sorry wall of text... the real study of chiarelli's last 5 years in boston

[DKH]

He reminds me of Heath Ledger playing The Joker. He's just getting lost in his character and forgetting whats real and whats fake.

That’s what happens

I’m always afraid I end up like Bela Lugosi in Ed Wood a has been

Maybe I’m there

 

[GloryDaze4877]

And as my friend Bradley has always pointed out in regards to the "half of Kane" comment:

Kane had 6 points and Seguin had 4 (while foolishly still being played on the 3rd line while the corpse of Jaromir Jagr took top line minutes).

Meanwhile Brad Marchand had 0. Zero points in that series.

And yet in their piece of **** propoganda they put it entirely on Seguin whose amazing pass in OT should have led to the game winning goal and potentially a series win, only he had to pass it Kaspars Daugavins because the GM left his team without any depth.

But again, Seguin's fault and he needed to be traded within 7 days, as though that package from Dallas wasn't going to still be there a month later.

Just my opinion, but I think Seguin’s play on the ice was a secondary reason why he was traded. The primary reason was because of his off ice behavior. Of course, the two are linked.

If Seguin had a lights out series and led the B’s to a second Cup, they wouldn’t have given a flying f*** what he was doing off the ice. I believe they thought he was one of those guys who couldn’t party and then show up to play the next day.


ps In Marchand’s defense, he did suffer a concussion in mid-April, right before the playoffs, on a hit by Anton Volchenkov. He stayed out the minimum time (7 days) and returned to the lineup, but didn’t look like the same player.

pss Maybe Seguin suffered a concussion as well? Probably got hit in the head by some stripper’s breasts and didn’t want to tell the team?

 

[DKH]

Doesn't it say something about the draft itself when the team does poorly for several years and then (2014) suddenly has a near perfect draft?

Did Chia suddenly learn how to draft or is the draft a real crapshoot?

Statistically using 246
Games as the standard for success in drafting (3 full regular seasons)

NHL average
Round 1 ~ 56%
Round 2 ~ 22%
Round 3 ~ 12%
Round 4 - 7 >10%

This is why I’m not buying a lot written here

In the third round only 4 of the 31 players will play 246 games

Statically you have 5 second round picks you should hit on one

 

[Gonzothe7thDman]

Statistically using 246
Games as the standard for success in drafting (3 full regular seasons)

NHL average
Round 1 ~ 56%
Round 2 ~ 22%
Round 3 ~ 12%
Round 4 - 7 >10%

This is why I’m not buying a lot written here

In the third round only 4 of the 31 players will play 246 games

Statically you have 5 second round picks you should hit on one

Or if you have standards like @LSCII you'll hit on 7th rounders

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Or if you have standards like @LSCII you'll hit on 7th rounders

Lonnie will hit on anything with lips and a heartbeat...

 

[Gordoff]

McGarnagle said: ↑

Stop perpetuating the Tim Thomas bad teammate false narrative. That **** was drummed up by fat Haggerty to get hits on his articles and profit from an increasingly polarizing political divide in the readership. The fact that the team slumped in the final weeks of the season has nothing to do with Thomas, Obama, or the white house.​

ton of fans will never understand this. right now they are all screaming how offended they are about the label on dougie Hamilton being a bad teammate. these fans have no freaking clue about how it works and never will because everytime someone tries to clue them in they scream stop speaking... stop saying this... I wont listen

youd love what aaron ward said on his hit on the montreal afternoon show yesterday

the question was… anyone you thought was a bad teammate?

ward says... the bruin had tenure... was a vet... so the team had to put up with his garbage. normally uniforms are hung crest out. this nitwit always hung his with his name out... so the guys intentionally flipped it back just to piss him off. ward said it got so bad with this guy and his idiot super stitious behavior on and off the ice... they went to the other team one night {players ex team} and told those guys... you can kill him tonight... we aren't going to lift a finger to help him

yeah... it went that far

ward said... one guy like this in the locker room can just kill moral and sink the entire team.

yeah... a player actually felt that way... and said it in those words for the record

its by far not the only time I heard players say this. I listen. I hear it.

if you got over your little one world view about these things... stopped imposing your sensibilities on it... and listened to what the players were saying... see the results... you might be able to catch on too

in the meantime I will do what small part I can in pointing out the 'unrelated' corolation between unique earth shattering things like this and the teams fall from grace

and others can say that the teams 5th-or 6th best forward getting hurt was enough to cripple the club lol

McGarnagle was referring to your mistaken assertion that Tim Thomas' politics was the reason for the downfall of the team.
While I agree with your take on Hamilton and I'm impressed with your opening narrative, I think it speaks to your opinion of Thomas' politics and not reality. You have no idea how or if that affected the team. You're blaming Thomas' not going to the WH for the XXXX that Chiarelli did? Foolish!
Re Hamilton, he was a legend in his own mind from way before the day that they drafted him, if Chiarelli did his homework he would've found out what the players character was and then stayed the XXXX away from him but no, Chiarelli was the smartest guy in the room!

 

[GordonHowe]

I remember some very passionate debates with a few of the board origionals over my take on harry sinden in the day

yes I always had to agree there was a certain amount of penny pinching when It came to depth players. it turns out from what ive learnt... sinden wasn't under orders of Jacobs to pinch those pennies. sinden was the one that just didn't feel he wanted to pay second tier players

it probably did cost us a cup or two...

that said... sinden was pretty damn amazing. he established a professional sports record for most consecutive playoff appearances {people will say it was easy to make the playoffs in those days with less teams... I will say hes the only one that did it}

he established a professional sports record for most consecutive 500 seasons... where the team wins as much as it loses. a lot of teams back then made the playoffs with losing records... we never did... we were always winners

sinden pulled off brad park trade... the cam neely trade... he drafted bourque after swindling the pick away from LA for cast off goalie ron grahame.

he... had his personality quirks... letting a lot of talented second line guys go instead of paying them... but our payroll was always in the top 5-10. it wasn't really that we were cheap as far as paying our stars go. guys like bourque/oates/neely were very happy to loyally stay with the team for years and years because he treated them very well

I like Chiarelli... im learning to like don Sweeney... but harry sinden was the best gm I saw here when you look at the total picture of what he accomplished

This is all fair, if that's what you believe. Not putting it down.

I hate Sinden, always have, always will. A thirty year playoff run is nice. What did it get the B's at the end of the day?

Someone on this board posted re an encounter with Mike Milbury, who backed what you said: It wasn't so much Mr. Burns penny pinching back then, it was effing Harry squeezing "until the pips squeak."

He's a f. in my book, however "great."

 

[Gordoff]

you mean replaced with elc… no amount of negotiating gets us a better deal unless the agents are completely incompetent

in that era... for 20 goal/40 point 3rd line centers getting PAID.... we have...

dave bolland
matt Stajan
brandon sutter
tyler bozek
artim anisimov
martin Hanzal
boyde Gordon
lori lehtenen
frans nelson

I might be missing a few... guys making 3 mill and more without being more than 3rd liners basically {bozek might have played a bigger role do to how bad his team sucked}

if either Kelly or peverly wasn't paid an equal/comparable sum they would have found it easily in this market

so our options were... pay or find equally/lesser paid guys that could still keep us competitive for another cup

{remember we won on depth... we weren't a superstar team... we did need our 3rd/4th lines to dominate their matchups}

the deals handed out were 3-4 year deals... and Chiarelli immediately started bringing in younger cheaper guys like soderberg/spooner to replace the vets. his choices were pretty good... both guys have very high profile high paid gigs on other teams now... and I guess we struggle 3 years after his firing to find our own 3rd line solution even now. backes…. wasn't a Chiarelli signing but came from the next guys... an older vet... signed for more money... with a nmc…

and who is the center for the 3rd line this year... can we blame Chiarelli for that? he hasn't been here for the past 3 years. we say Chiarelli should wave his magic wand and replace the 3rd line Kelly/peverly with elc guys... if its as easy as that why hasn't the guys who fired him able to do just what you say?

Heinen/donato/Bjork who may be on the 3rd line this year... all Chiarelli draft picks by the way. I guess he might have been planning to replace the vets with some elc guys after all...

Were they??? Or were they Keith Gretzky's picks? I'm asking, I don't know. BUT what I do know is that when someone is lousy at one aspect of their job, something needs to change to turn it around THAT much, and that something was Keith Gretzky IMO.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

McGarnagle said: ↑

Stop perpetuating the Tim Thomas bad teammate false narrative. That **** was drummed up by fat Haggerty to get hits on his articles and profit from an increasingly polarizing political divide in the readership. The fact that the team slumped in the final weeks of the season has nothing to do with Thomas, Obama, or the white house.​

McGarnagle was referring to your mistaken assertion that Tim Thomas' politics was the reason for the downfall of the team.
While I agree with your take on Hamilton and I'm impressed with your opening narrative, I think it speaks to your opinion of Thomas' politics and not reality. You have no idea how or if that affected the team. You're blaming Thomas' not going to the WH for the XXXX that Chiarelli did? Foolish!
Re Hamilton, he was a legend in his own mind from way before the day that they drafted him, if Chiarelli did his homework he would've found out what the players character was and then stayed the XXXX away from him but no, Chiarelli was the smartest guy in the room!

love your input... so I will answer one last time here. the politics were irrelevant other than he stuck his head out in a way hockey players never do... he drew attention to himself. he became the story

and then...

then he never opened his mouth ever again... its like the bear the knocks over the beehive and then lets everyone else get stung by the very angry little critters he trampled on

I honestly don't care if a player has an opinion on world events... but if you are going to go 100% against acceptable norm... and you want to create a s storm... then you need to be the one that mans up and deals with the fallout

Thomas was all no comment... not talking... no comment... and the team got the brunt end of those very awkward and unpleasant questions.

meanwhile Thomas home life... suffered. by the time the season was done he told us all he was moving to Colorado to live as a recluse because his home life had gone to crap.

I never for one second judge anyone for their politics... but he fired a shot over everyones head saying he wanted the attention... and then he let his team suffer and his own play suffered because of the consequences

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Were they??? Or were they Keith Gretzky's picks? I'm asking, I don't know. BUT what I do know is that when someone is lousy at one aspect of their job, something needs to change to turn it around THAT much, and that something was Keith Gretzky IMO.

again just because its you... ill answer my thoughts ive said many times before. I don't think gms make picks. I think gms 90% of the time or more let their scouts make the picks

but if Chiarelli is going to get the crap from some here that his drafting record sucks... then he should get the credit too if it doesn't suck

 

[Gordoff]

again just because its you... ill answer my thoughts ive said many times before. I don't think gms make picks. I think gms 90% of the time or more let their scouts make the picks

but if Chiarelli is going to get the crap from some here that his drafting record sucks... then he should get the credit too if it doesn't suck

Yeah sure but because he pretty much sucked at drafting until Keith Gretzky (I use the full name so nobody confuses him with his "other" brother) came along I can still blame Chia for not waking up earlier to the fact that his scouting picks sucked. IIRC, Gretzky was hired by Charlie Jacobs but I'm not sure it may just be my old mind making xxxx up!

 

[easton117]

love your input... so I will answer one last time here. the politics were irrelevant other than he stuck his head out in a way hockey players never do... he drew attention to himself. he became the story

and then...

then he never opened his mouth ever again... its like the bear the knocks over the beehive and then lets everyone else get stung by the very angry little critters he trampled on

I honestly don't care if a player has an opinion on world events... but if you are going to go 100% against acceptable norm... and you want to create a s storm... then you need to be the one that mans up and deals with the fallout

Thomas was all no comment... not talking... no comment... and the team got the brunt end of those very awkward and unpleasant questions.

meanwhile Thomas home life... suffered. by the time the season was done he told us all he was moving to Colorado to live as a recluse because his home life had gone to crap.

I never for one second judge anyone for their politics... but he fired a shot over everyones head saying he wanted the attention... and then he let his team suffer and his own play suffered because of the consequences

Wasn’t Pouliot on the team then, during Thomas’ last year?

That’s the guy I always blamed for that Washington loss. That black hole void of poor decision making and lousy hockey IQ.

Always thought it was fitting his turnover led to the final goal against that year. God I hated that guy

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Were they??? Or were they Keith Gretzky's picks? I'm asking, I don't know. BUT what I do know is that when someone is lousy at one aspect of their job, something needs to change to turn it around THAT much, and that something was Keith Gretzky IMO.

either he gets credit for the good picks and blame for the bad or drafting overall does not enter into the evaluation of him as a GM.

if you're going to say "no, it was Gretzky" then you also have to say the years of bad drafts are not Chiarelli's fault at all, it was the scouts that failed.

one more step, if you say "well who hired the scouts?", then you are giving Chia credit for the Gretzky picks.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

ive heard doug mclean admit as much... ultimately the buck stops with the gm. whether it truly is his fault or truly is his credit... hes the guy who will be fired or kept hired based on a results bottom line

I guess... I always wonder how so many gms/coaches go from winning the award one year for best... and within 2 years get fired. I wonder why you get a situation like Edmonton this past year... where the vegas odds makers {yeah those guys that control billions of dollars of real money based on this stuff} make oilers the "on paper" favorites to win... and then... I wonder how the gm that put that paper tiger together ends up getting the blame when the PLAYERS stink the bed.

I wonder that

I remember in school... a saying some clever person came up with once upon a time. the history books are written by the winners. its amazing how so many history books... paint the winning side as the good guys and the losing side ends up the scum of the earth.

so Chiarelli lost the war here in boston… and with gretzky/lowe/coffey and friends now in tight with bob Nichols and all under the fan boy glow of Darryl katz… he might be right on the verge of losing in Edmonton

frankly I think hes done a crappy job in Edmonton. im not sure how much is under the meddling influence of that 30 headed beast of power above him around the owner? guys like Hendricks... ference… should have been brought in/not sent packing. probably you want ones that can still play... but this type of leadership is what you want on the bottom of the team when you are trying to change the culture

bostons culture stunk when thornton/Boynton/raycroft had the room. dave scatchard a warrior was brought in and run out in a month after he called these guys out on their loser mentality.

boston under Chiarelli targeted winners like ward, ference.thornton. campbell, Kelly,and obviously recchi to NOT be the stars of the new team.. but to do a complete culture white washing.

he has done NONE of that in Edmonton. that would be where id point the finger at what a leaderless mess he has on his hands now. Putting the c on McDavid... kid is talented... but hes no leader. even chara wasn't considered much of a leader in his late 20s when we put the C on him. Chara had a lot of help becoming the guy he is today. who is helping McDavid?

oilers overspent on dmen who were marginal... guys like sekera/Russell were lightning rods for critism in their old homes... under achievers... couldn't keep the coaches confidence.

why does Chiarelli feel the need to overpay these guys on long contracts when they clearly were never the answer anywhere they ever played and weren't likely to change at this point in their careers

I don't blame him a lot for reinhart/Larson... at least they are kids with high pedigree that might develop. but where are the ference/ward types that bring value? every year theres vetern ufa looking for that one last year at kick of the cat. these guys can be had for a 1 year contract at reasonable money.... and they can teach the kids how to play.

you need some teachers/leaders on a young team

the one guy that has won something... lucic… he notortiously only plays well 50% of the time. in his very best season ever he only played well 50% of the time. YOU CANT HAVE A LEADER THAT IS SUCKING 50% OF THE TIME. I get that Edmonton wanted some toughness... but lucic is a luxurious complentary player for a team that is right there ready to contend for the cup. hes the secret doomsday weapon you unleash for commando style raids on the opposition when brute force can change the flow of the battle

hes not someone that you say... kid... do what lucic does... follow his example

so... whatever... I say Chiarelli did great here and got vilified after he left for things that the facts don't back up. fans are entitled to that I suppose... and I know why neely/Sweeney would throw gas onto that fire too.

ive pretty much said all I can on this... thanks to everyone that gave me a lively debate today. obviously I think many of you are very unfair. I doubt anything I said registered with some of you

hopefully some others have seen it might not be as black and white as the popular narrative would have them believe. if I gave anyone any food for thought it was worth the hours I invested into this today. I had fun.

there was some interesting posts here that I enjoyed reading.

sorry to those who feel im the biggest egomaniac to ever ruin their day here. I suppose I must have said something quite mean to some of you in the past to be bringing that up for the 1000th time in the past 2 decades. I feel I must owe a couple of you some mega powerful apologies for some perceived insult cause you really hound dog the hell out of me now.

sorry... sorry

im going to resist temptation to keep going here. I could probably argue this for the next 3 months. but im not really saying anything new at this point. I don't feel I failed to express my pov. if I didn't get my side out by now, I never will

I will leave it on a positive for the future. I do think Sweeney/neely are doing a fine job. I do like a lot of what they did with the team they inherited. I think the prospect system has never been better or more filled with promise as it has been under the Sweeney watch. I was excited that he went after kovalchuk/Tavares this year. I do believe he will keep an open eye towards potential future improvements

its a good time to be a bruin fan
go bruins go

i'll never understand how anyone can read one of your posts start to finish. jesus.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

as for the 2012 team...please let's ditch the narrative that Thomas cost them another run or that the team changed after the Marchand suspension.

The biggest problem with that team was that they lost Nathan Horton and replaced him with Jordan f***ing Caron

2011 and 2013 he was THE key Bruins RW and a huge reason they went deep. 2012 he was on the shelf and they still went 7 with the Caps and lost on a goal that shouldn't have counted, but without Horton they were going nowhere. Horton's importance to those two runs to the finals is so criminally underrated here.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

either he gets credit for the good picks and blame for the bad or drafting overall does not enter into the evaluation of him as a GM.

if you're going to say "no, it was Gretzky" then you also have to say the years of bad drafts are not Chiarelli's fault at all, it was the scouts that failed.

one more step, if you say "well who hired the scouts?", then you are giving Chia credit for the Gretzky picks.

the problem is that it took him years to "fix" his scouting department. He only really had fruitful drafts in his first and last years here. that's pretty telling i'd say.

 

[Gordoff]

either he gets credit for the good picks and blame for the bad or drafting overall does not enter into the evaluation of him as a GM.

if you're going to say "no, it was Gretzky" then you also have to say the years of bad drafts are not Chiarelli's fault at all, it was the scouts that failed.

one more step, if you say "well who hired the scouts?", then you are giving Chia credit for the Gretzky picks.

Okay point taken. Bottom line for me is that after the 2011 Cup, Chiarelli lost his fastball. He grew fat and arrogant, a deadly flaw. Now Edmonton gets to learn, gets to see that if you ignore history you're bound to repeat it. If Chiarelli wins a cup there all is good but from the looks of it he has allowed his ego to get the Oilers into the same cap mess that he got the B's into. Good luck to him, hope he NEVER takes the reigns here again.

 

[Gordoff]

the problem is that it took him years to "fix" his scouting department. He only really had fruitful drafts in his first and last years here. that's pretty telling i'd say.

^^^THIS!^^^

 

[GloryDaze4877]

the problem is that it took him years to "fix" his scouting department. He only really had fruitful drafts in his first and last years here. that's pretty telling i'd say.

Party A: The B’s did not draft well under Chia.

Party B: Oh yeah, what about 2006 and 2014?

Party A: Well, in 2006 he wasn’t hired until May 26th, and wasn’t allowed to start with the B’s until July, so...

Party B: Oh yeah, what about 2014?

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

Not trying to defend the trade, but under "a bunch of plugs" is probably the best player of the entire bunch in Reilly Smith.

Whom we successfully turned into a bought out Jimmy Hayes

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

the problem is that it took him years to "fix" his scouting department. He only really had fruitful drafts in his first and last years here. that's pretty telling i'd say.

really it was a fairly constant improvement in his time here...still wasnt good enough, but not as barren as remembered.

07, 08 and 09 were complete busts, best player being Colborne and Caron

10 he gets Seguin (gimmes count), and Spooner. Gets a serviceable D in Trotman in the 7th where anything above career AHL'er is a win

11 gets Hamilton, Koko (clearly had the talent to be a player, everyone has their opinions as to why he didnt make it)

12 gets Subban (say what you want, he was a factor for Vegas), Grzelcyk

13 was a miss

14 hits the home run of Pastrnak, Heinen, Bjork, Donato

I view it as a rookie GM going through the process of learning how to build a scouting department, and giving each iteration a couple of years to succeed/fail.

Overall, it wasnt nearly good enough to sustain a Cup contender beyond a 2-4 year run

 

[Glove Malfunction]

love your input... so I will answer one last time here. the politics were irrelevant other than he stuck his head out in a way hockey players never do... he drew attention to himself. he became the story

and then...

then he never opened his mouth ever again... its like the bear the knocks over the beehive and then lets everyone else get stung by the very angry little critters he trampled on

I honestly don't care if a player has an opinion on world events... but if you are going to go 100% against acceptable norm... and you want to create a s storm... then you need to be the one that mans up and deals with the fallout

Thomas was all no comment... not talking... no comment... and the team got the brunt end of those very awkward and unpleasant questions.

meanwhile Thomas home life... suffered. by the time the season was done he told us all he was moving to Colorado to live as a recluse because his home life had gone to crap.

I never for one second judge anyone for their politics... but he fired a shot over everyones head saying he wanted the attention... and then he let his team suffer and his own play suffered because of the consequences

You really take a lot of liberties with the facts here. Somehow, desiring to spend time with his family away from the media means his "home life had gone to crap." He also literally NEVER said he wanted the attention, that's a completely falsified construct. You're approaching Haggerty levels with this Mike. I also think you're letting your opinion cloud what actually happened.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

Whom we successfully turned into a bought out Jimmy Hayes

Which doesn't change the fact that Reilly Smith was egregiously classified under "a bunch of plugs."

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Which doesn't change the fact that Reilly Smith was egregiously classified under "a bunch of plugs."

In fairness to the people classifying him under bunch of plugs...

He kind of played like a plug his last season in Boston. I’m not sure the reasons for the lackluster performance, but he was pretty bad in 14/15 despite OK numbers.

I would say it was a B’s thing, but then he did the same exact thing in FLA in 16/17.

I would not be adverse to putting some money down on the “under” for his point totals in 18/19.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

In fairness to the people classifying him under bunch of plugs...

He kind of played like a plug his last season in Boston. I’m not sure the reasons for the lackluster performance, but he was pretty bad in 14/15 despite OK numbers.

I would say it was a B’s thing, but then he did the same exact thing in FLA in 16/17.

I would not be adverse to putting some money down on the “under” for his point totals in 18/19.

its called a sophomore slump...plenty of players have one.

16/17 Florida was a dumpster fire of turmoil. They dumped Gallant 20 games in coming off a division crown. Huberdeau only played 31 games. Everyone saw their numbers drop, not just Smith. Yandle, Barkov, Jagr, all declined