So... Let's talk Konecny

[baudib1]

Voracek has been a strong possession player ever since he stepped foot into the league. In his worst scoring year he was +3.5%, which is pretty good for "wildly inconsistent."

 

[FlyersMania2]

Voracek has been a strong possession player ever since he stepped foot into the league. In his worst scoring year he was +3.5%, which is pretty good for "wildly inconsistent."

Voracek is undeniably a great player but he is very frustrating sometimes. Like when he just circles around or passes too many times, etc, etc.

 

[Curufinwe]

Voracek has been just as important to the team as Giroux since the lockout, and it clearly kills you that he's set a career high in points after you spent all summer saying the team should dump him. Of course you also said Giroux had been defeated by Father Time, and now you're acting like you had faith in him all along.

The odds of Konecny cracking 80 points multiple times in his career are low. Not many players score 30+ PPP and 50+ ESP in the same season.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Voracek is maddening. But he's still one of the few guys on the team with high-end speed, skill, and horsepower and who can create offense.
He also would have much better stats right now if he stayed on the first line with Giroux and Couturier, but he took one for the team moving down with Patrick and Lindblom.

 

[deadhead]

Voracek is maddening. But he's still one of the few guys on the team with high-end speed, skill, and horsepower and who can create offense.
He also would have much better stats right now if he stayed on the first line with Giroux and Couturier, but he took one for the team moving down with Patrick and Lindblom.

The Patrick - Lindblom - Voracek line is putting up similar numbers to the first line.
It was being exiled with Filppula that brought Voracek down for a couple weeks.

 

[Adtar02]

Voracek is maddening. But he's still one of the few guys on the team with high-end speed, skill, and horsepower and who can create offense.
He also would have much better stats right now if he stayed on the first line with Giroux and Couturier, but he took one for the team moving down with Patrick and Lindblom.

I think long run that may be good for Jake. Only problem I see is he likes the puck on his stick. I could see two lines that can score at a high level 5v5 with the top two lines this year. would be great

 

[Adtar02]

The Patrick - Lindblom - Voracek line is putting up similar numbers to the first line.
It was being exiled with Filppula that brought Voracek down for a couple weeks.

Which it why it makes no sense that Filp plays more mins than Patrick

 

[deadhead]

Voracek has been a strong possession player ever since he stepped foot into the league. In his worst scoring year he was +3.5%, which is pretty good for "wildly inconsistent."

Unfortunately, that's all he's been.
He's become a turnover machine, he's never been better than mediocre defensively, and he's soft off the puck.
Givaways have increased from 30, 42, 50, 56 and 64 the last five seasons.
He's a good player, but has the raw talent to be an elite player.

 

[deadhead]

Which it why it makes no sense that Filp plays more mins than Patrick

Yes it does.
Filppula will be gone next year, Patrick will be a Flyer for the next decade.
So do you shelter the rookie coming off two serious surgeries the last two summers or run him into the ground?

I'd rather lose in the 1st rd this year sheltering Patrick and have him 100% the next ten years.
Because with Couts, TK, Patrick and Lindblom, my first two lines are set for a long time.
And that means I can work in guys like Frost, Allison, et al when they're ready.

 

[Curufinwe]

Unfortunately, that's all he's been.

He's the 15th highest scorer in the league over a six year period.

NHL.com - Stats

But only 66th in the deadly sin of giveaways. Joe Thornton and John Tavares are the worst forwards in that stat. Hopefully Konecny doesn't end up like them!

NHL.com - Stats

 

[Striiker]

Yeah, I don't have any expectations for MacDonald, other than hopefully a trade with salary retained this summer.

Konecny has great offensive talent, but so does Voracek.
Face it, can you name a more frustrating Flyer player than Voracek?
I want to see Konecny take the next step, learn how to play under control, cut back on the mistakes, and improve his ice awareness (like eliminating the blind passes for turnovers).

Too many people equate scoring with great playing, there's a reason why certain players post 50-60 points a year and -25 +/- and xGF% < 50.
The top players not only score, they win games when they're not scoring by doing little things to help their team.
Which is why even though Giroux and Voracek have about the same amount of points, no one in their right mind thinks Voracek is as valuable as Giroux.

No no no no no.

We weren’t discussing players compared to the expectations we have for them. This was simply about picking who plays by looking at a certain players impact vs another players impact. Like, MacDonald vs Ghost or Konecny vs Lehtera.

You can’t defend the way Hakstol uses them by pointing out only the good things about the bad ones and only the bad things about the good ones. I don’t care how low the expectations are for the vet players, I care about the quality of play they bring to the team.

——

If I’m betting on a horse race, and one of the horses has 3 legs, I’m not going to pick it and then defend that choice by saying that it actually didn’t do that bad because I expected it to be even slower. I lost. I picked wrong. The result is all that matters.

If we completely change the conversation to simply “how it did vs expectations”, then fine, that can be discussed.

The next time I go up to bet, it’s completely on me to remember the result from last time and learn from my mistake. If I bet on the same horse and lose again, it’s 100% my fault for being a f***ing idiot.

My expectations for the results of the race are based on individuals performance vs the performance of the alternatives. My expectation for the individual is their performance vs their own potential, which is a completely different topic.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Putting any weight into turnover stats.

 

[deadhead]

Tavares also gets his share of takeaways, though I think he's a tad overrated and will get overpaid this summer.
Same with Thornton with GV/TK.
Though I'd take prime age Thornton over Tavares and Voracek without a moment's hesitation.

Don't know how much Thornton has left in the tank, but I'd take him on a reasonable one year deal and reduce his TOI from 18 to 13-15 a game and hope for a rebound.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

The Neck with the most goals by a 21 and under player since Gagne in his 21 year old season! Love this dude.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

The Patrick - Lindblom - Voracek line is putting up similar numbers to the first line.
It was being exiled with Filppula that brought Voracek down for a couple weeks.

If I'm not mistaken, Voracek has been playing with Patrick since the All-Star break ended.
26 points (10 goals, 16 assists) in 30 games.
Before the AS break, he had 56 points (9 goals, 47 assists) in 49 games.

So his production has taken a hit, which is what I meant, especially in assists (where he was leading the league). But, to be fair, his goals have gone up.

 

[baudib1]

Thornton is going to be a first ballot Hall of Famer; I'd take prime Thornton over anyone who ever played the game except for ~40-50 guys.

Voracek isn't a perfect player, but if he were any better, he'd be Jaromir Jagr. He's still an elite player.

 

[Freddy The Fog]

For some reason his speed and tenacity reminds me of Flockhart (Ron....not Clasita )

 

[onlylordsvsmorebp]

Voracek is undeniably a great player but he is very frustrating sometimes. Like when he just circles around or passes too many times, etc, etc.

love voracek...but it drives me nuts when he skates circles until he turns it over or corkscrews himself into the freaking ice.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yes it does.
Filppula will be gone next year, Patrick will be a Flyer for the next decade.
So do you shelter the rookie coming off two serious surgeries the last two summers or run him into the ground?

I'd rather lose in the 1st rd this year sheltering Patrick and have him 100% the next ten years.
Because with Couts, TK, Patrick and Lindblom, my first two lines are set for a long time.
And that means I can work in guys like Frost, Allison, et al when they're ready.

Playing inferior players over better players is good coaching?

Patrick is fine. He's clearly over his injury.

 

[Striiker]

Maybe there’s a glitch and he can’t see your posts. I’ll help, just in case.

Is playing inferior players over better players good coaching?

 

[FlyersMania2]

Maybe there’s a glitch and he can’t see your posts. I’ll help, just in case.

Is playing inferior players over better players good coaching?

Nah he doesn't answer direct questions - if he does reply to this one he will do some round about response including stats to support whatever point he decides to focus on.

 

[Striiker]

Nah he doesn't answer direct questions - if he does reply to this one he will do some round about response including stats to support whatever point he decides to focus on.

Yeah, that's his playbook.

Say something dishonest and ridiculous > get corrected and/or challenged on it > disappear and never answer the question or back up his words > repeat

 

[TheKingPin]

What a draft that was. Provorov and TK in the first round is an absolute win. To think both players are still years off of their peak.

 

[deadhead]

\
Patrick is fine. He's clearly over his injury.

Patrick is not "fine." His skating is much improved, but the inability to work out for two summers clearly impacted his strength and stamina.
And tired players are more likely to get injured.

What exactly are we playing for this year? To scrape through a 1st rd to get blown out in a 2nd round?
Not worth risking the health of a potential franchise player by driving him into the ice.

 

[Lindberg]

Deadhead give it a rest man. You refuse to admit you're wrong ever. Konecny, Giroux, Voracek, and etc.