sorry wall of text... the real study of chiarelli's last 5 years in boston

[Mainehockey33]

couple of quarrels.

1. Loui Eriksson was a good get. a 30 goal, 70 pt 2 way winger. You can't fault Chiarelli for not predicting Loui would get his brain scrambled by a brutal cheap elbow his 1st season here.

his only healthy season here, he went for 30-33-63. good for 2nd on the team in goals and points

2. Reilly Smith is hardly a "plug"

3. getting rid of Eberle was the right move. He is a soft, 1 dimensional, and was a brutal flop in the playoffs for them...going for zero goals and only 2 points in 13 games.

his biggest downfall here was drafting. He never had the next wave to keep it going so had to overpay the vets to hang on.

If he were in say Tampa, where he would be allowed to sell of assets, suck for a few years and reload it would've been better for him. But you cant do that here.

Like selling Boychuk, Hamilton, and Lucic for assets and then sucking for a couple years?

 

[KrejciMVP]

best bruins GM ever, really pains me that he couldn't finish the run with krejci and bergy. I know Sweeney is popular but I don't think he and Neely are taken very seriously outside of boston like chia was

 

[Rubber Biscuit]

best bruins GM ever, really pains me that he couldn't finish the run with krejci and bergy. I know Sweeney is popular but I don't think he and Neely are taken very seriously outside of boston like chia was

Shows how quick that can change. Now Chia is the laughing stock of GMs

 

[KrejciMVP]

Shows how quick that can change. Now Chia is the laughing stock of GMs

well a little more than a year ago he was 1 win away from another final. Im sure edmonton will rebound

 

[Mainehockey33]

well a little more than a year ago he was 1 win away from another final. Im sure edmonton will rebound

I’m so glad he wasn’t around to resign Lucic to that aweful contract. We’d still be in cap hell if he was still the GM.

 

[Baddkarma]

can this myth die already.

Seguin was traded for a 30 goal, 70pt 2 way wing with a 4.25 cap hit and a promising prospect who has since turned into a valuable 1st line wing.

Eriksson got a Bergeron/Savard level dirty hit concussion his 1st season here. you cant predict that and using hindsight on it is not fair.

Same with Reilly Smith getting scape goated and dumped to Florida

you can certainly argue the return should've been more, but lets stop with the "they got nothing in return" crap.

I would argue that Seguin was drafted as a 1C.

A player like Ericsson was nice, but an above avaerage winger as a center piece should never net you a 1C. Again, trading Seguin is not the real issue its the return as has been argued here for five years. No picks, not franchise prospects. It was a terrible trade at the time and go worse as the assets received fizzled out.

 

[GoBs]

They had Seguin signed for a good contract and traded him. Everyone thought he would be the second line center for years but a bad trade left them with committing to Krecji. I like Krecji been a good player but they gave him super star money at the time.

 

[EverettMike]

Well I'm convinced. I didn't before but now I think it's good Chiarelli drafted like shit, signed aging veterans to full market deals with term and NTCs which clogged our roster with under-performing players, and also that he made one of the worst trades in NHL history with our best young asset so he could try to win a cup in the next three years only to then not go all in the next two seasons when the team desperately needed another defenseman.

And the great part was how smug he was about it the whole time, condescendingly telling everyone how hard it is to make trades.

Great stuff.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

So you give credit to Chiarelli for trades (Recchi Horton etc) yet fault “upper management” for the Seguin trade.

You also place tons of blame at the feet of Tim Thomas. Him skipping the White House was the reason the team sunk? It’s risky signing a player to a 35+ contract and it ended up biting Chiarelli in his rear.

The Iginla overage forced him to make trades for cap space.

Sorry but Kelly was overpaid. He was serviceable, but I’d love to know what % of the cap his $3m was back then, and what the equivalent is today.

Because the Islanders paid Boychuk 6m per we are to assume that’s what it would’ve cost the Bruins if they’d resigned him that summer before he became a UFA? So I guess you feel Marchand would’ve also gotten only 6m on open market?

You use Taylor Hall being traded for “a 2nd pair dman” as a crutch for Seguins return, yet you fail to mention that CHIARELLI is the GM who traded Hall for that “2nd pair dman”!! And Seth Jones was a top-3 pick in the draft and was already a top pair dman at the time of the Johansen trade. I’d argue he had similar or more value at that time than McAvoy does now.

Chiarelli will always be looked upon kindly as GM of the Bruins. The team delivered a Cup. But in my honest opinion that team had more potential.

you are smart... you've been around... you seen a lot...

do you feel upper management interferes in every minor deal a team makes? I don't think I did give any credit to Chiarelli for getting Horton although I do for keeping him. I give him credit for the creative deal he made with iginla to wiggle the cap hit. that is the job of the capologist.

doug mclean is one ex gm that speaks a lot about how owners/upper management like to have a hand in things when it comes to the bigger ticket items. the new owner in Carolina has been brash enough to go on record about it. mr green in dallas… that owner that dealt with lecavalier… the Russian in jersey who was all over the kovalchuk signing there... the guy in minny opening up the vault to parise and suter

im sorry if im breaking some sort of news to you that senior management/owners get involved when franchise players are being moved... I thought everyone knew that

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Like selling Boychuk, Hamilton, and Lucic for assets and then sucking for a couple years?

Not to defend Chia, but he traded Boychuk.

Sweeney traded Hamilton and Lucic.

Also, I’m not sure I consider 96 pts in 14/15 and barely missing the playoffs and 93 pts in 15/16 and losing a tie-break to miss the playoffs on the last day of the season “sucking”?

Carry on.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

best bruins GM ever, really pains me that he couldn't finish the run with krejci and bergy. I know Sweeney is popular but I don't think he and Neely are taken very seriously outside of boston like chia was

Best Bruins GM ever?

You must be young?

 

[GloryDaze4877]

well a little more than a year ago he was 1 win away from another final. Im sure edmonton will rebound

They might, but he won’t be around to see it.

 

[KnightofBoston]

Stop perpetuating the Tim Thomas bad teammate false narrative. That **** was drummed up by fat Haggerty to get hits on his articles and profit from an increasingly polarizing political divide in the readership. The fact that the team slumped in the final weeks of the season has nothing to do with Thomas, Obama, or the white house.

I would agree with this, but his antics didn’t help.



Tim Thomas reminds me of my dad, who I know extremely well and intimately being my dad. A GREAT guy on the outside, but when you get down to it and they have a chance to show their true colors, they’re a little angry, a little selfish, and a little nuts. The way thomas handled himself and his exit (as AOF mentioned) also did not in any way help the team. I love Tim Thomas the goaltender, I’ll never forget what he did for us, I’ll never forget that he grew up in one of the worst parts of Michigan dirt poor and what he did to get to where he was.

To focus on chiarelli who is the main topic here it seems, his real downfall came from terrible drafting and trading Seguin for such poor return


{MOD}

If one asserts that he had to trade Seguin because Neely/Jacob was in his ear - and that’s sort of silly imo because he certainly seemed determined to do so behind the scenes. The only one that seemed upset was Sweeney if my ability to read body language is decent - but if you believe that he was told, he could have said no. No I just won the cup and returned this team to the finals one season removed. He compounded the problem from not getting an A++++ return for Seguin. Ok, I’ll trade Seguin, but I’m doing it for big assets when the time is right. If he felt what he got was big assets, then that makes it look even worse for him. I 100% blame him for how that trade worked out. I couldn’t care less what Jacobs or Neely thought. You stand your ground and say I’m the general manager and trading him now for this deal is bad asset management.

It also seemed like they thought Horton would re-sign if Seguin was traded, which obviously didn’t work out and then Horton had a back issue anyways. It was all very very bad circumstances compounded by a man who that he had it all figured out

When you draft like you do, and two of your best prospects are Alex Kohklachev and Jordan Caron, dougie Hamilton not withstanding and as we know now he’s only so good anyways, you do not trade a former 2nd overall who has all the tools to be a 90+ point two way center in the NHL and already scored 67 points for what he did

I definitely hold PC responsible for this team’s eventual downfall and not TT

Would have been interesting to see what Seguin would look like under Cassidy...or a top 3 pick from another team

 

[Mainehockey33]

Not to defend Chia, but he traded Boychuk.

Sweeney traded Hamilton and Lucic.

Also, I’m not sure I consider 96 pts in 14/15 and barely missing the playoffs and 93 pts in 15/16 and losing a tie-break to miss the playoffs on the last day of the season “sucking”?

Carry on.

That’s my point. The poster I quoted made it sound like Chiarelli wasn’t allowed to sell players for assets because Jacobs or someone wouldn’t allow it. Both Chiarelli and Sweeney sold good players for assets.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

They had Seguin signed for a good contract and traded him. Everyone thought he would be the second line center for years but a bad trade left them with committing to Krecji. I like Krecji been a good player but they gave him super star money at the time.

seguin wasn't traded because he had a good contract... he wasn't traded because he led the team in scoring... he wasn't traded because he had all the tools to be the teams top center for the next decade.

you are correct about all that stuff... and trust me everyone making the decision knew all about this too. none of this was unknown to the people making the decision

unfortunately they knew some stuff you didn't. they made their decision on stuff that a lot of us say 'that's just rumors' 'that doesn't matter' 'I hate when they say that stuff about him'

true

was just rumors to people like you and me... cause we don't know
and... I guess it did matter... no matter what people like you and me might say
and... its fair if you don't like to hear this... that's also why you will never understand the trade

you got to actually listen when they talk if you want to understand what they are doing

as far as what seguin has done in dallas… and whether it has turned him into a winner or not... I will let his fans sing his praise. I personally believe he doesn't get into as much crap that makes the 'rumors' as he used to. does that mean hes cleaned up... or dallas just doesn't care as much about hockey as we do and he can fly under the radar more?

no doubt about it... sweet talent. no doubt about it... I was underwhelmed by the trade...

but I wasn't there listening to the incoming offers. I wasn't the one finding a way to balance the cap.

its hard for me to tell anyone to 'like' the seguin trade... but to say a gm like Chiarelli {who was feuding with his team president and playing on a team where the younger Jacobs has been aggressively trying to get his stamp on the team} could ever trade away a franchise player without the say so from the boss... is naïve

he was in charge of negotiating the return... so blame him for that. but the genesis to move seguin was made with full discussion of higher powers

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

That’s my point. The poster I quoted made it sound like Chiarelli wasn’t allowed to sell players for assets because Jacobs or someone wouldn’t allow it. Both Chiarelli and Sweeney sold good players for assets.

not sure how you got that idea... hope my follow up posts clarify how teams deal with their franchise players vrs how a gm is tasked with the responsibility of managing the roster with players lower in the pecking order

 

[Mainehockey33]

If he were in say Tampa, where he would be allowed to sell of assets, suck for a few years and reload it would've been better for him. But you cant do that here.

not sure how you got that idea... hope my follow up posts clarify how teams deal with their franchise players vrs how a gm is tasked with the responsibility of managing the roster with players lower in the pecking order

It was the above poster I was quoting.

Both Sweeney and Chiarelli sold players for assets so I don’t think Jacobs was behind the scenes telling them they can’t sell players for assets. Unless it’s Bergeron or something.

Besides, who should Chiarelli have traded for assets? The guy fell in love with his players.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Stop perpetuating the Tim Thomas bad teammate false narrative. That **** was drummed up by fat Haggerty to get hits on his articles and profit from an increasingly polarizing political divide in the readership. The fact that the team slumped in the final weeks of the season has nothing to do with Thomas, Obama, or the white house.

ton of fans will never understand this. right now they are all screaming how offended they are about the label on dougie Hamilton being a bad teammate. these fans have no freaking clue about how it works and never will because everytime someone tries to clue them in they scream stop speaking... stop saying this... I wont listen

youd love what aaron ward said on his hit on the montreal afternoon show yesterday

the question was… anyone you thought was a bad teammate?

ward says... the bruin had tenure... was a vet... so the team had to put up with his garbage. normally uniforms are hung crest out. this nitwit always hung his with his name out... so the guys intentionally flipped it back just to piss him off. ward said it got so bad with this guy and his idiot super stitious behavior on and off the ice... they went to the other team one night {players ex team} and told those guys... you can kill him tonight... we aren't going to lift a finger to help him

yeah... it went that far

ward said... one guy like this in the locker room can just kill moral and sink the entire team.

yeah... a player actually felt that way... and said it in those words for the record

its by far not the only time I heard players say this. I listen. I hear it.

if you got over your little one world view about these things... stopped imposing your sensibilities on it... and listened to what the players were saying... see the results... you might be able to catch on too

in the meantime I will do what small part I can in pointing out the 'unrelated' corolation between unique earth shattering things like this and the teams fall from grace

and others can say that the teams 5th-or 6th best forward getting hurt was enough to cripple the club lol

 

[Gee Wally]

Leave political shit out.

Or this thread goes 'poof'.

 

[Mainehockey33]

ton of fans will never understand this. right now they are all screaming how offended they are about the label on dougie Hamilton being a bad teammate. these fans have no freaking clue about how it works and never will because everytime someone tries to clue them in they scream stop speaking... stop saying this... I wont listen

youd love what aaron ward said on his hit on the montreal afternoon show yesterday

the question was… anyone you thought was a bad teammate?

ward says... the bruin had tenure... was a vet... so the team had to put up with his garbage. normally uniforms are hung crest out. this nitwit always hung his with his name out... so the guys intentionally flipped it back just to piss him off. ward said it got so bad with this guy and his idiot super stitious behavior on and off the ice... they went to the other team one night {players ex team} and told those guys... you can kill him tonight... we aren't going to lift a finger to help him

yeah... it went that far

ward said... one guy like this in the locker room can just kill moral and sink the entire team.

yeah... a player actually felt that way... and said it in those words for the record

its by far not the only time I heard players say this. I listen. I hear it.

if you got over your little one world view about these things... stopped imposing your sensibilities on it... and listened to what the players were saying... see the results... you might be able to catch on too

in the meantime I will do what small part I can in pointing out the 'unrelated' corolation between unique earth shattering things like this and the teams fall from grace

and others can say that the teams 5th-or 6th best forward getting hurt was enough to cripple the club lol

That doesn’t sound like a goaltender, but you never know. TT was definitely eccentric.

 

[McGarnagle]

Yeah, I'm just going to consider that to be bullshit.

Our top line right winger and best goal scorer missed most of the second half of the season and the entire playoffs. McQuaid got hurt and missed the playoffs so f***ing Greg Zanon had to play every night. Chiarelli tried to replace Kaberle with Joe Corvo. We ended up losing a close series in the first round on a goal that should've been called off for interference anyway.

But it's all Tim Thomas's fault because you buy what Fat Haggs is selling you and Aaron "Mr. Credibility" Ward had a radio interview where he said the whole season was ruined by someone who hung his jersey in the wrong direction?

 

[EverettMike]

There is no more chicken shit commentary, from fans or media, than "well they know more than we do so we can't actually criticize that terrible move."

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

couple of quarrels.

1. Loui Eriksson was a good get. a 30 goal, 70 pt 2 way winger. You can't fault Chiarelli for not predicting Loui would get his brain scrambled by a brutal cheap elbow his 1st season here.

his only healthy season here, he went for 30-33-63. good for 2nd on the team in goals and points

2. Reilly Smith is hardly a "plug"

3. getting rid of Eberle was the right move. He is a soft, 1 dimensional, and was a brutal flop in the playoffs for them...going for zero goals and only 2 points in 13 games.

his biggest downfall here was drafting. He never had the next wave to keep it going so had to overpay the vets to hang on.

If he were in say Tampa, where he would be allowed to sell of assets, suck for a few years and reload it would've been better for him. But you cant do that here.

I will take a second to disagree... I do think he would have been allowed to rebuild. on the fly of course... this team always rebuilds on the fly. its done that for the 40 years ive been a fan. that comes straight from the top with Jacobs. he loves his playoff revenue

but Chiarelli was clearly doing a very sensible job rebuilding.

in this 4 year span from cup winning team to getting fired.... he made the following changes to the team

out/ in
Horton/eriksson
rechhi/smith
seguin/pastrnak
peverly/soderberg
caron/spooner
boychuk/Hamilton
ference/krug
hnidy/mcquaid
bartowski/miller
Thomas/Svedberg

that's 10 roster spots out of 23 that were changed... and I say the incoming guy was better/equal in every single example except goaltender

these are the real moves Chiarelli made in his attempt to keep the club competing for a cup

in this time period and the next couple seasons... fans screamed here... look as los angeles… look at Chicago... they don't have the same problem Chiarelli had. they win and they keep winning. they keep their team winning more cups. how come we got bad after 5 years when they didn't

mmmhmm… that's what the fans here were screaming when I brought this argument up 2-3 years ago

anyhow... the real moves Chiarelli really made infused this team with a lot of very good young players. he missed the playoffs only once. he missed by a single point. I have no doubt he was beginning a massive retooling of the team. his drafting the last couple seasons was spectacular. remember that drafting relies on scouting so I never give the gm that much credit/blame other than... its the gm that decides will he trade the picks? will he deal the prospects away?

Chiarelli was putting all our prospects into the lineup... telling claude to play them. he was holding onto the picks and letting his very talented scouting staff restock the team

some fans say... that the picking was worst before... well... remember we were winning cups... we had to trade some of our picks for guys like Horton/jagr in order to win those cups and go to those finals.

as the team neared the end of its window... he was clearly rebuilding

who knows if he would have made the reinhart trade if he was here? a lot of fans might not know but reinhart played his amateur hockey for the oilers owned team located in Edmonton. the local oiler establishment really loved this kid. when Chiarelli was hired... guys like kevin lowe and craig McTavish were best buddies with Darryl gaetz.

do we know whether or not Chiarelli was told... get reinhart at any cost? we think we know that gaetz told his team...draft yakupov. the scouts here in Edmonton have let bob stauffer know they didn't want yakupov

if we listen... we see things aren't so black and white the way we wish they were. sometimes theres a lot of gray in the background

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

That doesn’t sound like a goaltender, but you never know. TT was definitely eccentric.

definitely wasn't Thomas... was a forward ward said

ward was here 2006-2009

wasn't Schaefer... ward singled Schaefer out as being a great teammate

candidates
-------------
glen murray

I don't see anyone else who the team had a problem with and simply got rid of. murray was very tight with thornton/Boynton/raycroft/samsonov group that the team cleared out. he was the only known member of this clique that got left behind.

murray supposedly got hurt when all his friends were throw to the trash heap... and finished his career collecting his paycheck at home. was he hurt? or did the team just tell him to please go away?

ward in no way said anything at all specifically about murray other than the player was a forward and had tenure with the team. the rest I am speculating on as to who might fit that description

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

There is no more chicken **** commentary, from fans or media, than "well they know more than we do so we can't actually criticize that terrible move."

I think most people in a democratic nation champion free speech and defend the right to criticise what you want. but wont you extend the same courtesy to those with more knowledge to speak up and set you straight?

I don't know the inner workings of say... the boy scouts of America... or say... ford auto plants... im still allowed my opinions on those entities. but if I go off on an emotional rant and someone that actually knows about these things tells me info I had no freaking idea about... whats my best course of action?

do I tell them to go fly a kite with their chicken crap ideas... or do I reflect upon my own ignorance and draw into question am I right on this side of the fence ive chosen for myself?