Dekes For Days
Registered User
- Sep 24, 2018
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Your claims have already been proven to be completely baseless, incorrect, and highly misleading.Among D, drafted in the first two rounds who become top-4 D the median age for them becoming full-time in the NHL is younger than Sandin is now, and the median age for them becoming top-4 in the NHL is about the age Sandin is now.
Your Dubas quote is incomplete and cherry-picked from an article largely about the Orlando Solar Bears ECHL team 6 years ago, and its inclusion in the Leaf's development process. The conclusion you have extrapolated from that specific portion of his quote is in many ways the exact opposite of what he was suggesting throughout that interview.
He discusses the importance of not rushing your prospects, letting prospects earn opportunities, and letting prospects go through the development process that's right for them, regardless of how things have been traditionally viewed in the past (for example, that ECHL = garbage). This is discussed in this post you conveniently ignored:
As mentioned, you have created a set of insanely specific and arbitrary (and in some cases, contradictory) rules for development based on an incorrect extrapolation of one partial quote from 6 years ago, and you accuse others of not understanding development, when the first thing anybody should know about development is that there is no one perfect way for all players in all situations, especially during a global pandemic that has delayed or cancelled countless leagues. Anybody who understood development would know this.It's interesting how you simultaneously accuse Dubas of being horrible at development, for doing things that everybody else does and have been historically perfectly normal in the development of top-4 defensemen, but at the same time, hold a cherry-picked, incomplete portion of one answer of his from one interview (largely about the Orlando Solar Bears) from almost 6 years ago before he was GM, as the one and only gospel on development.
I'm not sure how you twisted his statement that basically amounts to the importance of patience, into a narrative about developmental incompetence because Sandin wasn't handed a spot on a competitive team out of camp. You create insanely specific and arbitrary rules, and accuse others of not understanding development, when the first thing anybody should know about development is that there is no one perfect way for all players in all situations, especially during a global pandemic that has delayed or cancelled countless leagues.
For the record, this was the question that was asked...
Don: The organization has talked a change in philosophy toward prospects, and not pushing them, letting them develop in their own time and then moving them up, talk about that and how that might affect the number of players that might be here in Orlando from the Toronto organization. I get the sense that you're looking to have more players than were here last year, down.
And if you'd read it, you'd know it's mainly in regards to the Orlando organization's inclusion in the development process. Actually, it's pretty hilarious because the main takeaways are about not rushing your prospects before they're ready, and not getting hung up on the league somebody is in or giving in to pressure to play somebody somewhere - instead just focusing on what's best for their development. In the previous question, he discusses how moving down a league and being patient has helped some of their players.
In the part you highlighted, he references Carrick and Percy, but that's because, unlike Sandin, they weren't remotely close to ready to be in the NHL and hadn't actually proven themselves worthy of a shot through their play in the AHL, but were pushed to the NHL anyway. This is not the same situation as Sandin. Sandin was not pinballed, and Sandin had proven himself to be worthy of a shot in the NHL. He was not ready at the beginning of the year, and was sent down. He then went on to play really well in the AHL, and won top defenseman at the WJC. He had earned another shot, and there was an opening caused by extensive injuries to the Leaf's defense, including a player who was most similar in style, position, and role.
Was Sandin good enough to play in that situation and get some experience? Yes, he earned his shot, and showed some good signs.
Was Sandin good enough to warrant handing him a spot out of camp, and limiting depth signings on a competitive team, especially when they needed so much defensive depth the year prior? No.
That doesn't mean that Sandin is bad, or failing, or being developed poorly. He's still really young, and we have great depth this year, with no injuries thus far. By the logic you are using, Sandin would be developing just fine if he didn't play in the NHL last year, which doesn't make sense to start with, but then if Toronto had all those injuries and didn't play Sandiin after great AHL play and WJC top defensemen, you'd be complaining about his development just the same. No matter what Toronto did, you would have used it to claim "bad development".
The development track Sandin is on is perfectly normal, even for high-quality NHL defensemen. Your claims are baseless.
Instead of admitting you were incorrect, you have decided to skew your data by including lottery picks, to misrepresent how Sandin compares. The median age for successful defensemen (including top-4 and top-pairing) drafted within 15th overall and 45th overall making their NHL team full-time has been in their D+4 season. Sandin just started his D+3 season.
As usual, you fail to address any of it; instead endlessly repeating the same disproven claims, that didn't have anything to do with this thread in the first place. There is zero reason to believe there is anything wrong with Sandin's development, or the way Toronto is developing its defensemen. Sandin is on track and developing just fine.Yes, I noticed that too - quite misleading. And that's on top of the already misleading criteria, as unlike Sandin, most defensemen don't reach the AHL until at least their D+3.
I was curious, so I went back and looked at the drafts through the cap era. I took any defensemen that was picked between 15th overall and 45th overall, and then I removed the defensemen who had played less than the equivalent of two full seasons (164 GP), or less than 100 GP if within the last 5 drafts. I then looked at when each defenseman made the NHL full-time (played over half a season).
Sandin is in the beginning of his D+3 season.
1 defenseman made the NHL full-time in their D+1 season.
8 defenseman made the NHL full-time in their D+2 season.
6 defenseman made the NHL full-time in their D+3 season.
15 defenseman made the NHL full-time in their D+4 season.
10 defenseman made the NHL full-time in their D+5 season.
7 defenseman made the NHL full-time in their D+6 season.
3 defenseman made the NHL full-time in their D+7 season.
Each grouping features top-pairing defensemen, other than D+7. There is zero reason to believe there is anything wrong with Sandin's development. Biotk's claims are baseless.