sorry wall of text... the real study of chiarelli's last 5 years in boston

[BruinsFanSince94]

the fact that you would think someone would intentionally take a bad offer... without any input at all from the people around him... tells me what I need to know about your view of the world

good luck with that

either you are right and this guy is a sick sadist out to abuse his power by crippling his teams intentionally just to spit in the face of the fans and people who pay his checks...

or

maybe hes taking the best offer available after consulting some very well respected experts and insiders in his inner circle and dealing a 6 million dollar asset that belongs to his employer...

if your pov has any basis at all in reality... wow... it really is a screwy world we are living in... wow

Has anyone ever said this, or are you creating the ultimate strawman? What the f*** kind of BS logic caused you to come to this point? And you have the gall to question other people and their "views on the world"? That is f***ing laughable. Please get off the high horse, holy shit!

Your response doesn't make a lick of sense to what Dicky said, unless I'm missing something.

And honestly, you really think that Chiarelli couldn't have landed a better package for two superstar players? He couldn't have gotten something slightly better than the below:

for Seguin = LOUI ERIKSSON, REILLY SMITH, JOE MORROW, and MATT FRASER

for Hall = ADAM LARSSON #OneForOne

 

[Gonzothe7thDman]

Has anyone ever said this, or are you creating the ultimate strawman? What the **** kind of BS logic caused you to come to this point? And you have the gall to question other people and their "views on the world"? That is ****ing laughable. Please get off the high horse, holy ****!

Your response doesn't make a lick of sense to what Dicky said, unless I'm missing something.

And honestly, you really think that Chiarelli couldn't have landed a better package for two superstar players? He couldn't have gotten something slightly better than the below:

for Seguin = LOUI ERIKSSON, REILLY SMITH, JOE MORROW, and MATT FRASER

for Hall = ADAM LARSSON #OneForOne

Ryan Johansen brought back Seth Jones

Seguin should've brought back a cornerstone piece like that.

I won't buy there weren't better deals on the table. Especially when Chiarelli didnt even apparently talk to everybody to see what their offers were.

 

[EverettMike]

Ryan Johansen brought back Seth Jones

Seguin should've brought back a cornerstone piece like that.

I won't buy there weren't better deals on the table. Especially when Chiarelli didnt even apparently talk to everybody to see what their offers were.

The Stars didn't give up their best player, best prospect, or best draft pick.

 

[Gonzothe7thDman]

The Stars didn't give up their best player, best prospect, or best draft pick.

My favorite part about the "behind the scenes" clip, is even though it's pure Bruins propaganda meant to show the staff in the best light, Chiarelli is still there saying something about not knowing if whoever they were talking to still had their 1st Rd pick.

At least do your research on the team you are trading your potential franchise center to

 

[GloryDaze4877]

2015 opps chiarelli was fired despite this very good drafting record and keeping that championship team together... not getting suckered into long term contracts that needed to get bought out {other than seidenberg due to injuries} and actually keeping a core of the team together that to this day is still together. lots of the youngens chiarelli brought along are still very important players.

anyhow... thats my look at the last 5 years of chiarelli's run... his 2 trips to the cup finals... his 1 trip to the second round... and another 7 game loss in the tim Thomas year... and then his 1 and only miss of the playoffs.

so as I said at the beginning... my challenge now goes to the haters and the complainers. if you feel there was specific mistakes made then go ahead and defend your argument

most of us will give you the seguin trade... again I say that the behind the b's footage shows it was an organizational decision. and some will definitely argue keeping Seidenberg over boychuk didn't work out {but I will argue injuries can happen to anyone... and boychuk today is signed to a horrific contract}

some are going to argue chris Kelly was overpaid... but I will come up with an example 10 deep of third line centers that never had more than 20 goals/40 points who were paid 3 mill on long term deals. sorry, but his contract was reasonable and is what it cost to keep him.

ive laid out the facts. and I am interested to see if anyone can find facts that I missed to defend their take

Very good drafting record? Pia pointed out the details and they were not pretty. Chia had one good year in 2014 and that was it.

The other hilarious part about this is that you give credit to Chia for the "very good drafting record", but then say it was an organizational decision to let Seguin go. You can't have it both ways. Behind the B also made it appear as if Sweeney was calling the shots in 2014 on the draft floor, telling Chia to relax and that they wouldn't have to trade up to get their guy (Pasta). Take the good with the bad.

Your assertion that Chia was fired, "despite keeping the championship team together" was also erroneous. One could say that he went too far with "keeping the band together", which led to him keeping too many players and then adding Iginla to the core on an ill-advised bonus-laden contract that came due the following season, and subsequently led to the Boychuk trade, which torpedoed that season.

If you look at the Chicago model, their team held up better and was more successful by identifying a smaller core and being willing to move players like Buff, Ladd, and other parts...BEFORE they got big money deals, and replacing them with similar, less expensive players.

 

[EverettMike]

My favorite part about the "behind the scenes" clip, is even though it's pure Bruins propaganda meant to show the staff in the best light, Chiarelli is still their saying something about not knowing if whoever they were talking to still had their 1st Rd pick

And as my friend Bradley has always pointed out in regards to the "half of Kane" comment:

Kane had 6 points and Seguin had 4 (while foolishly still being played on the 3rd line while the corpse of Jaromir Jagr took top line minutes).

Meanwhile Brad Marchand had 0. Zero points in that series.

And yet in their piece of shit propoganda they put it entirely on Seguin whose amazing pass in OT should have led to the game winning goal and potentially a series win, only he had to pass it Kaspars Daugavins because the GM left his team without any depth.

But again, Seguin's fault and he needed to be traded within 7 days, as though that package from Dallas wasn't going to still be there a month later.

 

[Pia8988]

Very good drafting record? Pia pointed out the details and they were not pretty. Chia had one good year in 2014 and that was it.

The other hilarious part about this is that you give credit to Chia for the "very good drafting record", but then say it was an organizational decision to let Seguin go. You can't have it both ways. Behind the B also made it appear as if Sweeney was calling the shots in 2014 on the draft floor, telling Chia to relax and that they wouldn't have to trade up to get their guy (Pasta). Take the good with the bad.

Your assertion that Chia was fired, "despite keeping the championship team together" was also erroneous. One could say that he went too far with "keeping the band together", which led to him keeping too many players and then adding Iginla to the core on an ill-advised bonus-laden contract that came due the following season, and subsequently led to the Boychuk trade, which torpedoed that season.

If you look at the Chicago model, their team held up better and was more successful by identifying a smaller core and being willing to move players like Buff, Ladd, and other parts...BEFORE they got big money deals, and replacing them with similar, less expensive players.

He ignored that. Doesn’t fit his holier than thou message. Chierelli’s drafting was atrocious before 2014.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Has anyone ever said this, or are you creating the ultimate strawman? What the **** kind of BS logic caused you to come to this point? And you have the gall to question other people and their "views on the world"? That is ****ing laughable. Please get off the high horse, holy ****!

Your response doesn't make a lick of sense to what Dicky said, unless I'm missing something.

And honestly, you really think that Chiarelli couldn't have landed a better package for two superstar players? He couldn't have gotten something slightly better than the below:

for Seguin = LOUI ERIKSSON, REILLY SMITH, JOE MORROW, and MATT FRASER

for Hall = ADAM LARSSON #OneForOne

somehow 100s of trades are made every year... somehow 1000s have been made in my lifetime

if I objectively value winners and losers of those trades... a significant number appear 1 sided in retrospect.

if I remember my opinion on the day some of these trades and some other trades were made... I probably was for or against some that worked out and some that didn't work out

its common place when a trade is made... that both sides think theres some aspect of the deal that makes sense from their way of thinking. if it didn't make sense at the time... usuall they wont make the trade

does 20-20 Monday morning quarterbacking always prove out the original thinking?

seguin was a very popular bruin here on the board the day of his trade... the overwhelming sentiment was the deal was bad. and yes a lot of people here get to ride a high horse on this one because they were against the trade from day 1

ive seen other trades made where the fans were very one sided and now all of them pretend they were in the know all along. that lucic trade wasn't popular but now.... those fans all act like they were against lucic all along

my perspective

 

[EverettMike]

The Lucic trade was absolutely popular! You can have whatever opinions you want, but I'm calling bull**** on that lie.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

The 2008-2009 Bruins I think was the best regular season team Chia put together. Losing to Carolina was a huge dissapointment after sweeping MTL. That team could have gone all the way

I STILL f***ing hate Scott Walker.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Ryan Johansen brought back Seth Jones

Seguin should've brought back a cornerstone piece like that.

I won't buy there weren't better deals on the table. Especially when Chiarelli didnt even apparently talk to everybody to see what their offers were.

Seriously. It should have been Jamie Benn. If Dallas wasn't budging? To quote the great Jay-Z, "Onto the next one".

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Very good drafting record? Pia pointed out the details and they were not pretty. Chia had one good year in 2014 and that was it.

The other hilarious part about this is that you give credit to Chia for the "very good drafting record", but then say it was an organizational decision to let Seguin go. You can't have it both ways. Behind the B also made it appear as if Sweeney was calling the shots in 2014 on the draft floor, telling Chia to relax and that they wouldn't have to trade up to get their guy (Pasta). Take the good with the bad.

Your assertion that Chia was fired, "despite keeping the championship team together" was also erroneous. One could say that he went too far with "keeping the band together", which led to him keeping too many players and then adding Iginla to the core on an ill-advised bonus-laden contract that came due the following season, and subsequently led to the Boychuk trade, which torpedoed that season.

If you look at the Chicago model, their team held up better and was more successful by identifying a smaller core and being willing to move players like Buff, Ladd, and other parts...BEFORE they got big money deals, and replacing them with similar, less expensive players.

kind of think ive been very consistent... gms don't make the picks... but they do manage the assets. the overwhelming agenda here from chia bashers is his draft record sucks

I pointed out the huge number of 3rd/4th line assets he was picking up on a regular basis while still contending for the cup. his bashers say he only wanted overpaid 3rd/4th liners on ntc…

I see some very selective arguments on the other side... trying to ignore a lot of facts and trying to put words in my mouth

I have never ever said a gm is responsible for the picks... ive always said a gm builds a scouting staff... hires a player development team... puts a farm system together...or hires people to do that

nothing in chiarellis behavior led me to think he wasn't telling his people to find elc type guys that could fill holes. and ive already shown the 10 kids that were given regular jobs by him with that cup caliber team In the 4 years after we won the cup. this wasn't a guy that was status quo. he was actually bringing in an average of 2-3 kids per year that were becoming important parts of the rebuild

then he missed the playoffs by 1 point... the highest point total ever to miss the playoffs... ever...

and he was fired in what was an obvious power play by neely to get 'his man' on the seat.

ok... neely/Sweeney are doing an ok job... I wont turn this into a neely bash

but lets have some more fair and accurate rememberance of Chiarelli please

 

[KrejciMVP]

kind of think ive been very consistent... gms don't make the picks... but they do manage the assets. the overwhelming agenda here from chia bashers is his draft record sucks

I pointed out the huge number of 3rd/4th line assets he was picking up on a regular basis while still contending for the cup. his bashers say he only wanted overpaid 3rd/4th liners on ntc…

I see some very selective arguments on the other side... trying to ignore a lot of facts and trying to put words in my mouth

I have never ever said a gm is responsible for the picks... ive always said a gm builds a scouting staff... hires a player development team... puts a farm system together...or hires people to do that

nothing in chiarellis behavior led me to think he wasn't telling his people to find elc type guys that could fill holes. and ive already shown the 10 kids that were given regular jobs by him with that cup caliber team In the 4 years after we won the cup. this wasn't a guy that was status quo. he was actually bringing in an average of 2-3 kids per year that were becoming important parts of the rebuild

then he missed the playoffs by 1 point... the highest point total ever to miss the playoffs... ever...

and he was fired in what was an obvious power play by neely to get 'his man' on the seat.

ok... neely/Sweeney are doing an ok job... I wont turn this into a neely bash

but lets have some more fair and accurate rememberance of Chiarelli please

most GM's wouldn't be fired with his resume. 2 Cup Finals and Presidents trophy before that one miss. It was a power change bc the relationship soured in the Bruins headoffice. Chia followed by Claude were ones to go. I still have a bad taste how Claude was let go.

The change hasn't hurt the franchise very much though. Sweeney has been above avg and looks to be trending upward.

 

[Pia8988]

kind of think ive been very consistent... gms don't make the picks... but they do manage the assets. the overwhelming agenda here from chia bashers is his draft record sucks

I pointed out the huge number of 3rd/4th line assets he was picking up on a regular basis while still contending for the cup. his bashers say he only wanted overpaid 3rd/4th liners on ntc…

I see some very selective arguments on the other side... trying to ignore a lot of facts and trying to put words in my mouth

I have never ever said a gm is responsible for the picks... ive always said a gm builds a scouting staff... hires a player development team... puts a farm system together...or hires people to do that

nothing in chiarellis behavior led me to think he wasn't telling his people to find elc type guys that could fill holes. and ive already shown the 10 kids that were given regular jobs by him with that cup caliber team In the 4 years after we won the cup. this wasn't a guy that was status quo. he was actually bringing in an average of 2-3 kids per year that were becoming important parts of the rebuild

then he missed the playoffs by 1 point... the highest point total ever to miss the playoffs... ever...

and he was fired in what was an obvious power play by neely to get 'his man' on the seat.

ok... neely/Sweeney are doing an ok job... I wont turn this into a neely bash

but lets have some more fair and accurate rememberance of Chiarelli please

The GM is responsible for his scouting staff, thus responsible for a poor drafting record where in 7 years of picking he was only ever able to produce 2 top 6 forwards and 1 top 4 defender.

Happy Chiarelli got the cup. Was happy to see him go.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

He ignored that. Doesn’t fit his holier than thou message. Chierelli’s drafting was atrocious before 2014.

Doesn't it say something about the draft itself when the team does poorly for several years and then (2014) suddenly has a near perfect draft?

Did Chia suddenly learn how to draft or is the draft a real crapshoot?

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

The GM is responsible for his scouting staff, thus responsible for a poor drafting record where in 7 years of picking he was only ever able to produce 2 top 6 forwards and 1 top 4 defender.

Happy Chiarelli got the cup. Was happy to see him go.

ive heard doug mclean admit as much... ultimately the buck stops with the gm. whether it truly is his fault or truly is his credit... hes the guy who will be fired or kept hired based on a results bottom line

I guess... I always wonder how so many gms/coaches go from winning the award one year for best... and within 2 years get fired. I wonder why you get a situation like Edmonton this past year... where the vegas odds makers {yeah those guys that control billions of dollars of real money based on this stuff} make oilers the "on paper" favorites to win... and then... I wonder how the gm that put that paper tiger together ends up getting the blame when the PLAYERS stink the bed.

I wonder that

I remember in school... a saying some clever person came up with once upon a time. the history books are written by the winners. its amazing how so many history books... paint the winning side as the good guys and the losing side ends up the scum of the earth.

so Chiarelli lost the war here in boston… and with gretzky/lowe/coffey and friends now in tight with bob Nichols and all under the fan boy glow of Darryl katz… he might be right on the verge of losing in Edmonton

frankly I think hes done a crappy job in Edmonton. im not sure how much is under the meddling influence of that 30 headed beast of power above him around the owner? guys like Hendricks... ference… should have been brought in/not sent packing. probably you want ones that can still play... but this type of leadership is what you want on the bottom of the team when you are trying to change the culture

bostons culture stunk when thornton/Boynton/raycroft had the room. dave scatchard a warrior was brought in and run out in a month after he called these guys out on their loser mentality.

boston under Chiarelli targeted winners like ward, ference.thornton. campbell, Kelly,and obviously recchi to NOT be the stars of the new team.. but to do a complete culture white washing.

he has done NONE of that in Edmonton. that would be where id point the finger at what a leaderless mess he has on his hands now. Putting the c on McDavid... kid is talented... but hes no leader. even chara wasn't considered much of a leader in his late 20s when we put the C on him. Chara had a lot of help becoming the guy he is today. who is helping McDavid?

oilers overspent on dmen who were marginal... guys like sekera/Russell were lightning rods for critism in their old homes... under achievers... couldn't keep the coaches confidence.

why does Chiarelli feel the need to overpay these guys on long contracts when they clearly were never the answer anywhere they ever played and weren't likely to change at this point in their careers

I don't blame him a lot for reinhart/Larson... at least they are kids with high pedigree that might develop. but where are the ference/ward types that bring value? every year theres vetern ufa looking for that one last year at kick of the cat. these guys can be had for a 1 year contract at reasonable money.... and they can teach the kids how to play.

you need some teachers/leaders on a young team

the one guy that has won something... lucic… he notortiously only plays well 50% of the time. in his very best season ever he only played well 50% of the time. YOU CANT HAVE A LEADER THAT IS SUCKING 50% OF THE TIME. I get that Edmonton wanted some toughness... but lucic is a luxurious complentary player for a team that is right there ready to contend for the cup. hes the secret doomsday weapon you unleash for commando style raids on the opposition when brute force can change the flow of the battle

hes not someone that you say... kid... do what lucic does... follow his example

so... whatever... I say Chiarelli did great here and got vilified after he left for things that the facts don't back up. fans are entitled to that I suppose... and I know why neely/Sweeney would throw gas onto that fire too.

ive pretty much said all I can on this... thanks to everyone that gave me a lively debate today. obviously I think many of you are very unfair. I doubt anything I said registered with some of you

hopefully some others have seen it might not be as black and white as the popular narrative would have them believe. if I gave anyone any food for thought it was worth the hours I invested into this today. I had fun.

there was some interesting posts here that I enjoyed reading.

sorry to those who feel im the biggest egomaniac to ever ruin their day here. I suppose I must have said something quite mean to some of you in the past to be bringing that up for the 1000th time in the past 2 decades. I feel I must owe a couple of you some mega powerful apologies for some perceived insult cause you really hound dog the hell out of me now.

sorry... sorry

im going to resist temptation to keep going here. I could probably argue this for the next 3 months. but im not really saying anything new at this point. I don't feel I failed to express my pov. if I didn't get my side out by now, I never will

I will leave it on a positive for the future. I do think Sweeney/neely are doing a fine job. I do like a lot of what they did with the team they inherited. I think the prospect system has never been better or more filled with promise as it has been under the Sweeney watch. I was excited that he went after kovalchuk/Tavares this year. I do believe he will keep an open eye towards potential future improvements

its a good time to be a bruin fan
go bruins go

 

[DKH]

whats your pick?

Mike e OConnell got 3 players for an underperforming Joe Thornton including Primeau who’s brother was very good with Detroit, Stuart (i forget his first name but he was a top 3 overall pick with SJ. It’s not OConnell fault his playboy model girl friend didn’t want to go to Boston)

And Marco Sturm the best player in the history of Germany - a big place with I think more people then Canada.

Actually quite a haul

He drafted Bergeron, Krejci and signed Tim Thomas

 

[Gonzothe7thDman]

Mike e OConnell got 3 players for an underperforming Joe Thornton including Primeau who’s brother was very good with Detroit, Stuart (i forget his first name but he was a top 3 overall pick with SJ. It’s not OConnell fault his playboy model girl friend didn’t want to go to Boston)

And Marco Sturm the best player in the history of Germany - a big place with I think more people then Canada.

Actually quite a haul

He drafted Bergeron, Krejci and signed Tim Thomas

The lines too blurred for me to figure out what's shtick and whats real.


I don't even think you know the difference anymore.

 

[Grimey]

Thank you. The thing that cost them that season was Nathan Horton's concussion (and the subsequent failure to replace him). I'm not sure of the exact dates but I'm pretty sure he suffered the concussion against Philly within a day or two of the White House visit.

I think they tried replacing him with Rolston at the deadline IIRC. Also when did Peverley get that ankle injury? Earlier on or during that slump? I think he was having a better season than Horton that year in terms of point production but obviously losing both of them hurt (I think Caron filled in for Pevs too).

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

The lines too blurred for me to figure out what's shtick and whats real.


I don't even think you know the difference anymore.

He is the master of subtle sarcasm.

 

[Gonzothe7thDman]

He is the master of subtle sarcasm.

He reminds me of Heath Ledger playing The Joker. He's just getting lost in his character and forgetting whats real and whats fake.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

He reminds me of Heath Ledger playing The Joker. He's just getting lost in his character and forgetting whats real and whats fake.

It can’t have elements of both?

 

[GloryDaze4877]

The Lucic trade was absolutely popular! You can have whatever opinions you want, but I'm calling bull**** on that lie.

I loved the Lucic trade.

Still do.

 

[DKH]

The lines too blurred for me to figure out what's shtick and whats real.


I don't even think you know the difference anymore.

My family came to visit me over the 4th (well they said it was) and they agreed the schtick has become so prevalent that normal has now become schtick

Oh and I remembered as soon as I took the dog for a walk - or the dog took me where she wanted to go - Brad Stuart

 

[Grimey]

Ryan Johansen brought back Seth Jones

Seguin should've brought back a cornerstone piece like that.

I won't buy there weren't better deals on the table. Especially when Chiarelli didnt even apparently talk to everybody to see what their offers were.

The return on that Seguin/Peverley deal wasn't nothing, but it was like ordering the first thing on the menu without bothering to see what else the restaurant has to offer.