So Babcock needs to go... (Part 2)

[Martin Skoula]

System?

You're using that in singular.

I hope you realize that for a typical game, players are expected to use about 5-10.

Can you describe any of them that you think help us? What is Babcock bringing to the table that other coaches wouldn't be able to?

 

[Bomber0104]

If you read the conversation, he said he taught his 12 year olds to support the puck better than the Leafs do under Babcock. Obviously I don't believe him, but I don't see how it's a good thing for Babcock if it was the case.

What he's saying is that 12-year olds actually want to and are capable (commiserate to their level) of playing defence, moreso than multi-million dollar athletes on the Leafs.

I don't know why you think I was saying the Leafs should be playing like 12 year olds rather than professionals, but you are mistaken. I also don't think it should take a miracle for the Leafs to play basic defense by whatever standards you want to think that guy was talking about, do you?

It won't take a miracle.

It'll just take replacing players with ones that are actually interested in playing without the puck.

The coach really has nothing to do with that, irrespective of what your overtly simplistic belief system dictates.

 

[Bomber0104]

Can you describe any of them that you think help us? What is Babcock bringing to the table that other coaches wouldn't be able to?

I'm afraid I might confuse the hell out of you.

You seem to think the Leafs run one system after all..

Where would I even begin?

 

[Bomber0104]

I'm posting this again so it doesn't get unnoticed in the bottom of the page.

Just look at the difference between Babcock and Keefe.

Sheldon Keefe in his post game. He said the special teams haven't been good all season, but were getting all sorts of luck. He then said "we as coaches need to do a better job preparing our team".

On an answer to his next question. He said we have dealt with significant injuries, but that shouldn't be an excuse. We have more then enough depth here, and a lot of good players. We as coaches need to be able to adjust. Special teams have been the difference in a lot of games, and that is large part a coaching issue.

He pretty much blamed himself for the team's play. Keefe is willing to take ownership for how the team performs. Babcock just gives out excuses.

And just like the last post...

Nobody cares.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I'm afraid I might confuse the hell out of you.

You seem to think the Leafs run one system after all..

Where would I even begin?

Wow you sure are good at avoiding making a point.

 

[Bomber0104]

Wow you sure are good at avoiding making a point.

You don't even understand what a "system" is.

Figure out basic hockey terminology and then you can start pressing me for answers.

Sound good?

 

[Martin Skoula]

You don't even understand what a "system" is.

Figure out basic hockey terminology and then you can start pressing me for answers.

Sound good?

Why is it so hard to list one thing Babcock does well?

 

[Bomber0104]

Why is it so hard to list one thing Babcock does well?

There's nothing hard about it.

I just think that an HFboards user who doesn't even understand basic hockey terminology like you would get confused.

I realize you don't know what a system is but do you know what the term "cycle" is?

Let me know.

 

[Martin Skoula]

There's nothing hard about it.

I just think that an HFboards user who doesn't even understand basic hockey terminology like you would get confused.

I realize you don't know what a system is but do you know what the term "cycle" is?

Let me know.

You can just say what he does well for the rest of the people reading even if dumb dumbs like me can't grasp it.

That would of course require you to actually have a point to make. Maybe the 5th post will be the charm eh?

 

[ToMaLe]

Why is it so hard to list one thing Babcock does well?

Well he did coach the Leafs to last overall in the league and as a result we got Matthews lol.

 

[Bomber0104]

You can just say what he does well for the rest of the people reading even if dumb dumbs like me can't grasp it.

That would of course require you to actually have a point to make. Maybe the 5th post will be the charm eh?

I'd say counteracting the roster's natural inclination towards cheating on offence, and shirking defensive duties in all situations with a more balanced approach.

 

[HomerJLeafs]

winning 3 is not changed the fact that babcock is not the right coach for this team
he has speedy skilled creative players
and he wants them to play like if they all are komorovs hymans grinders
he forces his style on the players rather than addapting his style to the players he has
imho a good coach would look at Berrie and would go "ok i have somehing new and something different lets do something new with it especially because the special teams were bad last season"
but babcock is "nah he has to forget everything he was good at in Colorado and HE has to addapt"
pretty f***ing stupid imho

 

[Martin Skoula]

I'd say counteracting the roster's natural inclination towards cheating on offence, and shirking defensive duties in all situations with a more balanced approach.

So just to be clear, you think the forwards are told not to fly the zone, and what we see on the ice is the compromise Babcock has managed to reach with them?

 

[Bomber0104]

So just to be clear, you think the forwards are told not to fly the zone, and what we see on the ice is the compromise Babcock has managed to reach with them?

No not a compromise.

Like I said, the forwards have a propensity towards cheating and bailing out on the defensive side of the puck.

Babcock and his staff, like any other, would be advising them not to do that and engage in order to keep possession and quality chances against to a a minimum.

But since these players are incapable and unwilling to do that , here we are.

 

[Polaris1010]

winning 3 is not changed the fact that babcock is not the right coach for this team
he has speedy skilled creative players
and he wants them to play like if they all are komorovs hymans grinders
he forces his style on the players rather than addapting his style to the players he has
imho a good coach would look at Berrie and would go "ok i have somehing new and something different lets do something new with it especially because the special teams were bad last season"
but babcock is "nah he has to forget everything he was good at in Colorado and HE has to addapt"
pretty ****ing stupid imho

At this level of football, in the NFL, all that matters is winning. At the college or high school, maybe the coach has different duties, like team work, player development.

But at the pro level, all that matters is winning.

This current Leafs team, player development is for losers. It is all about winning right now.

No team in the history of the NHL has run and gun their way to a championship. Do it Babcock's way or get out of town.

Dubas has to do it that way or he's out.

If a player wants to be more in a role of player development, get out of town or go overcook yourself in the minors.

 

[Martin Skoula]

No not a compromise.

Like I said, the forwards have a propensity towards cheating and bailing out on the defensive side of the puck.

Babcock and his staff, like any other, would be advising them not to do that and engage in order to keep possession and quality chances against to a a minimum.

But since these players are incapable and unwilling to do that , here we are.

So Babcock wants the forwards down low and helping out, but also wants them available in the neutral zone for the chip and chase breakout?

Do you think we'd just have 3 forwards floating at center ice with a non-Babcock coach? I genuinely can't imagine a realistic scenario where our defense has less forward support than what we're currently doing.

 

[Martin Skoula]

At this level of football, in the NFL, all that matters is winning. At the college or high school, maybe the coach has different duties, like team work, player development.

But at the pro level, all that matters is winning.

This current Leafs team, player development is for losers. It is all about winning right now.

No team in the history of the NHL has run and gun their way to a championship. Do it Babcock's way or get out of town.

Dubas has to do it that way or he's out.

If a player wants to be more in a role of player development, get out of town or go overcook yourself in the minors.

Where is the evidence that Babcock's way is the right way?

That's not to say that defense is the wrong way, I just don't see what Babcock has done for people to sing his praises as some sort of defensive gritty mastermind. He's no Trotz. Trotz doesn't need 2x Selke finalists, a top-5 all time D, and two additional #1 level D to make his team play defense right.

 

[dimi78]

Our guys have trouble with the simple stuff defensively. What kinda miracle do you want Babs to pull? The puck support in our own end is so brutal. I taught 12 year olds to support the puck better than these guys are doing. A lot of the criticism directed at Babcock belongs on the shoulders of the players, because I can assure you, Babs isn’t teaching them to play like that.

Our guys haven't experienced enough loosing too understand the commitment required in compete for contending status in the NHL. Things have come too fast and too easy for this group. The next step requires a level of hardship for this group to get through.

That's where this young group is at. The group doesn't have a coaching problem, doesn't have a lack of toughness problem, doesn't even have a back up goalie problem or a structure defensive problem.

They have an internal fortitude problem to compete each and every shift before the thought of scoring goals enters the mindset which is common for teams deep in high-end talent... Unfortantely the teacher isn't the coaching. The teacher is loosing. The question is will the team (players + coaches + management) be awarded the required time for the teaching to be understood by the players?

 

[ZEBROA]

At this level of football, in the NFL, all that matters is winning. At the college or high school, maybe the coach has different duties, like team work, player development.

But at the pro level, all that matters is winning.

This current Leafs team, player development is for losers. It is all about winning right now.

No team in the history of the NHL has run and gun their way to a championship. Do it Babcock's way or get out of town.

Dubas has to do it that way or he's out.

If a player wants to be more in a role of player development, get out of town or go overcook yourself in the minors.

They are in development now in Babcock dinosaur defensive school. Its outdated and the onlyo getting schooled is Babcock. He doesent learn anything from it thou.

 

[HomerJLeafs]

At this level of football, in the NFL, all that matters is winning. At the college or high school, maybe the coach has different duties, like team work, player development.

But at the pro level, all that matters is winning.

This current Leafs team, player development is for losers. It is all about winning right now.

No team in the history of the NHL has run and gun their way to a championship. Do it Babcock's way or get out of town.

Dubas has to do it that way or he's out.

If a player wants to be more in a role of player development, get out of town or go overcook yourself in the minors.

babcock won shit in the past decade
and he was painfully outcoached in both boston series
the most embarassing way. . remember when the boston players were laughin at us (especially babcock) because there was no adjustments during the series

 

[MyBudJT]

Can you tell us what specifically it is that you like about our system? What does Babcock do well other than get our guys to run interference and pretend that counts as defense?

Why are you putting the onus on me? I'm not saying anything positive or negative about our systems...

I find it very silly that people are spending so much effort critcizing our system(s) when they don't even know what our system is. And when I actually get a response on people trying to describe our systems, they mostly desccribe issues with our systems in the past, not present.

Truthfully, I haven't watched hockey intently enough yet this season to really get into the ins and outs of our system, but its clear to me that we aren't playing the same way we did last season. Our breakout passes in particular have really died down IMO. But because I haven't watched out for postional/systematic plays, I asked someone who was criticizing it to explain it for us. Instead, they didn't discuss the systems, they were attacking me as a poster... that in inself is all you need to realize that they don't know what they're talking about.

I think the issue with this team isn't really our systems... we are a very good 5v5 team, and have been for quite some time. I think once special teams start figuring their shit out, then we will be a very dominant team in this league.

 

[thewave]

Just fire the guy already. The team plays like hot garbage is borderline garbage entertainment wise. I am not going to continue watching this. I already have fallen asleep and switched to the raps on multiple occasions. It's not hockey, the team lost its identity and if that's not true it's new identity is softy soft and the softy softs.

Fire him, when the group fails. Fire Dubas and figure out what sort of team you want Shanahan, punk lost the plot with this Dubas kid. I seriously hope to read that Shanny was pushed into hiring Dubas by Bell and Rogers because of the progressive yackity shmack image stuff. Just for his own dignity, I already know this is going sideways.

 

[MyBudJT]

Leafs are playing at a 101 point pace, with no support from our back-up goaltender (126 point pace when Freddy starts)... and apparently our coach is doing a shitty job.... go figure.

Don't confused this with suggesting he's doing a phenomenal job. I just know someone will claim thats what I'm saying... I'm not saying that... but he hasn't been an issue, either.

 

[Dreakmur]

Our guys haven't experienced enough loosing too understand the commitment required in compete for contending status in the NHL. Things have come too fast and too easy for this group. The next step requires a level of hardship for this group to get through.

That's where this young group is at. The group doesn't have a coaching problem, doesn't have a lack of toughness problem, doesn't even have a back up goalie problem or a structure defensive problem.

They have an internal fortitude problem to compete each and every shift before the thought of scoring goals enters the mindset which is common for teams deep in high-end talent... Unfortantely the teacher isn't the coaching. The teacher is loosing. The question is will the team (players + coaches + management) be awarded the required time for the teaching to be understood by the players?

As they say, rock bottom can be an excellent foundation on which to build. The players will hopefully learn from losing.

 

[DarkKnight]

Did you know Matthews is averaging more shifts per game than any other forward in the top ten in scoring? Probably not, because we only point to stats that support our pre-existing hatred, rather than a fair review of all inputs.

Is interesting though...