rumman
Registered User
- Sep 10, 2008
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yup, too bad he made it infinitely worse...............Didn't he change roughly half the starting D from the 2018 opener to 2019? Aren't half our top 4 UFAs who aren't expected back?
yup, too bad he made it infinitely worse...............Didn't he change roughly half the starting D from the 2018 opener to 2019? Aren't half our top 4 UFAs who aren't expected back?
I take Muzzin over Gards and Ceci over Z personally. Hainsey was a much better defensive D than Barrie and we missed him this playoff.yup, too bad he made it infinitely worse...............
No, the stats are from a tiny sample, and the difference is one player playing against the worst defensive team in the league, and the other playing against the best defensive team in the league and a goaltender on an insane run. Those 3 games under wildly different conditions don't erase the much more significant and equal sample where Marner is clearly better than Aho. Playoff stats have never been very good for comparing players.
It doesn't contradict my claim at all. You knew exactly what I meant, so you intentionally provided an example that didn't make sense with a sample size of 1.
There is nothing else that suggests the playoffs starts now. There is one official statement. The one official statement says that the cup qualifiers were the playoffs. That's all that matters, no matter how much you complain about the NHL's official position.
when you consider what it costs to get Ceci over Zee, I'd keep Zee. Hainsey and Gards could have been retained for reasonable dollars and term. Acquiring Barrie was a tire fire; Muzzin trade was good short term, but lets wait and see how that 1st pick and Grundstrom turn out before we say that was a win. Dubas gets a F for attempting to fix the D with these players supplimented with AHL level help.I take Muzzin over Gards and Ceci over Z personally. Hainsey was a much better defensive D than Barrie and we missed him this playoff.
So do you like Muzzin more than Gards? What about Ceci v. Z and Hainsey v. Barrie?when you consider what it costs to get Ceci over Zee, I'd keep Zee. Hainsey and Gards could have been retained for reasonable dollars and term. Acquiring Barrie was a tire fire; Muzzin trade was good short term, but lets wait and see how that 1st pick and Grundstrom turn out before we say that was a win. Dubas gets a F for attempting to fix the D with these players supplimented with AHL level help.
considering Gards and Hainsey would only cost dollars I'd stay with them.So do you like Muzzin more than Gards? What about Ceci v. z and Hainsey v. Barrie?
I personally take our 3 this year, even if I was a Hainsey fan.
Not sure id want a bad Z for another 4 years. Holl also had a great year
Gotcha, so you'd take the 2018 D with Gards, Z and Hainsey over Muzzin, Ceci, Barrie.considering Gards and Hainsey would only cost dollars I'd stay with them.
Rather hve Zee and the pick than Ceci.
Like I said, I'll wait and see before saying the Muzzin trade was a win or loss.
Obviously since the Leafs didn't even make the playoffs all these moves were the wrong moves.
Dubas gets a F for his attempt to fix the D....................
considering Gards and Hainsey would only cost dollars I'd stay with them.
Rather hve Zee and the pick than Ceci.
Like I said, I'll wait and see before saying the Muzzin trade was a win or loss.
Obviously since the Leafs didn't even make the playoffs all these moves were the wrong moves.
Dubas gets a F for his attempt to fix the D....................
look it up, I liked/like Hainsey, he's cheap for what he brings.Gotcha, so you'd take the 2018 D with Gards, Z and Hainsey over Muzzin, Ceci, Barrie.
It's an interesting take, I wonder what your posts about that group was back then
You couldn’t predict it though my concerns were using a quality asset for a 1 year gap who was reported to want 8 mil. Colorado gets a 2C at 4.5.I don't agree with this at all. I love the Muzzin trade, he's exactly what we needed and if he doesn't get hurt, maybe we're still alive today. Barrie was a disaster but not sure anyone could have predicted that would have went as badly as it did.
They were 25th, and GAA is not defense. It is defense and goaltending.
CA? Last.
FA? Last.
SA? 2nd last.
xGA? Last.
SCA? 3rd last.
HDCA? Last.
That's how.
You make me laugh. Goals against don't count???
Also you can't even get your stats correct. ( see above)
Were they bad defensively ; yes. Were they the worst in the league? No.
Why do you need to exaggerate and make false claims just to prove your point?
They're also more expensive and for longer terms on a team under cap pressure.look it up, I liked/like Hainsey, he's cheap for what he brings.
Zee was overpaid, but plenty of that found on the Leafs.
Gards had his warts, but wasn't the defensive antichrist he was made out to be.
Like I've stated 3 times in this conversation, none of said players cost you anything but dollars.......no assets, no picks. That is my point...............................
Once again, a 1 game sample. Also, outplaying the other guy doesn't always mean winning the game, and you'd know that if you actually read instead of looking for a gotcha. Columbus got absolutely destroyed in that game. Tampa should have scored over 7 goals in that time. Korpisalo was the better goaltender. He did his job better than the other guy, and WAY better than what should be expected.Last night's game was a perfect example of what I meant when I said blaming Andersen for losing isn't intelligent. Korpisalo played amazing but in the end, he let in one more goal then the other guy so by your logic, he failed because his job is to outplay the other goalie and that's just nutso.
I criticize Dubas when it's deserved, and I have been a big supporter of Andersen until this year, when he deserves the criticism he's getting.I think that you can't bring yourself to criticize Dubas even one little bit and therefore you take the stand that Andersen is the scapegoat here and everything else is fine
Both of those statements are factually true.1) Our skaters outplayed theirs
2) Andersen was outplayed by their goalie
Our offense did do their job. They created chances and controlled the play. Sometimes you can't beat a hot goaltender no matter what you do, especially on horrible ice. Thought that might have occurred to you after watching the Tampa game.Their goalie played well, no doubt about it. But maybe if our zillion dollar offence does their job better than they did, their goalie doesn't look as good.
Not sure why we're even talking about Aho in the first place, and you're just going to ignore and twist anything I say like usual, but:Please explain how Marner is clearly better than Aho.
Which is the problem with ignoring massive samples to look at 3 games against wildly different opponent quality, where one plays against the worst defensive team and a struggling goalie, shooting unsustainably well, and the other plays against the best defensive team and an insanely hot goalie, shooting unsustainably bad.Aho's performance in the playoffs has been elite whereas Marner was mostly invisible this spring.
I understand your useless example perfectly well.I'll give you the benefit of the doubt though and admit it's possible that you really don't understand
The only one dismissing something valid here is you. The NHL decides. The NHL says it's the playoffs.you just dismiss everything that you don't like as invalid.
They were called both, because they were both.Also buddy they were called the Cup qualifiers. Not the Stanley Cup playoffs.
Except for this year.if you make the playoffs you’re not in the draft lottery.
Yes, they did.I guess you must think Montreal made the playoffs
The level of "accomplishment" is irrelevant. That's something you can decide on your own. What you can't decide on your own is whether something is the playoffs or not. The NHL has decided that it's the playoffs.What an accomplishment.
In terms of measuring specifically defense? Yes.Expected goals are better than actual goals.
Muzzin's a good player and is exactly the type of D man the Leafs needed, however he's getting long in the tooth and might not age well? I think time will tell whether that trade was a win or loss, because he wasn't the difference in getting beyond the first round. Having said that him getting hurt was a serious problem when your D is Swiss cheese thin.I don't agree with this at all. I love the Muzzin trade, he's exactly what we needed and if he doesn't get hurt, maybe we're still alive today. Barrie was a disaster but not sure anyone could have predicted that would have went as badly as it did.
Dubas decided to throw away picks to get rid of cap issues, there's always more than one way to skin a cat. I know Lou wouldn't have went that route...............They're also more expensive and for longer terms on a team under cap pressure.
I have definitely noticed those goalposts shifting from it being an "infinitely worse" D-core to the assets used were too high
Yup, Dubas decided to use picks to create space and it didn't work out.Dubas decided to throw away picks to get rid of cap issues, there's always more than one way to skin a cat. I know Lou wouldn't have went that route...............
It's important. Comparing players based on tiny samples against wildly different opponent quality is not representative of those players.Evidently, we don't want our players scoring goals/points in the playoffs. It's not important.
ya saying "I know" was a mistake after all, I'm not a mind reader. I get a sense the Lou wouldn't of dealt with the problem the way Dubas did.Yup, Dubas decided to use picks to create space and it didn't work out.
Curious though, how do you know Lou wouldn't have? He was literally the first GM to trade a pick for cap space under the cap.he introduced the concept. It's actually the only capable for the Marleau trade
And still, I gotta say I'm confused at why a poster who says the D needed to improve would want to be locked in to a top 4 of
Mo - Hainsey
Gards - Z
For the next year (at least) when they clearly weren't good enough
Hopefully Gards and Hainsey could have been resigned to reasonable term/dollars. deal with the problem down the road. In hindsight wouldn't of been the worse idea.And still, I gotta say I'm confused at why a poster who says the D needed to improve would want to be locked in to a top 4 of
We don’t know what Lou would have done.ya saying "I know" was a mistake after all, I'm not a mind reader. I get a sense the Lou wouldn't of dealt with the problem the way Dubas did.
I believe most GM's wouldn't have put themselves into the position where they were forced to.Yup, Dubas decided to use picks to create space and it didn't work out.
Curious though, how do you know Lou wouldn't have? He was literally the first GM to trade a pick for cap space under the cap.he introduced the concept. It's actually the only capable for the Marleau trade
And still, I gotta say I'm confused at why a poster who says the D needed to improve would want to be locked in to a top 4 of
Mo - Hainsey
Gards - Z
For the next year (at least) when they clearly weren't good enough
Once again, a 1 game sample. Also, outplaying the other guy doesn't always mean winning the game, and you'd know that if you actually read instead of looking for a gotcha. Columbus got absolutely destroyed in that game. Tampa should have scored over 7 goals in that time. Korpisalo was the better goaltender. He did his job better than the other guy, and WAY better than what should be expected.
Of course it doesn't and I've never said it does. Your already questionable reading comprehension "skills" seem to be going downhill fast, not sure what else there is to say here.
I criticize Dubas when it's deserved, and I have been a big supporter of Andersen until this year, when he deserves the criticism he's getting.
Which from what I've seen, according to you is never. But here's your chance, what are things that Dubas has done that deserve to be criticized.
Both of those statements are factually true.
To say our skaters outperformed theirs with their pathetic total of 3 ES goals is suspect to say the least. I know you desperately want to blame Andersen, I just don't understand why that is.
Our offense did do their job. They created chances and controlled the play. Sometimes you can't beat a hot goaltender no matter what you do, especially on horrible ice. Thought that might have occurred to you after watching the Tampa game.
Not sure why we're even talking about Aho in the first place, and you're just going to ignore and twist anything I say like usual, but:
You were talking about Aho long before I said a word about him. I know you love cherry picking and posting numbers but you're incredibly naive (or willfully ignorant) if you think that stats are all you need for player evaluation.
Which is the problem with ignoring massive samples to look at 3 games against wildly different opponent quality, where one plays against the worst defensive team and a struggling goalie, shooting unsustainably well, and the other plays against the best defensive team and an insanely hot goalie, shooting unsustainably bad.
The fact that Aho has outplayed Marner in the playoffs is a problem only for you because it refutes your claim that Marner is easily better than Aho.
I understand your useless example perfectly well.
The example is far from useless. You either don't understand it or you're pretending not to.
The only one dismissing something valid here is you. The NHL decides. The NHL says it's the playoffs.
The opposite is true - I've acknowledged evidence for both sides, you on the other keep ignoring what you don't want to admit exists.
Muzzin's a good player and is exactly the type of D man the Leafs needed, however he's getting long in the tooth and might not age well? I think time will tell whether that trade was a win or loss, because he wasn't the difference in getting beyond the first round. Having said that him getting hurt was a serious problem when your D is Swiss cheese thin.
If next season is scraped, Muzz will be that much older. Acquiring vet D men is a double edged sword imo. Sadly in many instances they're pylons waiting to happen................
You couldn’t predict it though my concerns were using a quality asset for a 1 year gap who was reported to want 8 mil. Colorado gets a 2C at 4.5.
We were trending to have the same issue again.
Expected goals are better than actual goals. LOL.
I loved the squirming & dancing around the playoff goal & point production comparison between Aho & Marner. Evidently, we don't want our players scoring goals/points in the playoffs. It's not important. LOL.
I might agree with you if the Leafs were still in the hunt for the cup, but sadly they aren't.True, we can never be sure of how they will age. My philosophy is to judge trades at the time they were made as it doesn't seem fair to criticize with the benefit of hindsight. And at the time, the Muzzin trade was fantastic and I give Dubas top marks for that one.