Confirmed with Link: Signed: Vladislav Namestnikov (2X2)

[Realgud]

I'd like to see Svech play on a line with Namestnikov, he deserves a real chance (and more than 4 games...). I swear if Hirose is on the roster before Svech I'm gonna lose it.

 

[Kingpin794]

I'd like to see Svech play on a line with Namestnikov, he deserves a real chance (and more than 4 games...). I swear if Hirose is on the roster before Svech I'm gonna lose it.

Why? Neither of these guys are of much consequence for the future. Why get upset about if either plays?

 

[NickH8]

These are not Yzermans first round picks that are struggling.
This stable of prospects are not Yzermans guys and I am of the opinion that Yzerman is not impressed with them.

So the point of trading for more picks is that Yzerman can pick his own guys, build the prospect pool how he sees fit.
Rebuild the team through the draft with as many picks as he can get to optimise our chances at landing good players.

In order to do that he needs to have draft capital. He has to have assets to sell to get draft capital.

Do I think Bobby Ryan can net more than a 3rd and McIlrath? I think he has the potential to net more, yes. It depends on his play during the season.

Yzerman is for sure not impressed with them. Svechnikov has not been a big producer in the AHL yet and production is what you need from the type of player he is. Hirose is super predictable, everybody knows he's gonna pass. He needs to round out his game. Rasmussen could use another year of development, preferably not in Austria though. Cholowski is nearing Ouellet/Sproul/Marchenko levels of bust.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Nice, I like the term and the AAV. It's pretty clear most of our "prospects" outside of Zadina aren't likely to play in Detroit this year. May also signal Neilsen is getting bought out which is fine with me.

 

[Realgud]

Why? Neither of these guys are of much consequence for the future. Why get upset about if either plays?

Svechnikov played really well in the 4 games last season. He deserves a real chance to produce and the future of this team could definitely use a player of his profile. I don't know why we act like Svech is worth nothing and can't be part of the future.

 

[KasperTheGrittyGhost]

Why? Neither of these guys are of much consequence for the future. Why get upset about if either plays?

Svechnikov is exponentially more talented than a guy like Hirose. He was a first round pick for good reasons, and his play hasn’t been dragged down by much other than injury. If he gets he can play with confidence, that’s a physical scoring threat in the system we don’t really have anywhere else.

 

[Realgud]

Svechnikov is exponentially more talented than a guy like Hirose. He was a first round pick for good reasons, and his play hasn’t been dragged down by much other than injury. If he gets he can play with confidence, that’s a physical scoring threat in the system we don’t really have anywhere else.

Thank you, the bolded is exactly what I mean.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

Svechnikov played really well in the 4 games last season. He deserves a real chance to produce and the future of this team could definitely use a player of his profile. I don't know why we act like Svech is worth nothing and can't be part of the future.

Exactly

This “Svech isn’t an NHL player” narrative is ridiculous

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

This team can fill a few rosters with 3rd and 4th liners and 3rd pair d-men now.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

Y’all think Stevie is done with UFAs? I feel we’re going to see a trade and then bring in Gustaffson. Just a hunch that will likely never come into fruition

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Exactly

This “Svech isn’t an NHL player” narrative is ridiculous

It's not that he doesn't have the capability to be an NHL player. It's that he shouldn't be gifted a roster spot to be an NHL player over other guys just because we might lose him to waivers. If we do, we do. He's got potential. The like twenty prospects we've taken in the last year do as well. Guys like Fabbri and Timashov and others do. If Svech could keep himself healthy and really get into the swing of things, he could give Steve a tough decision. But right now? He's injury prone and eh.

 

[FMichael]

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Until noon today it would have been $5m. Coming into this summer, we had ~$27m in cap space (plus LTIR space from Zetterberg if we wanted to really get crazy), over $50m next summer, and then more the summer after that. We have the space to overpay a bit for a few select pieces to bring in legitimate talent instead of guys who we hope rebound to the point of producing like a league average third liner.

Don't want to add Krug? Go after Tanev. Or Vatanen. Or, right now, throw something big Pietrangelo rather than rinky dinking around with Merril, some nuck castoff, and a low end Staal brother. Up front, Hall is said to be looking at short contracts. Throw big money at him for three years and deal him after carrying a second line for two seasons. We would probably grab at least one 1st in the deal, as well as prospects.

Bringing in a high end piece slots everyone down a peg, takes pressure off kids to carry the team, and gives them quality to learn from. Bringing in Bobby Ryan gives them a 33 year old desperate to earn a bigger paycheck next summer and revolving door.

This is beside the fact that we already were looking at dealing Flip, Nemeth, Glendening, and Bernier this season. We have plenty of guys to flip for picks.



You're glad he spent barely above the bare minimum to fill out a 22 man roster.

This is one of the few times where gobs of cap space and the willingness to use it could have been a massive advantage. Everyone was talking about how Krug would commange $8m, and he signed for $6.5m. Holtby was going to get $6m. Didn't. Pietrangelo, Hall, Dadonov, Hoffman, and Toffoli still can't find homes. Hell, I think the only guy who got a contract in line with what people were upset about before free agency happened was Markstrom.

Look, we disagree on the quality of at least half the guys the Wings added this summer, that it's a smart business option to cheap out on investing in the team, and that it's best for the team to be a tire fire for the second season in a row.

Twenty years ago, when the Pens were collecting Crosby, Malkin, and Fleury? Sure, maybe a better time to be crap for multiple years. Though the Oil did that and...well, yeah. Arizona has been bad for quite awhile, do you see the end in sight for them? Or Buffalo? Or Florida? Or...hell, pick another team that's been crap for a number of years. Meanwhile, the Rangers have drafted 1/2 over the past two years, signed Panarin, traded for Trouba, and are nearly a playoff team. We're seeing Chicago reload while still having actual talent. Dallas dealt for Seguin, lucked into Hiskanen and played for a Cup this year.

Being flat out awful, adding assets no one else wanted, wasting an opportunity to take advantage of other teams being unable to spend, and extending this rebuild out by jettisoning everything done the past two years is the wrong move. Yeah, Yzerman gets to put his stamp on the rebuild. Maybe. Unless Ilitch isn't willing to spend five years from now, either, because he's going to get his money from TV deals, merch, and whatever else anyway. Good business and all.

edit: and the business thing isn't even going near the whole arena being subsidized by the people, the vacant land Ilitch has sat on for years, having the Joe on absurdly friendly terms for decades, etc. Yeah, Ilitch holdings has done pretty damn well working with the city of Detroit and could afford to eat a season.

1) The guys have to want to sign here. And if you're Torey Krug or Alex Pietrangelo or Taylor Hall... are you going to take 7x6.5, 7x8.5-9, or 1x8 from Detroit to play with average players and a bunch of stiffs? Would you take an extra million per year to do that instead of getting that money from contenders/a team with a player that we have nothing like (Eichel and Dahlin are both worlds better than anything Detroit has)

2) Assets nobody wanted? Ottawa fans have pointed out that Ryan's been a good dude for them and he's not completely shot yet. Nuck fans are sad that they lost Stecher and saying how much we'll love him. Greiss is a legit 1a/1b platoon guy. Namestnikov is a guy who's been tossed around the league a bunch, but he's also that kind of player that teams want at that price. Had the Wings gone out and gone nuts on adding through FA and capped themselves out right now... you'd be screaming bloody murder in about two years when guys aged a tiny little bit and they weren't good investments.

Okposo, Ladd, Eriksson, Lucic, Nielsen, etc. Those guys all looked like kind of solid adds in 2016's FA frenzy. Those 5 are among the worst contracts in hockey no more than two-three years later.

3) If the Wings landed lottery picks in back to back seasons like NYR or Edmonton or Chicago or whoever, I'm sure they would have gone about building the team differently.

4) Lastly, the Wings have their entire roster basically to be expiring and replaceable by next offseason... which, by the way, is also under the same 81.5m cap. And even more so by the next offseason... which, by the way, is under the same 81.5m cap. The Wings are patiently trying to build a roster that makes sense. It's not that I've got blind faith that Yzerman is going to build a contender without fail... it really is that I can see his plan. I can see what he's trying to do and in a cap world, particularly a cap world that has the cap's growth locked in place for two more years after this one per COVID, I can see that the plan makes sense. Would it have been great to see them add a guy like Brodie at the price he was signed? Absolutely. But Brodie went to a better team in the Leafs. Turris instead of Namestnikov? Perhaps. Adding Tyler Johnson via waivers? Again, maybe. But there is absolutely a logical base to what Yzerman is doing that isn't "Chris Ilitch doesn't want to pay salaries."

If you were a Houston Astros fan, are you pissed that they spent like 2012-2015 paying their guys in bubble gum wrappers when they were accumulating talent? Maybe at that time... but you really stopped caring once 2017 hit and the Cheatstros stole the WS from the Dodgers and that they're in line to potentially steal the series again.

 

[Winger98]

I'm confident Chris will spend the money once the league is making money again. Top 5 pick looks to be a solid 1st pair D this draft, I'm OK with another year of suck.

I watched the Caps rebuild, it just takes patience. If the team gets their top line D and C the next 2 drafts and they don't spend the money after that, then I'll be disappointed.

I posted this a couple of weeks ago, but the Pens didn't spend (UFA Gonchar) until they drafted Crosby and that was after they had already drafted Whitney, MAF, and Malkin. The Caps didn't spend in free agency until they fired McPhee (UFAs Niskanen and Orpik).

If the eventual goal is a Cup, it's too early to start spending, because the team hasn't drafted elite talent yet (or maybe Raymond proves me wrong).

Edit: My whole point is that the team doesn't have an elite talent to build around yet. I will be patient until then.

I don't have the same confidence. His old man would, without a doubt, and it's what saw the franchise values for the Tigers and Wings increase by leaps and bounds. Watching how he controls the checkbook with the Tigers, where being willing to spend can have a far greater and more immediate impact on a club, doesn't give me great hope for how he'll spend on the Wings.

I'm not sure you need so much elite talent now. I've already talked elsewhere about how Cup winning and contending teams are seeming to become more and more pedestrian, and that the way the draft lotto works makes being awful really not worth it. The elite players on those Pens teams were drafted nearly 20 years ago now. same with the Hawks. Ovi was drafted nearly 20 years ago.

Truth is we might not get that elite talent, unless we sign it (like Pietrangelo?). And waiting around for it to happen, and then for it to coincide with other pieces popping up in free agency, and then being able to afford those pieces, or able to deal for them...I've said it before, but you're asking to end up being in that area where you're always waiting for the perfect moment with the perfect player.

Who's to say we didn't go after Krug, or Hall, or Tanev?
Perhaps being the absolute worst team in the league last year has guys who want to win deciding to sign with clubs that can win? That leaves us with projects like Ryan. But his contract is short and he will be playing for his career.
Heart can drive some of these guys to exceed expectations greatly and inflate their TDL value.

So we should overpay to get talent? Krug got 6.5 x 7. Do we really want to pay him 8M x 7?
I think that would put us in our current situation in 4-5 years.

And are we really in a position to be balking at the amount of guys we can flip at the deadline?
We should be flipping everyone that we can and adding more to that list is a positive, it means more picks.
Because thats what we need. Picks. That's how we will rebuild, through the draft and with as many picks as we can get.
Overpaying for UFAs is what got us into this mess.
Trading futures for roster players is what got us into this mess.
Repeating those actions will result in the same.

We need futures. We need draft picks. The more we acquire the faster this rebuild will go.

One year. Eight million. To play in Buffalo.

We didn't put a claim in on Johnson despite needing a 2C, instead going cheap on a TB retread in Namestnikov.
The one cap dump we pick up is a guy whose salary is $1.5m lower than his cap hit, of which $1m was a signing bonus that I think was already paid by NYR.
Abdelkader was bought out despite its effect on our cap number being negligible, though the amount of actual money being saved was $3m.
Bertuzzi is having to take the organization to arby to get a contract done.
Rumors of Mantha's deal is that the organization is seeking a shorter, cheaper deal.
And how much do you want to bet that we stash a bunch of guys in Europe for the whole season, pushing back their next contracts in Detroit or seriously hampering their bargaining stance?

You want to know how I know the Wings didn't aggressively pursue any good UFA? Because Yzerman's been cutting corners all summer. Do I want to pay good players to come to Detroit? Yes, because good players make the players around them better. Get rid of Ryan and Namestnikov, spend $13m on Hall and Johnson. Or even just the $8m on Hall because he allows us to shift Bert/Mantha down to line two, and they can carry one of our mediocre choices for that center spot. And that knocks other guys down to line three, and takes pressure off other kids coming into the lineup.

We have plenty of picks. We have plenty of players to deal for picks. What we don't have is enough good players. And, yeah, there comes a point where having more players in the system doesn't help you. You run out of contracts. You run out of places to put therm where they can still get playing time. You lose the ability to assess all of them and develop them properly. And second round picks aren't exactly horribly valuable.

Go back five years to 2015 draft and Sebastian Aho is the only 2nd rounder to put up more than 100 points in his career. In fact, he's the only player outside of the first round to do it. The 2016 draft, Debrincat is the only 2nd rounder to break 100 points. Jesper Bratt is the only other player outside of the 1st round to do it. From the 2017 draft, the highwater mark for production outside of the first round is...20 points. If we go all the way back to the 2014 draft. we finally start seeing multiple players break 100 points when drafted outside of the first round...five of them. There have been 17 players from the first round break 100 points. same in 2015. Just six in 2016. Only two from 2017, but 12 players have bested that high of 20 points leading rounds 2-7.

So, yeah, it'll be nice to have three picks in the second round again. In three years, one of them might score 20 points for us. In five years, if we're absurdly lucky, one might break 100 points for his career. So, you want another reason to overpay on legitimately good players? Because they will likely have higher value if we want to deal them later, too. Give Taylor Hall $12m this year. Or Pietrangelo. And promise to do whatever you can to facilitate a trade to a contender 2/3 of the way through the season. And you likely get at least a 1st out of it, and a lot higher likelihood that you then draft a guy who will put some decent numbers on the board for you in the next five years.

This is a long post and I know it goes off on a bit of a tangent, sorry about that, but stockpiling picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds is worse than playing the lotto. Even if we're overpaying better players to just come here for 2/3 of a season before being dealt, we're likely getting a far better return and a leg up on the rebuild than spending less on guys like Ryan, Namestnikov, and Merril. And whoever that guy from Vancouver is (I'm not trying to knock the guy with that, I really just can't remember his name).

 

[Winger98]

1) The guys have to want to sign here. And if you're Torey Krug or Alex Pietrangelo or Taylor Hall... are you going to take 7x6.5, 7x8.5-9, or 1x8 from Detroit to play with average players and a bunch of stiffs? Would you take an extra million per year to do that instead of getting that money from contenders/a team with a player that we have nothing like (Eichel and Dahlin are both worlds better than anything Detroit has)

2) Assets nobody wanted? Ottawa fans have pointed out that Ryan's been a good dude for them and he's not completely shot yet. Nuck fans are sad that they lost Stecher and saying how much we'll love him. Greiss is a legit 1a/1b platoon guy. Namestnikov is a guy who's been tossed around the league a bunch, but he's also that kind of player that teams want at that price. Had the Wings gone out and gone nuts on adding through FA and capped themselves out right now... you'd be screaming bloody murder in about two years when guys aged a tiny little bit and they weren't good investments.

Okposo, Ladd, Eriksson, Lucic, Nielsen, etc. Those guys all looked like kind of solid adds in 2016's FA frenzy. Those 5 are among the worst contracts in hockey no more than two-three years later.

3) If the Wings landed lottery picks in back to back seasons like NYR or Edmonton or Chicago or whoever, I'm sure they would have gone about building the team differently.

4) Lastly, the Wings have their entire roster basically to be expiring and replaceable by next offseason... which, by the way, is also under the same 81.5m cap. And even more so by the next offseason... which, by the way, is under the same 81.5m cap. The Wings are patiently trying to build a roster that makes sense. It's not that I've got blind faith that Yzerman is going to build a contender without fail... it really is that I can see his plan. I can see what he's trying to do and in a cap world, particularly a cap world that has the cap's growth locked in place for two more years after this one per COVID, I can see that the plan makes sense. Would it have been great to see them add a guy like Brodie at the price he was signed? Absolutely. But Brodie went to a better team in the Leafs. Turris instead of Namestnikov? Perhaps. Adding Tyler Johnson via waivers? Again, maybe. But there is absolutely a logical base to what Yzerman is doing that isn't "Chris Ilitch doesn't want to pay salaries."

If you were a Houston Astros fan, are you pissed that they spent like 2012-2015 paying their guys in bubble gum wrappers when they were accumulating talent? Maybe at that time... but you really stopped caring once 2017 hit and the Cheatstros stole the WS from the Dodgers and that they're in line to potentially steal the series again.

1. Do you seriously not think that money is doing the talking in these negotiations? Give Pietraangelo $10m a year. He's worth it. Give Hall $10m for one year. Even if we just deal him 2/3 of the way through the season, we'll get back an asset that will actually be of substance unlike when we try to deal pretty much any other UFA to be on our team at the moment. Yeah, I think Yzerman could get in the room at this point and money will carry the conversation.

2. I'm pretty sure Krug, Pietro, Hall, Hoffman, and Dadonov are better players than any of the players you listed when they reached UFA. Maybe not Ladd. But we've also seen some of those guys get destroyed with injuries. Hockey's a violent sport, injuries happen. I'm pretty sure you can go back through my post history and see me defending a lot of guys (weiss, ericsson, modano) who signed here, got hurt, and had their careers blow up from it. So, no, I don't think I'd be complaining a lot in two years if we signed Hall and he blew out his knee. I wouldn't be happy, but the dude got hurt.

3. I'm pretty sure the Wings have been in the lotto for, what, four years now? Edmonton picked high for like five years in a row and were incapable of putting anything together. Chicago and NYR support my assertion that it's fine to not be godawful because you stand a fair chance of being unfairly rewarded in the lotto anyway. Meanwhile, we've been screwed to varying degrees every one of those four years.

4. I don't see that as a good thing, nor do I buy into the idea that given a whole season and two off-seasons that other teams won't have adjusted their courses to plan for flat cap. They are making those adjustments now. And while the wings could cap themselves out this year, what happens next summer? Roughly $30m drops off their cap again. I think the Wings could manage it going into next summer seeing their cap drop to $50m rather than the $29m it's currently projected to be.

And if I was an Astros fan, I'd be happy that the Astros pulled it off while perrenial doormats like the Pirates, Padres, Marlins, Orioles, Tigers (since Mike Ilitch died anyway), Angels, Rangers...well, let's just say a whole bunch of teams didn't. There's actually more evidence for teams being successful when not bottoming out in MLB.

 

[Gniwder]

I don't have the same confidence. His old man would, without a doubt, and it's what saw the franchise values for the Tigers and Wings increase by leaps and bounds. Watching how he controls the checkbook with the Tigers, where being willing to spend can have a far greater and more immediate impact on a club, doesn't give me great hope for how he'll spend on the Wings.

I'm not sure you need so much elite talent now. I've already talked elsewhere about how Cup winning and contending teams are seeming to become more and more pedestrian, and that the way the draft lotto works makes being awful really not worth it. The elite players on those Pens teams were drafted nearly 20 years ago now. same with the Hawks. Ovi was drafted nearly 20 years ago.

Truth is we might not get that elite talent, unless we sign it (like Pietrangelo?). And waiting around for it to happen, and then for it to coincide with other pieces popping up in free agency, and then being able to afford those pieces, or able to deal for them...I've said it before, but you're asking to end up being in that area where you're always waiting for the perfect moment with the perfect player.



One year. Eight million. To play in Buffalo.

We didn't put a claim in on Johnson despite needing a 2C, instead going cheap on a TB retread in Namestnikov.
The one cap dump we pick up is a guy whose salary is $1.5m lower than his cap hit, of which $1m was a signing bonus that I think was already paid by NYR.
Abdelkader was bought out despite its effect on our cap number being negligible, though the amount of actual money being saved was $3m.
Bertuzzi is having to take the organization to arby to get a contract done.
Rumors of Mantha's deal is that the organization is seeking a shorter, cheaper deal.
And how much do you want to bet that we stash a bunch of guys in Europe for the whole season, pushing back their next contracts in Detroit or seriously hampering their bargaining stance?

You want to know how I know the Wings didn't aggressively pursue any good UFA? Because Yzerman's been cutting corners all summer. Do I want to pay good players to come to Detroit? Yes, because good players make the players around them better. Get rid of Ryan and Namestnikov, spend $13m on Hall and Johnson. Or even just the $8m on Hall because he allows us to shift Bert/Mantha down to line two, and they can carry one of our mediocre choices for that center spot. And that knocks other guys down to line three, and takes pressure off other kids coming into the lineup.

We have plenty of picks. We have plenty of players to deal for picks. What we don't have is enough good players. And, yeah, there comes a point where having more players in the system doesn't help you. You run out of contracts. You run out of places to put therm where they can still get playing time. You lose the ability to assess all of them and develop them properly. And second round picks aren't exactly horribly valuable.

Go back five years to 2015 draft and Sebastian Aho is the only 2nd rounder to put up more than 100 points in his career. In fact, he's the only player outside of the first round to do it. The 2016 draft, Debrincat is the only 2nd rounder to break 100 points. Jesper Bratt is the only other player outside of the 1st round to do it. From the 2017 draft, the highwater mark for production outside of the first round is...20 points. If we go all the way back to the 2014 draft. we finally start seeing multiple players break 100 points when drafted outside of the first round...five of them. There have been 17 players from the first round break 100 points. same in 2015. Just six in 2016. Only two from 2017, but 12 players have bested that high of 20 points leading rounds 2-7.

So, yeah, it'll be nice to have three picks in the second round again. In three years, one of them might score 20 points for us. In five years, if we're absurdly lucky, one might break 100 points for his career. So, you want another reason to overpay on legitimately good players? Because they will likely have higher value if we want to deal them later, too. Give Taylor Hall $12m this year. Or Pietrangelo. And promise to do whatever you can to facilitate a trade to a contender 2/3 of the way through the season. And you likely get at least a 1st out of it, and a lot higher likelihood that you then draft a guy who will put some decent numbers on the board for you in the next five years.

This is a long post and I know it goes off on a bit of a tangent, sorry about that, but stockpiling picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds is worse than playing the lotto. Even if we're overpaying better players to just come here for 2/3 of a season before being dealt, we're likely getting a far better return and a leg up on the rebuild than spending less on guys like Ryan, Namestnikov, and Merril. And whoever that guy from Vancouver is (I'm not trying to knock the guy with that, I really just can't remember his name).

The difference between MLB and NHL is that NHL has a hard cap. The Wings can make money spending the max cap, they have done it before. The Tigers are not guaranteed to make money even if Chris throws money at it. It's also significantly easier to get into the playoffs in the NHL, and with it comes extra income.

So what happens if the Wings buy Pietra? After re-signing Mantha, Bertuzzi, and Timashov, the team doesn't have a legit 2C and winds up being a borderline playoff team for a few years. That is exactly what the tank proponents wanted to avoid.

I am confident Chris throws money in when there's enough of a core to get into the playoffs, simply because it's good business. He'll make more money with more attendance, instead of losing money like he has the past couple of years.

Keep in mind Pittsburgh almost went bankrupt and the Capitals had their fire sale when Leonsis lost money after trading for Jagr. His exact words were "the market has spoken". Now with Ovechkin pulling in an audience, he's spending to the max even during COVID.

Edit: One more thing, Chris is a state champion hockey player and still plays in a beer league (supposedly, not sure which one)

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I don't have the same confidence. His old man would, without a doubt, and it's what saw the franchise values for the Tigers and Wings increase by leaps and bounds. Watching how he controls the checkbook with the Tigers, where being willing to spend can have a far greater and more immediate impact on a club, doesn't give me great hope for how he'll spend on the Wings.

I'm not sure you need so much elite talent now. I've already talked elsewhere about how Cup winning and contending teams are seeming to become more and more pedestrian, and that the way the draft lotto works makes being awful really not worth it. The elite players on those Pens teams were drafted nearly 20 years ago now. same with the Hawks. Ovi was drafted nearly 20 years ago.

Truth is we might not get that elite talent, unless we sign it (like Pietrangelo?). And waiting around for it to happen, and then for it to coincide with other pieces popping up in free agency, and then being able to afford those pieces, or able to deal for them...I've said it before, but you're asking to end up being in that area where you're always waiting for the perfect moment with the perfect player.



One year. Eight million. To play in Buffalo.

We didn't put a claim in on Johnson despite needing a 2C, instead going cheap on a TB retread in Namestnikov.
The one cap dump we pick up is a guy whose salary is $1.5m lower than his cap hit, of which $1m was a signing bonus that I think was already paid by NYR.
Abdelkader was bought out despite its effect on our cap number being negligible, though the amount of actual money being saved was $3m.
Bertuzzi is having to take the organization to arby to get a contract done.
Rumors of Mantha's deal is that the organization is seeking a shorter, cheaper deal.
And how much do you want to bet that we stash a bunch of guys in Europe for the whole season, pushing back their next contracts in Detroit or seriously hampering their bargaining stance?

You want to know how I know the Wings didn't aggressively pursue any good UFA? Because Yzerman's been cutting corners all summer. Do I want to pay good players to come to Detroit? Yes, because good players make the players around them better. Get rid of Ryan and Namestnikov, spend $13m on Hall and Johnson. Or even just the $8m on Hall because he allows us to shift Bert/Mantha down to line two, and they can carry one of our mediocre choices for that center spot. And that knocks other guys down to line three, and takes pressure off other kids coming into the lineup.

We have plenty of picks. We have plenty of players to deal for picks. What we don't have is enough good players. And, yeah, there comes a point where having more players in the system doesn't help you. You run out of contracts. You run out of places to put therm where they can still get playing time. You lose the ability to assess all of them and develop them properly. And second round picks aren't exactly horribly valuable.

Go back five years to 2015 draft and Sebastian Aho is the only 2nd rounder to put up more than 100 points in his career. In fact, he's the only player outside of the first round to do it. The 2016 draft, Debrincat is the only 2nd rounder to break 100 points. Jesper Bratt is the only other player outside of the 1st round to do it. From the 2017 draft, the highwater mark for production outside of the first round is...20 points. If we go all the way back to the 2014 draft. we finally start seeing multiple players break 100 points when drafted outside of the first round...five of them. There have been 17 players from the first round break 100 points. same in 2015. Just six in 2016. Only two from 2017, but 12 players have bested that high of 20 points leading rounds 2-7.

So, yeah, it'll be nice to have three picks in the second round again. In three years, one of them might score 20 points for us. In five years, if we're absurdly lucky, one might break 100 points for his career. So, you want another reason to overpay on legitimately good players? Because they will likely have higher value if we want to deal them later, too. Give Taylor Hall $12m this year. Or Pietrangelo. And promise to do whatever you can to facilitate a trade to a contender 2/3 of the way through the season. And you likely get at least a 1st out of it, and a lot higher likelihood that you then draft a guy who will put some decent numbers on the board for you in the next five years.

This is a long post and I know it goes off on a bit of a tangent, sorry about that, but stockpiling picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds is worse than playing the lotto. Even if we're overpaying better players to just come here for 2/3 of a season before being dealt, we're likely getting a far better return and a leg up on the rebuild than spending less on guys like Ryan, Namestnikov, and Merril. And whoever that guy from Vancouver is (I'm not trying to knock the guy with that, I really just can't remember his name).

The Tigers payroll was, and still was in 20 to be honest, bloated far far above what the Detroit market would support. It's patently unfair to use reticence to spend large dollars on the Tigers from 2016-now as any kind of barometer for whether he would as owner pay big contracts or not. The Tigers salary structure was f***ed 8 ways from Sunday with the competitive balance tax. They're paying a ludicrous amount of money (~30m a year until 2024) for a negative WAR player in Miguel Cabrera. They ate gobs of money to be free of Verlander, Upton, Sanchez, etc.

The Wings cap situation for the past decade has been borked. We FINALLY have a time in which massive flexibility exists and all of a sudden... "Why you no sign high price FAs?!" Now, knowing Hall signed 1x8 with Buffalo? Sure, make the call. Maybe even offer him 1x9... but Buffalo got there first.

All of the guys being lent overseas... it could be the pessimistic view you're taking... or it could be that Yzerman is assuming that COVID is still gonna f*** with the AHL and lower leagues in North America so he wants his guys like Seider, Veleno, Raymond, and so on to play and play uninterrupted and not be jerked around to and fro because our leaders can't keep a logical action plan against the pandemic in order. Seider might be ready for the NHL right now... but if he's not, you'd be playing him a little bit in the NHL and hoping to god he doesn't flame out. If he did flame out and sending him down would be the right idea, maybe you wouldn't have a location in Sweden or Germany to send him to because those teams would already have full up rosters.

To the second round and later guys... it's almost like guys taken in later rounds are more project type of players who take longer to make any kind of impact. Tyler Bertuzzi was a good pick, right? He was drafted in 2013 and didn't really stick with Detroit in the NHL until 17-18. Mantha hit the league in 16-17 in a permanent way... he was also taken in 2013. Patience, Winger, patience. I want us to be good again too... but I want us to be good again based on a solid foundation.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Okposo, Ladd, Eriksson, Lucic, Nielsen, etc. Those guys all looked like kind of solid adds in 2016's FA frenzy. Those 5 are among the worst contracts in hockey no more than two-three years later.

In all fairness to the '16 UFA magic 5, all of them looked bad in their 1st year, except Lucic who didn't look bad til year 2.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

In all fairness to the '16 UFA magic 5, all of them looked bad in their 1st year, except Lucic who didn't look bad til year 2.

Right, I'm just saying that just because you sign guys who look like they should be "better" assets for more money doesn't mean they end up that way. I would have taken the risk for Hall at 1x8. Absolutely I would. And tossing together big money for Pietrangelo would probably be a savvy move too... but it's kind of hard to land the top of the market guys when the competition can just offer more. Even Buffalo when signing Hall. You can play on a line with Eichel and Skinner with Dahlin as one of the D men. Does Detroit have anything remotely close to that if you're looking to punt a year to maybe cash in on a long term deal next year?

 

[Winger98]

The difference between MLB and NHL is that NHL has a hard cap. The Wings can make money spending the max cap, they have done it before. The Tigers are not guaranteed to make money even if Chris throws money at it. It's also significantly easier to get into the playoffs in the NHL, and with it comes extra income.

So what happens if the Wings buy Pietra? After re-signing Mantha, Bertuzzi, and Timashov, the team doesn't have a legit 2C and winds up being a borderline playoff team for a few years. That is exactly what the tank proponents wanted to avoid.

I am confident Chris throws money in when there's enough of a core to get into the playoffs, simply because it's good business. He'll make more money with more attendance, instead of losing money like he has the past couple of years.

Keep in mind Pittsburgh almost went bankrupt and the Capitals had their fire sale when Leonsis lost money after trading for Jagr. His exact words were "the market has spoken". Now with Ovechkin pulling in an audience, he's spending to the max even during COVID.

I'm trying to find more recent numbers, but the Tigers made money in 2018 when they lost nearly 100 games and had $131m payroll. This last year they had a payroll of like $45m. You don't think Ilitch is making money hand over fist on the Tigers right now? And he doesn't even have to throw money at the big league team to start getting an advantage. The Tigers have never really went after the international free agents and prospects. And still don't.

What happens if we sign Pietrangelo is that the Wings now have the foundation stone for their blueline in place. It comfortably slots Seider into the second pair and makes Hronek tradeable for help up front. Without a legit 2c, or even a passing one or a similar upgrade up front, I don't think the Wings are a borderline playoff team this year - more like in that 5-10 worst team area), but the year after that when maybe we can leverage Hronek in a deal, Zadina/Ras/Raymond move onto the club, etc. ...yeah, we could be a playoff team and one that could make some noise.

Besides all of that right now is the best time to make investments like Pietrangelo because it's going to be cheaper than it is when times are good, if you can even get in the door at that point. If we can bring in a clear cut #1D right now, yeah, do it. Because drafting one, trading for one, building it out of clay and bringing it to life with a mark on its forehead...all a lot less likely to happen in the future.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Right, I'm just saying that just because you sign guys who look like they should be "better" assets for more money doesn't mean they end up that way. I would have taken the risk for Hall at 1x8. Absolutely I would. And tossing together big money for Pietrangelo would probably be a savvy move too... but it's kind of hard to land the top of the market guys when the competition can just offer more. Even Buffalo when signing Hall. You can play on a line with Eichel and Skinner with Dahlin as one of the D men. Does Detroit have anything remotely close to that if you're looking to punt a year to maybe cash in on a long term deal next year?

Yep, I get what you were saying, I was just having fun at the magic 5's expense.

 

[Holden Caufield]

I think he is an upgrade over Flip and Nielsen.

Kills penalties, can skate, decent hands, motivated and isn’t dust/old. Yzerman knows this guy.

Consistency problems, doesn’t play a ‘hard’ game and face off deficient. Would be the drawbacks.

Another decent flyer with some upside.

 

[Winger98]

In all fairness to the '16 UFA magic 5, all of them looked bad in their 1st year, except Lucic who didn't look bad til year 2.

In fairness to them Okposo has had multiple serious concussions, Ladd has had knee and back injuries, Eriksson has had multiple concussions and knee issues. 2016 UFAs are always brought up as a cautionary tale about signing UFAs but no one talks about how these guys just got recked by injuries. We signed Hatcher back in 2003 and his knee got wrecked and his career derailed. Krupp messed up his back. Maybe we shouldn't have signed Rafalski later on?

 

[Gniwder]

I'm trying to find more recent numbers, but the Tigers made money in 2018 when they lost nearly 100 games and had $131m payroll. This last year they had a payroll of like $45m. You don't think Ilitch is making money hand over fist on the Tigers right now? And he doesn't even have to throw money at the big league team to start getting an advantage. The Tigers have never really went after the international free agents and prospects. And still don't.

What happens if we sign Pietrangelo is that the Wings now have the foundation stone for their blueline in place. It comfortably slots Seider into the second pair and makes Hronek tradeable for help up front. Without a legit 2c, or even a passing one or a similar upgrade up front, I don't think the Wings are a borderline playoff team this year - more like in that 5-10 worst team area), but the year after that when maybe we can leverage Hronek in a deal, Zadina/Ras/Raymond move onto the club, etc. ...yeah, we could be a playoff team and one that could make some noise.

Besides all of that right now is the best time to make investments like Pietrangelo because it's going to be cheaper than it is when times are good, if you can even get in the door at that point. If we can bring in a clear cut #1D right now, yeah, do it. Because drafting one, trading for one, building it out of clay and bringing it to life with a mark on its forehead...all a lot less likely to happen in the future.

I'm sure the Tigers won't be making any money this year, and I'm not a baseball fan so I can't really go much further in that debate.

Krug, Markstrom, Murray, Hall, and Brodie contracts are showing that high end players aren't signing for huge discounts. Pietra is obviously looking for a contender to play for. The only real D available to us was probably Shatty, which is the equivalent of signing Green 6 years ago.

Top end players aren't going to sign with the Wings until there's more of a foundation anyways. You really don't want players willing to play for a losing team, that's how you wind up with Green and Daley. I said all summer that Brodie wasn't signing here, and people were throwing out $4M 2yr BS, lol.

#1D in 2021, #1C in 2022, goalie prospects with 2nd rd picks, start picking up vets in 2022 offseason. You're just gonna have to wait 2 more years.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

In fairness to them Okposo has had multiple serious concussions, Ladd has had knee and back injuries, Eriksson has had multiple concussions and knee issues. 2016 UFAs are always brought up as a cautionary tale about signing UFAs but no one talks about how these guys just got recked by injuries. We signed Hatcher back in 2003 and his knee got wrecked and his career derailed. Krupp messed up his back. Maybe we shouldn't have signed Rafalski later on?

Rafalski was the missing piece, we don't win '08 without him. We were so close in '07, but the refs allowed the "Death by a 1,000 cuts" Ducks to cheat every shift & couldn't call the majority of them...29 other teams also contacted the league regarding this, not just the Wings (I read an article, think it was Al Strachan iirc). '07 WCF was a farce, but to the outsider, that just sounds like a disgruntled Wings fan. Kinda like '09 SCF, Malkin punching Datsyuk's back of head, after the game was over, yet no automatic 1 game suspension. Crosby & his 500 cross-checks to Z's back, crickets from the refs. Buttman condensing the TV schedule so we're playing virtually back to back series vs. rested Pens. Roberts & Guerin roughing up Franzen's head in consecutive years, coming off concussion(s). Ok, I'm pissed now. But yeah,to your point, injuries can't be projected to that degree.