So Babcock needs to go... (Part 2)

[Martin Skoula]

List the coaches that have won a single playoff round in the last decade.

List the coaches that have won a Stanley Cup.

List the coaches that have seen franchise point records.

List the coaches that improved their teams point totals from previous years by 20, 30, 40 points.

List the coaches who can handle the spot light of Toronto and not get flushed like a Carlyle

List the coaches . . .
List the coaches . . .
List the coaches . . .
List the coaches . . .
List the coaches . . .
List the coaches . . .

So your saving grace is that Babcock won a single cup over a decade ago with an all-star team? Or that he finished 3rd in the division and set a "record"?

We need to keep Babcock because.. he isn't Carlyle?

 

[IPS]

No it’s not actually, you’re just discounting because it challenges a narrative. And his minutes per game are fine, especially on a team that has depth. Total non issue this year, but have at it, sure you’ll find takers here lol.

Well don't hold back on it, explain to us why shifts/GP matter and what story they tell?

 

[DarkKnight]

Well don't hold back on it, explain to us why shifts/GP matter and what story they tell?

Wow, if you actually need that spelled out for you. Man.

 

[stickty111]

Babcock just doesn't know how to coach a team with skill.
Halting the offense shows that.

 

[Duffman955]

I love how its never the player's fault.

Barrie plays like dog shit at both ends of the ring. "Its Babcock's fault, hes not using him right."

Have you seen Barrie in the offensive zone? Motherf***er cant handle the puck, constantly gives it away

 

[GoonieFace]

I’m pretty sure Jeffler says Babcock can’t coach teams will skill, so it must be true. Close all Babcock related threads

 

[Kiwi]

I love how its never the player's fault.

Barrie plays like dog **** at both ends of the ring. "Its Babcock's fault, hes not using him right."

Have you seen Barrie in the offensive zone? Mother****er cant handle the puck, constantly gives it away

Barrie has been a productive player for a long time, i'd have thought it's incumbent on the coach to do everything possible to get the best results out of every single player on the roster

That's coaching 101 and if Barrie is struggling badly continuing to do exactly the same thing over and over again but expecting different results doesn't make a lot of sense to me

That's not defending the player, that's just a realistic look at how you try solving this issue

 

[DarkKnight]

Barrie has been a productive player for a long time, i'd have thought it's incumbent on the coach to do everything possible to get the best results out of every single player on the roster

That's coaching 101 and if Barrie is struggling badly continuing to do exactly the same thing over and over again but expecting different results doesn't make a lot of sense to me

That's not defending the player, that's just a realistic look at how you try solving this issue

Are we watching him play? He loses almost every board battle, he’s a muffin out front, that has zero to do with coaching.

It’s just kind of pathetic that a veteran D man like Barrie gets a free pass for his abysmal play and general lack of passion. Now I get why Avs fans didn’t seem terribly upset they lost him and were relieved about resigning him.

Do the basic stuff and then perhaps we can digest the blanket coaching crutch. Right now he should be embarrassed at his play.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I’m pretty sure Jeffler says Babcock can’t coach teams will skill, so it must be true. Close all Babcock related threads

Well he’s going on a decade with no results

 

[Kiwi]

Are we watching him play? He loses almost every board battle, he’s a muffin out front, that has zero to do with coaching.

It’s just kind of pathetic that a veteran D man like Barrie gets a free pass for his abysmal play and general lack of passion. Now I get why Avs fans didn’t seem terribly upset they lost him and were relieved about resigning him.

Do the basic stuff and then perhaps we can digest the blanket coaching crutch. Right now he should be embarrassed at his play.

Where did I write he should get a free pass? I'm no genius but if Barrie is on the roster he's an anchor if he continues to play like this so perhaps it's a plan to try changing things up with him to see if you can get a different result

Our PP sucks, why not give him some time on the top unit and see if some cheap points help his confidence? Perhaps giving him some offensive usage with a different partner in game?

Just saying he sucks and doing Jack **** isn't a solution, it's the opposite of a solution

 

[IPS]

It’s just kind of pathetic that a veteran D man like Barrie gets a free pass for his abysmal play and general lack of passion. Now I get why Avs fans didn’t seem terribly upset they lost him and were relieved about resigning him.
.

LMAO, you don't have a clue pal. This is all from the Avs board:

It's amusing and not surprising at all that Barrie is already becoming somewhat of a whipping boy in Toronto because they always need one guy to focus on but I still think the points will come. Probably not the 50+ points because of the lack of top PP time but I also don't think he'll end up in the 30's like he's currently on pace for. I haven't watched too many of their games closely so I don't know how much he's at fault for but the underlying numbers seem to suggest he has been one of the more unlucky defensemen in the league so far.

I feel for Tyson.

I thought we were hard on ole Tboobs. The leafs forum is shredding him.

Yeah well, they also think Kerfoot is better than Barrie, so they shouldn't be taken all that seriously. Hopefully he'll find a better place for him next summer.

They probably wish they had Kadri at 2C with Tavares out. It shows how underrated of a coach Bednar is, he deployed Barrie in a way to get the most out of him. Babcock isn't doing that and it shows.

There's no way Leafs fans will truly appreciate Tyson Barrie if he's stuck saddling the 2nd unit PP all season long and is asked to do things by Mike Babcock that probably aren't his strong suit.

We saw time and time again here that you just gotta let Barrie go, and he'll play his best hockey. You take the good with the bad. But you can't, as a coach, minimize almost entirely the good he's going to do for you by changing/limiting him because the bad is still going to be there.

Barrie’s a one man up ice breakout. Jared Bednar implemented a system completely built around that. Follow Barrie up ice as a unit with players constantly gliding in and out of the nearest passing lane to support him once he needs to move it.

This is what I don't think a lot of people realize. A lot of the Avs system and plays were designed around Barrie's breakout, and especially the way he worked with the top line as a five man unit. This is why he always seemed to put up points in games where he wasn't very noticeable.

The same is going on with Makar now. He's more dynamic and talented than Barrie, but he hasn't played all that well in a lot of games this year, and has still managed to rack up the points.

The Avs off the rush style has always lent itself to pmd's that have a good breakout game and like to join the rush. Makar and Barrie are both very talented defenseman, but both player's point totals benefit from this.

Unfortunately for Barrie, he isn't in the same situation in Toronto, playing second fiddle to Reilly both at even strength and on the PP. So he's going to have to find other ways to generate scoring chances by himself in Babcock's system.

I was and still am happy about the Barrie trade, but it’s unfortunate he’s not being appreciated in TO. Tyson is a damn good hockey player, you just have to know how to use his talents. And honestly, that’s on Babcock.

LOL Babcock.

“Look I know that your strengths have been well documented throughout your career and I know how to utilize your strengths. But I’m not gonna play you to your strengths because I’m the coach.”

lol. Just send him back to us, on the cheap of course.

There's a video on TSN where he talks about not being as aggressive roaming around in the offensive zone because of the structure as well as trailing the rush rather than leading it himself.

They acquired Tyson Barrie and are asking him not to play like Tyson Barrie. He should be able to take some kind of legal action against Babcock for potentially costing him a ton of money.

I don't think having a tight leash is a good excuse. Barrie should just play the way he plays, he won't be yanked from games. Babcock would just glower at him.

 

[DarkKnight]

LMAO, you don't have a clue pal. This is all from the Avs board:

Wow, insecure much?

I’ve read a ton of Avs fans glad they didn’t have to worry about resigning him. Why play that selective game? Oh ya, that’s your game forgot.

Go back to Dangle, that’s about your speed...

 

[DarkKnight]

Where did I write he should get a free pass? I'm no genius but if Barrie is on the roster he's an anchor if he continues to play like this so perhaps it's a plan to try changing things up with him to see if you can get a different result

Our PP sucks, why not give him some time on the top unit and see if some cheap points help his confidence? Perhaps giving him some offensive usage with a different partner in game?

Just saying he sucks and doing Jack **** isn't a solution, it's the opposite of a solution

Not you, but some are focusing on Babs to justify his play. It’s a copout.

I might try him on the top PP, but honestly I have Muzzin first for a change, he gets the shots through.

 

[ToneDog]

Nylander + Barrie for Makar and Jost (Sakic might be too smart though)

 

[IPS]

Wow, insecure much?

I’ve read a ton of Avs fans glad they didn’t have to worry about resigning him.

Go back to Dangle, that’s about your speed...

Nah it's funny because you've been on this train of irrationally trashing Barrie every chance you get.

Couldn't possibly be that his skillset just isn't being utilized by the coach. A large group of Avs fans are actually in agreement with this, and you'd undoubtedly get a more unbiased view from them then you would from undying Babcock supporters like yourself.

 

[DarkKnight]

Nah it's funny because you've been on this train of irrationally trashing Barrie every chance you get.

Couldn't possibly be that his skillset just isn't being utilized by the coach. A large group of Avs fans are actually in agreement with this, and you'd undoubtedly get a more unbiased view from them then you would from undying Babcock supporters like yourself.

He’s been terrible, any objective observer agrees...you go to Babs on everything, we already know your answer before something even comes up. It’s really predictable. Oh and so so tedious.

I’ve said Babs is gone by Christmas if we don’t get it together, said that since the end of last season. I’m just not into the intellectually lazy routine you espouse, sorry. You’re on autopilot.

I don’t particularly care your view of my opinion, I assure yours has little bearing on what I see. Cheers.

 

[IPS]

Really though, it goes back to my point I made a few days back of why management went out and bothered acquiring a guy like Barrie knowing full well that Babcock wasn't going to cooperate with it.

Seriously, this is a defensemen with over 500 games in the league. Did Dubas/Shanny honest to god think Babcock was just going to take it in stride and utilize a high risk/high reward defenemen like Barrie to his capabilities? He wasn't, this is just what I feared when the trade was done. We burned our best trade chip to get this guy and not only are we not using him at what he's meant for, we're completely tanking his value with this nonsense usage. What a shitshow of asset management.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I’m still yet to see someone post a solid argument on why he’s a good coach for this team

 

[The Abusement Park]

Wow, insecure much?

I’ve read a ton of Avs fans glad they didn’t have to worry about resigning him. Why play that selective game? Oh ya, that’s your game forgot.

Go back to Dangle, that’s about your speed...

There was a small loud minority that wanted Barrie gone. There were a lot of us that didn’t want him to go and while Makar has put up points we’re still really missing what Barrie brought to our team.

Unfortunately it looks like Babcock won’t let him use his strengths which is tilting the ice in his direction by rushing the puck up the ice and causing odd man rush after odd man rush.

 

[DarkKnight]

There was a small loud minority that wanted Barrie gone. There were a lot of us that didn’t want him to go and while Makar has put up points we’re still really missing what Barrie brought to our team.

Unfortunately it looks like Babcock won’t let him use his strengths which is tilting the ice in his direction by rushing the puck up the ice and causing odd man rush after odd man rush.

It’s not even the offence that I’ve focused on, it’s the board play and inability to clear the net that worries me.

Appreciate opinion was divided.

I’ll use Reilly, or Gardiner for that matter, they seem/ed able to rush within our system. Also I’ve seem Dermott do it, so where’s Barrie? There is no hate on from me, I’m just watching him perhaps more intently because he’s new and I’m surprised at what I’m seeing.

It’s early, he can turn it around for sure. I’ll be the first to acknowledge.

 

[The Abusement Park]

It’s not even the offence that I’ve focused on, it’s the board play and inability to clear the net that worries me.

Appreciate opinion was divided.

I’ll use Reilly, or Gardiner for that matter, they seem/ed able to rush within our system. Also I’ve seem Dermott do it, so where’s Barrie? There is no hate on from me, I’m just watching him perhaps more intently because he’s new and I’m surprised at what I’m seeing.

It’s early, he can turn it around for sure. I’ll be the first to acknowledge.

Defensively Barrie is pretty inconsistent and I don’t think you will fine many say otherwise. But from the few games I’ve seen it looks like Babcock wants him to pass it out of the zone more than rushing it. I mean I always thought Barrie was a weird fit for a Babcock coached team and it really does seem like he and Dubas are on different wavelengths.

 

[rimshot]

It’s not even the offence that I’ve focused on, it’s the board play and inability to clear the net that worries me.

Appreciate opinion was divided.

I’ll use Reilly, or Gardiner for that matter, they seem/ed able to rush within our system. Also I’ve seem Dermott do it, so where’s Barrie? There is no hate on from me, I’m just watching him perhaps more intently because he’s new and I’m surprised at what I’m seeing.

It’s early, he can turn it around for sure. I’ll be the first to acknowledge.

Can't really argue your points. Pretty much. I am sure he tried to fire Babs and got blocked.

You are sure that he tried to fire Babcock? That is much more than an opinion. I will have to see your proof for this presumed fact. By the way, a quote from Jeffler or one of your imaginary friends does not count.

 

[stickty111]

Really though, it goes back to my point I made a few days back of why management went out and bothered acquiring a guy like Barrie knowing full well that Babcock wasn't going to cooperate with it.

Seriously, this is a defensemen with over 500 games in the league. Did Dubas/Shanny honest to god think Babcock was just going to take it in stride and utilize a high risk/high reward defenemen like Barrie to his capabilities? He wasn't, this is just what I feared when the trade was done. We burned our best trade chip to get this guy and not only are we not using him at what he's meant for, we're completely tanking his value with this nonsense usage. What a ****show of asset management.

I’m still yet to see someone post a solid argument on why he’s a good coach for this team

It's wierd Babcock saying this, when he is the one who won't adapt.

 

[IPS]

There was a small loud minority that wanted Barrie gone. There were a lot of us that didn’t want him to go and while Makar has put up points we’re still really missing what Barrie brought to our team.

Unfortunately it looks like Babcock won’t let him use his strengths which is tilting the ice in his direction by rushing the puck up the ice and causing odd man rush after odd man rush.

Thanks for dropping some input. I knew full well we were getting a very dynamic player from Colorado

Hope you guys are enjoying Kadri. There was also a very vocal minority around here who trashed him non-stop. Funny enough, that minority happens to be largely the same one that's clamoring so hard about us needing grit/sandpaper.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Thanks for dropping some input. I knew full well we were getting a very dynamic player from Colorado

Hope you guys are enjoying Kadri. There was also a very vocal minority around here who trashed him non-stop. Funny enough, that minority happens to be largely the same one that's clamoring so hard about us needing grit/sandpaper.

I think it’s pretty obvious that Kadri needs more than 3C minutes to be effective and that obviously wasn’t going to change in TO.

And hopefully Barrie can get something going particularly at ES because that was always his strength prior to the last 2 seasons where he truly learned how to get shots through traffic on the PP.