Sheldon Keefe Discussion

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Dekes For Days

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Kerfoot has 2 goals in 13 games and Mikyehev has 3 assists, Jimmy Vesey has 3 points
Seems fairly cherry picked when you're looking at three players, and you use goals for one, assists for one, and points for one. This is way too early to start casting players aside because despite playing well, they're slightly below the scoring level one hopes for. Especially when the team is 10-2-1, those players are not getting much if any PP time or consistent linemates, and they bring other skills like PKing.
When Travis Boyd is out scoring you that's a sign you aren't doing enough offensively
Boyd has played well, and is currently at 0.8 P/GP (largely due to Spezza's hattrick), which is much higher than one should expect out of 3rd liners, so that's fairly misleading.
 
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LEAFANFORLIFE23

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Seems fairly cherry picked when you're looking at three players, and you use goals for one, assists for one, and points for one. This is way too early to start casting players aside because despite playing well, they're slightly below the scoring level one hopes for. Especially when the team is 10-2-1, those players are not getting much if any PP time or consistent linemates, and they bring other skills like PKing.

Boyd has played well, and is currently at 0.8 P/GP (largely due to Spezza's hattrick), which is much higher than one should expect out of 3rd liners, so that's fairly misleading.

I can't use goals for Mikyehev he doesn't have any, so I have to use assists or points it doesn't matter which one I use because it is the same result which is 3.

It doesn't matter which category you use the point is the same it's not enough accept that fact because it is a fact, I'm sure you will try to argue that 11 combined between the 3 of them is enough but it's not.

You mentioned Spezza he has the same amount of goals and points as Kerfoot and Vesey combined that says it all
 

MattySnipes

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It's been 60 games under Sheldon Keefe. Here is where team ranks.

Screenshot_20210209-105154_Twitter.jpg
 
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Dekes For Days

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I can't use goals for Mikyehev he doesn't have any, so I have to use assists or points it doesn't matter which one I use because it is the same result which is 3.
Here's an idea: just use points for all three, instead of intentionally trying to make Kerfoot look worse. Again, this is way too early to start casting players aside because despite playing well, they're slightly below the scoring level one hopes for. Especially when the team is 10-2-1, those players are not getting much if any PP time or consistent linemates, and they bring other skills like PKing.
You mentioned Spezza he has the same amount of goals and points as Kerfoot and Vesey combined that says it all
Yeah, it says that Spezza has been really good. Sounds like we have some pretty good depth, even despite multiple injuries.
 

zeke

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Kerfoot has 2 goals in 13 games and Mikyehev has 3 assists, Jimmy Vesey has 3 points

By comparsion Travis Boyd has played 5 games and is out scoring both Vesey and Mikyehev and is only 1 point behind Kerfoot.

When Travis Boyd is out scoring you that's a sign you aren't doing enough offensively, especially when Travis Boyd is doing it in less than half the games


Well mikheyev was technically projected as a top 6 forward this year, not a bottom 6 forward.

Here's the scoring paces for the guys projected as bottom 6 forwards:

Spezza 27gls/55pts
Simmonds 34gls/34pts
Thornton 16gls/33pts
Kerfoot 13gls/32pts
Vesey 3gls/19pts
Barabanov 0gls/0pts

Extras

Brooks 82gls/82pts
Boyd 16gls/66pts
Petan 0gls/41pts
Engvall 0gls/21pts
Robertson 0gls/0pts
Anderson 0gls/0pts
 

LEAFANFORLIFE23

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Jun 17, 2010
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Here's an idea: just use points for all three, instead of intentionally trying to make Kerfoot look worse. Again, this is way too early to start casting players aside because despite playing well, they're slightly below the scoring level one hopes for. Especially when the team is 10-2-1, those players are not getting much if any PP time or consistent linemates, and they bring other skills like PKing.

Yeah, it says that Spezza has been really good. Sounds like we have some pretty good depth, even despite multiple injuries.

Yes on the 4th line we do, Jason Spezza, Travis Boyd, Wayne Simmonds who played a little bit everywhere before he got hurt because he's a Swiss army knife have all pulled their weight offensively, the 3rd line has not.

You can make all the excuses you want the fact is we need more offense out of the 3rd line, Kerfoot scoring last night doesn't change that.
 

LEAFANFORLIFE23

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Jun 17, 2010
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Well mikheyev was technically projected as a top 6 forward this year, not a bottom 6 forward.

Here's the scoring paces for the guys projected as bottom 6 forwards:

Spezza 27gls/55pts
Simmonds 34gls/34pts
Thornton 16gls/33pts
Kerfoot 13gls/32pts
Vesey 3gls/19pts
Barabanov 0gls/0pts

Extras

Brooks 82gls/82pts
Boyd 16gls/66pts
Petan 0gls/41pts
Engvall 0gls/21pts
Robertson 0gls/0pts
Anderson 0gls/0pts

You do realize the fact that you said Mikyehev is technically a top 6 forward makes my point in regards to him even stronger because it makes his struggles even worse.

You do realize that right?
 

zeke

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You do realize the fact that you said Mikyehev is technically a top 6 forward makes my point in regards to him even stronger because it makes his struggles even worse.

You do realize that right?

Sure.

It is too bad that we have one top 6 forward that hasn't produced. Though it sure doesn't seem to be from a lack of chances.

And it's nice that we're getting all that production from the bottom 6.
 

Dekes For Days

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Sep 24, 2018
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Yes on the 4th line we do, Jason Spezza, Travis Boyd, Wayne Simmonds who played a little bit everywhere before he got hurt because he's a Swiss army knife have all pulled their weight offensively, the 3rd line has not.
I mean, so far this season we've had Spezza, Hyman, Simmonds, Kerfoot, Vesey, Mikyehev, Engvall, and Robertson all spend time on the 3rd line, so it seems like you're just picking the players you don't like, and arbitrarily labelling them the "3rd line" to post their stats in misleading ways and complain about them, while ignoring everything else those players have brought, and the fact that our depth scoring has been fine so far.

Odd timing too, with Kerfoot scoring last night, and Mikyehev having two big plays; one that sparked the team, and one that led to a goal.
 
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LEAFANFORLIFE23

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Sure.

It is too bad that we have one top 6 forward that hasn't produced. Though it sure doesn't seem to be from a lack of chances.

And it's nice that we're getting all that production from the bottom 6.

I'm just asking because you do tend to enjoy correcting people and making them look ridiculous but that's not happening here.

Yes it nice the 4th line is producing, fact remains the 3rd line needs to get going and 1 Kerfoot goal last night doesn't cut it.
 

LEAFANFORLIFE23

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I mean, so far this season we've had Spezza, Hyman, Simmonds, Kerfoot, Vesey, Mikyehev, Engvall, and Robertson all spend time on the 3rd line, so it seems like you're just picking the players you don't like, and arbitrarily labelling them the "3rd line" to post their stats in misleading ways and complain about them, while ignoring everything else those players have brought, and the fact that our depth scoring has been fine so far.

Odd timing too, with Kerfoot scoring last night, and Mikyehev having two big plays; one that sparked the team, and one that led to a goal.

Like I just said to Zeke 1 Kerfoot goal last night doesn't cut it.

For the record I like Mikyehev and Kerfoot a lot especially Mikyehev but they need to start chiping in more than they have, Vesey I don't dislike or like he just exists
 

zeke

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I'm just asking because you do tend to enjoy correcting people and making them look ridiculous but that's not happening here.

Yes it nice the 4th line is producing, fact remains the 3rd line needs to get going and 1 Kerfoot goal last night doesn't cut it.

well, we don't even know what the "3rd line" even is.

Mikheyev has spent as much time on the top two lines as on the "3rd line".

Simmonds has spent as much time on the "3rd line" as he has on other lines.

The one guy that has been consistently on the 3rd line is Kerfoot - and his ~35pt pace is solid 3rd line production. And he'd probably have a couple more points if Mikky wasn't so snakebit.
 

Critical13

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Feb 25, 2017
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One thing I really need to hand it to Keefe and our boys for is that they identified weaknesses and they went out and improved on them.

Keefe made changes to his staff, the PP and our system.

Matthews identified mobility as an issue, and improved .

Marner identified his shot as an issue, he went out and added a new weapon.

I think that is an overlooked aspect to the character of some of the key people in our organization right now. It shows character to be at the very top and still be open to improve.
 

Petrus

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Jan 5, 2017
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Matthews

Under Babs (235gms): 18:15toi, 44gl / 81pt pace
Under Keefe (59gms): 21:37toi, 61gl / 95pt pace

Marner

Under Babs (259gms): 17:50toi, 23gl / 77pt pace
Under Keefe (54gms): 22:34toi, 27gl / 106pt pace


Imagine being a coach and having this perfect dream combo fall in your lap and deciding to not ever bother using it.

I was told to believe by the mainboards that increase TOI does not lead to increase in production.
 
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Gary Nylund

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Like I just said to Zeke 1 Kerfoot goal last night doesn't cut it.

For the record I like Mikyehev and Kerfoot a lot especially Mikyehev but they need to start chiping in more than they have, Vesey I don't dislike or like he just exists

I wouldn't worry about it. There's always going to be something at any point in time that's not clicking ideally. How many teams do you think there are who's top line, 2nd line, 3rd line and 4th line are all producing at a reasonable rate and playing good defence and who's 3 defence pairs are all playing as well as they could be expected to play and they're getting good goaltending? Oh I forgot, and special teams are also playing well?

From my eye test our 3rd line has been OK, playing pretty good D, getting chances as well, just not converting them which is a lot less worrying than if they weren't getting chances at all. And we have 3 forwards injured which obviously doesn't help so all things considered, if our bottom 6 production is our biggest problem then we are sitting pretty indeed. :)
 
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Duffman955

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Mar 4, 2010
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Kerfoot isn't as bad as people are making him out to be.

He seems quite smart at positioning and getting the puck out of high danger areas. His offense is mediocre.

Can we do better with 3.5 mil? Maybe. Is that a huge issue? No
 

zeke

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so far the Leafs seem a lot more comfortable late in games than they used to. They seem to just flip a switch and take over close games in the 3rd

The one upside of this softer division may be just the healthy dose of confidence and swagger they earn this year, which could pay off in spades in those elimination game playoffs scenarios.
 

Gabriel426

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Jun 30, 2015
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What impress me the most about this year Leafs is the way they play defence. They are starting to do all the little things that are adding up. They are also not afraid to shove opposing players when they crowd the net. Lastly, you can tell that they have a believe in them that they are going to win the game. Ofcourse, they are not going to win every game but they do have that confidence now.
 

CantLoseWithMatthews

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The one upside of this softer division may be just the healthy dose of confidence and swagger they earn this year, which could pay off in spades in those elimination game playoffs scenarios.
playing in a nightmare division didn't seem to help much, so hopefully things will be different now. Although, the Leafs seem way more focused and have way more buy in than they ever had under Babcock, and that's not because of the easier division
 
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