makes more sense to stay at home and continue to show well in a pro league.

 

[jjhound]

I am just a casual observer of the league and not an insider like you; used elite prospects for the info and they say Soo was almost 1 year older last season. Regardless, the point was Malik is playing outstanding in a men's league behind older more experienced players; I don't see how coming to the Soo to play behind a talented young group of defensively inept players will raise his draft stock. Makes more sense to stay at home and continue to show well in a pro league.

Strange for a casual observer to make such harsh comments about the defence. Taylor has managed to keep his GAA under 3.00 and his save percentage around .900. Have you not seen his games?

 

[INTENTIONALLYOFFSIDE]

Didn't mean to come off harsh but to the point. Soo is a skilled, talented young hockey team that has yet to figure out how to play in their own end. Most fans around the board did not think Soo would do much this year because of their youth.
My point wasn't to Taylor but to Malik coming over this season; it could be beneficial or it could drop his draft stock coming to such a young inexperienced team.

 

[jjhound]

Didn't mean to come off harsh but to the point. Soo is a skilled, talented young hockey team that has yet to figure out how to play in their own end. Most fans around the board did not think Soo would do much this year because of their youth.
My point wasn't to Taylor but to Malik coming over this season; it could be beneficial or it could drop his draft stock coming to such a young inexperienced team.

I understand. My point is that Taylor has managed very good numbers over a stretch of close to 5 full games against good teams in Peteborough, Owen Sound, Kitchener, Sudbury and also North Bay. If Malik is a quality goaltender he will show his potential here as well. Things will be fine in our end. We will have some struggles, but it will come together.

 

[HF92]

4 straight scratches for Barrett

 

[Fischhaber]

I am just a casual observer of the league and not an insider like you; used elite prospects for the info and they say Soo was almost 1 year older last season. Regardless, the point was Malik is playing outstanding in a men's league behind older more experienced players; I don't see how coming to the Soo to play behind a talented young group of defensively inept players will raise his draft stock. Makes more sense to stay at home and continue to show well in a pro league.

I'm not sure what your problem is, but most of your post is not true. Here are the numbers:

2018-2019: 18 years, 5 months, 25 days
2019-2020: 18 year, 6 months, 16 days

This defensively inept group of players has also given up the second fewest shots in the league at just over 28. Sorry to ruin your narrative, but goaltending and not defense is the problem.

A good defensive team that is primed for a strong 3 year run is exactly the type of place that Malik should be looking to play.

 

[HockeyPops]

2018-2019: 18 years, 5 months, 25 days
2019-2020: 18 year, 6 months, 16 days

When I go to EliteProspects, it says
2018-2019: 18.73 years
2019-2020: 17.78 years

 

[Fischhaber]

When I go to EliteProspects, it says
2018-2019: 18.73 years
2019-2020: 17.78 years

Try this website for accurate numbers. Both of those numbers are ridiculously off base.

Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds @ OHL - 2018‑2019 Stats

 

[INTENTIONALLYOFFSIDE]

Fischhaber, I don't have a problem, I have an opinion that differs from yours. Simple as that.
As far as age goes I had just read how young the Soo was and didn't think it was that accurate so I went to elite prospects (www.eliteprospects.com/team/620/sault-ste.-marie-greyhounds)
AVERAGE HEIGHT, WEIGHT, AGE PER SEASON

SEASON	ROSTER	AVG HEIGHT	AVG WEIGHT	AVG AGE
2019-2020	View roster	6'0"	179 lbs	17.78
2018-2019	View roster	6'0"	182 lbs	18.73
2017-2018	View roster	6'1"	189 lbs	18.81
2016-2017	View roster	6'1"	189 lbs	18.96
2015-2016	View roster	6'1"	192 lbs	18.60

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

If that is not correct then I shouldn't believe everything I read online....damn, does mean Elvis is not still alive!
Regardless of splitting hairs on age, The Soo is young and make some terrible defensive mistakes and you would expect that but they are still mistakes. You wish to argue they are not, so be it.

 

[Fischhaber]

Fischhaber, I don't have a problem, I have an opinion that differs from yours. Simple as that.
As far as age goes I had just read how young the Soo was and didn't think it was that accurate so I went to elite prospects (www.eliteprospects.com/team/620/sault-ste.-marie-greyhounds)
AVERAGE HEIGHT, WEIGHT, AGE PER SEASON

SEASON	ROSTER	AVG HEIGHT	AVG WEIGHT	AVG AGE
2019-2020	View roster	6'0"	179 lbs	17.78
2018-2019	View roster	6'0"	182 lbs	18.73
2017-2018	View roster	6'1"	189 lbs	18.81
2016-2017	View roster	6'1"	189 lbs	18.96
2015-2016	View roster	6'1"	192 lbs	18.60

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

If that is not correct then I shouldn't believe everything I read online....damn, does mean Elvis is not still alive!
Regardless of splitting hairs on age, The Soo is young and make some terrible defensive mistakes and you would expect that but they are still mistakes. You wish to argue they are not, so be it.

I provided you with the correct age numbers in a link above.

I don't know what is wrong with elite prospects' calculations, but I believe that they just take the birth years of the players and divide, which gives an artificially low number that will be one full year higher by January 1st. If you look the league's oldest team in Erie, you'll find that their average age is also down almost a full year.

I'm willing to discuss the perceived defensive shortcomings, but the two foundations of your argument are both falsehoods. The team is not as young as you think and they don't give up many chances, relative to the rest of the league. Come up with an educated argument backed up by facts and I'll be glad to have a discussion.

 

[dirty12]

Try this website for accurate numbers. Both of those numbers are ridiculously off base.

Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds @ OHL - 2018‑2019 Stats

That site has 30 player roster. Only 20 play, so average age on that site means very little, imo. It seems that your reference of the hounds performance while being last season’s youngest team is wildly inaccurate.
The Battalion start 9-11 players per game that are 16-17 yrs old. That’s a young team, imo.

 

[HockeyPops]

I decided to validate the age values given at Fischhabers website. I took their 2018-2019 roster and calculated the age of each player at the start of the 2018 season, then averaged the result. It was younger by over 3 months. Then I did the same calculation at the trade deadline last year. The result was very close to that site (18.50 years). Keep in mind this included players that barely played (Johnson, Peccia, Caron, Watson only had 6 total games between them.

I was going to do the same validation for this years team, but for some reason his site wouldn't provide detailed roster info. So I built the roster myself and did the calculation to this seasons trade deadline. (18.61 years). I did not include Jacklin as I don't think he played any games.

After going through the exercise I am very comfortable using the numbers from that site over Elite Prospects. I am not even sure how the Elite Prospects numbers are calculated. There are obviously different ways of calculating it, and there are pros and cons to each, but using every every carded player is at least a method that you could consistently repeat.

 

[dirty12]

You include 3 players that total 6 GP; but, don’t include Jacklin as you don’t think he has played. That is selecting numbers to validate Fischaber’s site selection. Take 20 skaters and 2 goalies that actually reflects the team on ice; then average the age, if you believe average age is meaningful.

 

[Savard18]

You include 3 players that total 6 GP; but, don’t include Jacklin as you don’t think he has played. That is selecting numbers to validate Fischaber’s site selection. Take 20 skaters and 2 goalies that actually reflects the team on ice; then average the age, if you believe average age is meaningful.

.....and it seems ridiculous and pointless to me if you’re not just basing it on whether they’re in their 16,17,18,19 or 20 year old seasons. If team x has 6 17yo’s born in March and team y has 6 17yo’s born in September that’s a 3 year difference but in reality it matters NONE. They’re all just 17yo’s.

 

[count35]

And you'd be CRAZY to even be thinking of keeping Hayton


Raftis can pick anyone he wants.. Peterborough and Ottawa will be HEAVY in on Hayton.

Avon, Mactavish...

I also like Butler from the Pete’s. Gives us some size we could use!!!

 

[dirty12]

I also like Butler from the Pete’s. Gives us some size we could use!!!

I doubt a contending team gives up a top 6-7 forward. Maybe they are willing to participate in a technically not allowed two part deal

 

[Fischhaber]

I decided to validate the age values given at Fischhabers website. I took their 2018-2019 roster and calculated the age of each player at the start of the 2018 season, then averaged the result. It was younger by over 3 months. Then I did the same calculation at the trade deadline last year. The result was very close to that site (18.50 years). Keep in mind this included players that barely played (Johnson, Peccia, Caron, Watson only had 6 total games between them.

I was going to do the same validation for this years team, but for some reason his site wouldn't provide detailed roster info. So I built the roster myself and did the calculation to this seasons trade deadline. (18.61 years). I did not include Jacklin as I don't think he played any games.

After going through the exercise I am very comfortable using the numbers from that site over Elite Prospects. I am not even sure how the Elite Prospects numbers are calculated. There are obviously different ways of calculating it, and there are pros and cons to each, but using every every carded player is at least a method that you could consistently repeat.

I explained above how elite prospects calculates their numbers and why they are inaccurate.

This year's Greyhounds are listed at 18 years, 6 months, and 16 days on Quanthockey, which is very close to your own 18.61 calculation. Elite prospects calculation of 17.78 is wildly inaccurate by any standard. That number is not useful in any sense of the word.

 

[count35]

I doubt a contending team gives up a top 6-7 forward. Maybe they are willing to participate in a technically not allowed two part deal

Agreed a top 6-7 forward in Butler, but, where would Hayton be in that forward group? Possibly top 2 if not 1?

 

[Fischhaber]

That site has 30 player roster. Only 20 play, so average age on that site means very little, imo. It seems that your reference of the hounds performance while being last season’s youngest team is wildly inaccurate.
The Battalion start 9-11 players per game that are 16-17 yrs old. That’s a young team, imo.

You are incorrect. The age numbers are weighted based on games played. I also didn't say that they were the youngest, just one of the youngest.

 

[HockeyPops]

You include 3 players that total 6 GP; but, don’t include Jacklin as you don’t think he has played. That is selecting numbers to validate Fischaber’s site selection. Take 20 skaters and 2 goalies that actually reflects the team on ice; then average the age, if you believe average age is meaningful.

You make it sound like I am cherry picking information to support some predetermined hypothesis. Let me be clear. I am doing no such thing. Quant Hockey is deciding which players to include, not me.

I have no interest in calculating average age for OHL teams, and maintaining this information year to year or even throughout the season as the roster changes. If you want to calculate it on a per game basis based on who dressed that game, be my guest. This is way to much work for me. Rather, I was working to validate the conflicting information provided by the two sites. I figured once we understood how the sites were deriving their numbers and confirmed their accuracy, it would give us more insight into this question of which numbers were more accurate.

I have not been able to come up with a calculation to validate the numbers provided by Elite Prospects, so I have no idea how they are calculating it. If you are able to determine the methodology that they use, and the calculations line up with their numbers, please provide that information, and we can have a debate as to the veracity of their numbers based on which players' ages they include/exclude from the calculation.

The purpose of my earlier post was to share the methodology used at Quant Hockey, which I have validated. I did not choose the players that Quant Hockey is including/excluding. They did. Debating whether or not their methodology is the best approach is certainly a valid topic. The reason I am more comfortable using those numbers over the elite prospect numbers is that at least I know how those number were derived and can attest to their accuracy, given the methodology used. Again, I can't attest to the Elite Prospect numbers.

 

[HockeyPops]

I don't know what is wrong with elite prospects' calculations, but I believe that they just take the birth years of the players and divide

I can't get this calculation to give me the numbers Elite Prospects gets. They must be doing something else.

.....and it seems ridiculous and pointless to me if you’re not just basing it on whether they’re in their 16,17,18,19 or 20 year old seasons. If team x has 6 17yo’s born in March and team y has 6 17yo’s born in September that’s a 3 year difference but in reality it matters NONE. They’re all just 17yo’s.

The NHL disagrees. Hence the Late Birthday September 15 cutoff for the NHL draft every year.

 

[HockeyPops]

The age numbers are weighted based on games played.

Interesting! This might explain the slight discrepancies between my calculations and those from the site. I don't think I am going to go down that road, as I never intended on doing complex calculations to validate these numbers.