Confirmed with Link: Signed: Vladislav Namestnikov (2X2)

kliq

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Dec 17, 2017
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At the end of the day, having some competition for the kids is never a bad thing. If guys like Svech, Zadina, Ras etc. want to play, out work these vets in practice & training camp. Force them to play you.

For the record I want to see Svech play, and I will be upset if he doesnt, but I'd like to see him take a spot opposed to being given one just cause.
 
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kliq

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Dec 17, 2017
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Why there has to be a move?

Like send to other team or bought out?

He can just exist on our team, and be outside the Top12 forwards.

Why can't he be sent down to AHL? Does it bother you if we dont have him in our top 13?
 

Gniwder

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Like When Svech led the team in scoring in the preseason?
Like when Svech was second to Mantha in shots in the same amount of minutes in the preseason?
Or led the team in high danger scoring chances?
Top 5 in CF%, coming in following Larkin, Mantha and Bertuzzi?
Or how, in limited regular season action, he averaged 13+ shots per 60.
I'm not saying Svech is going to be a star. But I think he can be a big-bodied 15-25 goal winger with playmaking ability and the ability to play the front of the net and the boards.
He's like a bigger, but slower Tomas Tatar.
I'd love to see us develop that.
And if turns into a 25-goal winger and we don't have room for him because Berggren/Raymond are ready - we've got a valuable trade asset.
Svech still had knee issues last season. Slow players don't fit the NHL anymore, and the team knows more than we do. I hope he still gets a shot though.

I don't really understand your assessment of Cholo considering we both agree on Sanderson. I would have been fine if the team picked Sanderson at 4. Mobile, physical and plays with a lot of confidence, opposite of Cholo.
 

RedMenace

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From: Buyout FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps.

Buyouts Outside of the Regular Period


Clubs whom have 1 or more arbitration filings may be permitted to perform a buyout outside of the regular window. This gives teams another opportunity to become cap compliant following an arbitration case.

I can only hope this means Nielsen is done. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, but he just looks like he doesn't have the drive anymore. Anyone else think he might just call it a career if that happens?

Not upset about the Stink signing, and I speculated it back in July... yay me. As long as the roster isn't crammed too full (unless they're planning on expanding the rosters), I don't have a problem with anything SFY has done so far.

Tangentially, out of all the "expendables" on this team, I have to think the one who doesn't get traded is LGD. He's just too much of an asset for the bottom-6, and has to be one of the hardest working role models you could ask for to mentor the young guys and provide that stabilizing vet presence.

I can't remember if he had a letter before this season, but he definitely should now that Thrakkorzog is gone.
 

Gniwder

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This is a nice surprise.

Our team has more legitimate NHL talent than last year.

And it's another guy motivated to play for the Wings on a personal level.
Exactly. He didn't sign a bunch of Vanek type players. Every single player is out to prove something.

They may wind up at the bottom again, but I expect every player to put out effort this season. Something that was sorely lacking last season, and Blash shouldered much of the blame. Win or lose, I expect the team to come out fighting every game.
 

SimonEdvinssonAtSix

It's possible to commit no mistakes and still lose
Nov 2, 2018
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Exactly. He didn't sign a bunch of Vanek type players. Every single player is out to prove something.

They may wind up at the bottom again, but I expect every player to put out effort this season. Something that was sorely lacking last season, and Blash shouldered much of the blame. Win or lose, I expect the team to come out fighting every game.

Exactly this.

These guys are not Vaneks or hell even Fillapulas ( the Babcock pronunciation )
they are more in line with Nemeth, who was a pleasant surprise in my book. Played hard and very well but just in a bit to over his head considering the talent level of the team.
 

Zetterberg4Captain

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Aug 11, 2009
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Agree

I think SY believes Svech, Cholo, Turgeon and probably Ras all suck and arent going to amount to much so no sense saving them a spot or even 2nd in line for a spot
 

GreatGordie9

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May 11, 2019
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We have improved our defense no question about that with Merrill, Staal and Stecher. Our team obviously needs offensive defensemen but you also need the shut down guys as well.
 

MBH

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Exactly this.

These guys are not Vaneks or hell even Fillapulas ( the Babcock pronunciation )
they are more in line with Nemeth, who was a pleasant surprise in my book. Played hard and very well but just in a bit to over his head considering the talent level of the team.

Vanek was actually good.
That's the one signing, at least version 1.0, that worked out.
Vanek's 38 points in 48 games in 16-17 was better than Ryan's points per game average every year of his career but one.
Better than Namestnikov has ever done.
It's exactly Gagner's career high.
 

lilidk

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Mar 4, 2008
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Like When Svech led the team in scoring in the preseason?
Like when Svech was second to Mantha in shots in the same amount of minutes in the preseason?
Or led the team in high danger scoring chances?
Top 5 in CF%, coming in following Larkin, Mantha and Bertuzzi?
Or how, in limited regular season action, he averaged 13+ shots per 60.
I'm not saying Svech is going to be a star. But I think he can be a big-bodied 15-25 goal winger with playmaking ability and the ability to play the front of the net and the boards.
He's like a bigger, but slower Tomas Tatar.
I'd love to see us develop that.
And if turns into a 25-goal winger and we don't have room for him because Berggren/Raymond are ready - we've got a valuable trade asset.
I'd keep Svechnikov for now, he was not 100% last season.
 

SimonEdvinssonAtSix

It's possible to commit no mistakes and still lose
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Vanek was actually good.
That's the one signing, at least version 1.0, that worked out.
Vanek's 38 points in 48 games in 16-17 was better than Ryan's points per game average every year of his career but one.
Better than Namestnikov has ever done.
It's exactly Gagner's career high.

I've got nothing for ya bud.

Whatever I say to this you'll just say something opposite.

So I'll just say this, I bet we get better draft picks for these guys then what we got for Vanek
 

MBH

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I'd keep Svechnikov for now, he was not 100% last season.

I'd absolutely keep Svech and unless he's awful, play him regularly.
And you're going to have a hard time convincing me he's worse than Nielsen, Abdelkader, Erne, Perlini, Gagner etc etc etc.

There's no reason he shouldn't be in the lineup.

But as of now, I don't see how they make room for him.
 
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MBH

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I've got nothing for ya bud.

Whatever I say to this you'll just say something opposite.

So I'll just say this, I bet we get better draft picks for these guys then what we got for Vanek

If you think Bobby Ryan nets you a better pick than 38 point in 48 game Vanek --- I don't know what to tell you.

What's the f***ing point of trading for 3rd and 4th round picks if we don't commit to riding out the struggles of first round picks?
 

SimonEdvinssonAtSix

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If you think Bobby Ryan nets you a better pick than 38 point in 48 game Vanek --- I don't know what to tell you.

What's the f***ing point of trading for 3rd and 4th round picks if we don't commit to riding out the struggles of first round picks?

These are not Yzermans first round picks that are struggling.
This stable of prospects are not Yzermans guys and I am of the opinion that Yzerman is not impressed with them.

So the point of trading for more picks is that Yzerman can pick his own guys, build the prospect pool how he sees fit.
Rebuild the team through the draft with as many picks as he can get to optimise our chances at landing good players.

In order to do that he needs to have draft capital. He has to have assets to sell to get draft capital.

Do I think Bobby Ryan can net more than a 3rd and McIlrath? I think he has the potential to net more, yes. It depends on his play during the season.
 

Mlotek

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Feb 28, 2017
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If you think Bobby Ryan nets you a better pick than 38 point in 48 game Vanek --- I don't know what to tell you.

What's the f***ing point of trading for 3rd and 4th round picks if we don't commit to riding out the struggles of first round picks?

Keep in mind Vanek has a 73% offensive zone start that first stint, guy was sheltered more than a rookie. Vanek had offensive creativity, slow skating, and no concept of what defense is.

The value for that isn't that high unfortunately, but that doesn't mean there isn't any interest. During his second stint with Detroit, Boston offered a mid/late round pick for Vanek who decline to waive his NTC.


Will be interesting to see what Ryan has left in the tank, I'd be happy if he gets 30 points.
 

Marky9er

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Jan 30, 2008
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Ok with it assuming theres no clauses that require him to be protected in the expansion draft.
 

Winger98

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What would the price be to draw actual talent to this team?
The UFA route would lead us to Krug and I think he would have wanted even more than he signed for in STL to come here. If we are trading, what assets of value do we have that we can spare? We can't trade our 1st unless it's top 10 protected and that would significantly decrease its value. So what options are we really left with?

We all agree for the most part that building through the draft is what we have to do. We all also mostly agree that our rebuild has at least a few years left. Our roster is a blank slate besides Larkin when it comes to players signed in a few seasons, so Yzerman has a unique opportunity to shape this rebuild any way he wants.

By signing the low risk / medium reward players to short term contracts 2 goals are accomplished.
1.) We become more competitive in the short term while still ensuring a good draft pick.
2.) We add assets to our inventory for the TDL giving us more capital come draft day.

I don't think Yzerman is impressed with our current stable of prospects and I think we as fans value Cholo and company much more than the org does at this point.

Until noon today it would have been $5m. Coming into this summer, we had ~$27m in cap space (plus LTIR space from Zetterberg if we wanted to really get crazy), over $50m next summer, and then more the summer after that. We have the space to overpay a bit for a few select pieces to bring in legitimate talent instead of guys who we hope rebound to the point of producing like a league average third liner.

Don't want to add Krug? Go after Tanev. Or Vatanen. Or, right now, throw something big Pietrangelo rather than rinky dinking around with Merril, some nuck castoff, and a low end Staal brother. Up front, Hall is said to be looking at short contracts. Throw big money at him for three years and deal him after carrying a second line for two seasons. We would probably grab at least one 1st in the deal, as well as prospects.

Bringing in a high end piece slots everyone down a peg, takes pressure off kids to carry the team, and gives them quality to learn from. Bringing in Bobby Ryan gives them a 33 year old desperate to earn a bigger paycheck next summer and revolving door.

This is beside the fact that we already were looking at dealing Flip, Nemeth, Glendening, and Bernier this season. We have plenty of guys to flip for picks.

You seem to really have an issue with this.

It's reasonable for a business owner to be conservative in an uncertain economic condition considering they will have no arena income for the season regardless of how good the team is. Quite frankly, I'm glad he was willing to spend as much as he did. The Penguins and Capitals both iced AHL level teams for multiple seasons. If there was ever a season to flat out tank, this was it. Instead they added a bunch of tradeable assets.

It really wouldn't make sense to add high end talent this season, just to be a mediocre team that barely misses the playoffs. And I certainly don't blame him for not wanting to buy picks by taking huge cap dumps.

In the end they added cheap second tier talent to avoid being a complete dumpster fire again. Steve actually made more moves than I expected, though I expected a better D, and not so many moves on offense.

You're glad he spent barely above the bare minimum to fill out a 22 man roster.

This is one of the few times where gobs of cap space and the willingness to use it could have been a massive advantage. Everyone was talking about how Krug would commange $8m, and he signed for $6.5m. Holtby was going to get $6m. Didn't. Pietrangelo, Hall, Dadonov, Hoffman, and Toffoli still can't find homes. Hell, I think the only guy who got a contract in line with what people were upset about before free agency happened was Markstrom.

Look, we disagree on the quality of at least half the guys the Wings added this summer, that it's a smart business option to cheap out on investing in the team, and that it's best for the team to be a tire fire for the second season in a row.

Twenty years ago, when the Pens were collecting Crosby, Malkin, and Fleury? Sure, maybe a better time to be crap for multiple years. Though the Oil did that and...well, yeah. Arizona has been bad for quite awhile, do you see the end in sight for them? Or Buffalo? Or Florida? Or...hell, pick another team that's been crap for a number of years. Meanwhile, the Rangers have drafted 1/2 over the past two years, signed Panarin, traded for Trouba, and are nearly a playoff team. We're seeing Chicago reload while still having actual talent. Dallas dealt for Seguin, lucked into Hiskanen and played for a Cup this year.

Being flat out awful, adding assets no one else wanted, wasting an opportunity to take advantage of other teams being unable to spend, and extending this rebuild out by jettisoning everything done the past two years is the wrong move. Yeah, Yzerman gets to put his stamp on the rebuild. Maybe. Unless Ilitch isn't willing to spend five years from now, either, because he's going to get his money from TV deals, merch, and whatever else anyway. Good business and all.

edit: and the business thing isn't even going near the whole arena being subsidized by the people, the vacant land Ilitch has sat on for years, having the Joe on absurdly friendly terms for decades, etc. Yeah, Ilitch holdings has done pretty damn well working with the city of Detroit and could afford to eat a season.
 

Gniwder

Registered User
Oct 12, 2009
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Until noon today it would have been $5m. Coming into this summer, we had ~$27m in cap space (plus LTIR space from Zetterberg if we wanted to really get crazy), over $50m next summer, and then more the summer after that. We have the space to overpay a bit for a few select pieces to bring in legitimate talent instead of guys who we hope rebound to the point of producing like a league average third liner.

Don't want to add Krug? Go after Tanev. Or Vatanen. Or, right now, throw something big Pietrangelo rather than rinky dinking around with Merril, some nuck castoff, and a low end Staal brother. Up front, Hall is said to be looking at short contracts. Throw big money at him for three years and deal him after carrying a second line for two seasons. We would probably grab at least one 1st in the deal, as well as prospects.

Bringing in a high end piece slots everyone down a peg, takes pressure off kids to carry the team, and gives them quality to learn from. Bringing in Bobby Ryan gives them a 33 year old desperate to earn a bigger paycheck next summer and revolving door.

This is beside the fact that we already were looking at dealing Flip, Nemeth, Glendening, and Bernier this season. We have plenty of guys to flip for picks.



You're glad he spent barely above the bare minimum to fill out a 22 man roster.

This is one of the few times where gobs of cap space and the willingness to use it could have been a massive advantage. Everyone was talking about how Krug would commange $8m, and he signed for $6.5m. Holtby was going to get $6m. Didn't. Pietrangelo, Hall, Dadonov, Hoffman, and Toffoli still can't find homes. Hell, I think the only guy who got a contract in line with what people were upset about before free agency happened was Markstrom.

Look, we disagree on the quality of at least half the guys the Wings added this summer, that it's a smart business option to cheap out on investing in the team, and that it's best for the team to be a tire fire for the second season in a row.

Twenty years ago, when the Pens were collecting Crosby, Malkin, and Fleury? Sure, maybe a better time to be crap for multiple years. Though the Oil did that and...well, yeah. Arizona has been bad for quite awhile, do you see the end in sight for them? Or Buffalo? Or Florida? Or...hell, pick another team that's been crap for a number of years. Meanwhile, the Rangers have drafted 1/2 over the past two years, signed Panarin, traded for Trouba, and are nearly a playoff team. We're seeing Chicago reload while still having actual talent. Dallas dealt for Seguin, lucked into Hiskanen and played for a Cup this year.

Being flat out awful, adding assets no one else wanted, wasting an opportunity to take advantage of other teams being unable to spend, and extending this rebuild out by jettisoning everything done the past two years is the wrong move. Yeah, Yzerman gets to put his stamp on the rebuild. Maybe. Unless Ilitch isn't willing to spend five years from now, either, because he's going to get his money from TV deals, merch, and whatever else anyway. Good business and all.
I'm confident Chris will spend the money once the league is making money again. Top 5 pick looks to be a solid 1st pair D this draft, I'm OK with another year of suck.

I watched the Caps rebuild, it just takes patience. If the team gets their top line D and C the next 2 drafts and they don't spend the money after that, then I'll be disappointed.

I posted this a couple of weeks ago, but the Pens didn't spend (UFA Gonchar) until they drafted Crosby and that was after they had already drafted Whitney, MAF, and Malkin. The Caps didn't spend in free agency until they fired McPhee (UFAs Niskanen and Orpik).

If the eventual goal is a Cup, it's too early to start spending, because the team hasn't drafted elite talent yet (or maybe Raymond proves me wrong).

Edit: My whole point is that the team doesn't have an elite talent to build around yet. I will be patient until then.
 

SimonEdvinssonAtSix

It's possible to commit no mistakes and still lose
Nov 2, 2018
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Until noon today it would have been $5m. Coming into this summer, we had ~$27m in cap space (plus LTIR space from Zetterberg if we wanted to really get crazy), over $50m next summer, and then more the summer after that. We have the space to overpay a bit for a few select pieces to bring in legitimate talent instead of guys who we hope rebound to the point of producing like a league average third liner.

Don't want to add Krug? Go after Tanev. Or Vatanen. Or, right now, throw something big Pietrangelo rather than rinky dinking around with Merril, some nuck castoff, and a low end Staal brother. Up front, Hall is said to be looking at short contracts. Throw big money at him for three years and deal him after carrying a second line for two seasons. We would probably grab at least one 1st in the deal, as well as prospects.

Bringing in a high end piece slots everyone down a peg, takes pressure off kids to carry the team, and gives them quality to learn from. Bringing in Bobby Ryan gives them a 33 year old desperate to earn a bigger paycheck next summer and revolving door.

This is beside the fact that we already were looking at dealing Flip, Nemeth, Glendening, and Bernier this season. We have plenty of guys to flip for picks.

Who's to say we didn't go after Krug, or Hall, or Tanev?
Perhaps being the absolute worst team in the league last year has guys who want to win deciding to sign with clubs that can win? That leaves us with projects like Ryan. But his contract is short and he will be playing for his career.
Heart can drive some of these guys to exceed expectations greatly and inflate their TDL value.

So we should overpay to get talent? Krug got 6.5 x 7. Do we really want to pay him 8M x 7?
I think that would put us in our current situation in 4-5 years.

And are we really in a position to be balking at the amount of guys we can flip at the deadline?
We should be flipping everyone that we can and adding more to that list is a positive, it means more picks.
Because thats what we need. Picks. That's how we will rebuild, through the draft and with as many picks as we can get.
Overpaying for UFAs is what got us into this mess.
Trading futures for roster players is what got us into this mess.
Repeating those actions will result in the same.

We need futures. We need draft picks. The more we acquire the faster this rebuild will go.
 

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