Woof. And not just because they were great tonight. They played well before tonight too.
3rd and 4th line been holding their own so far this season. 4th line demolished the canucks tonight. Very nice depth.
Sheldon Keefe Discussion
- Thread starter LEAFANFORLIFE23
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Woof. And not just because they were great tonight. They played well before tonight too.
3rd and 4th line been holding their own so far this season. 4th line demolished the canucks tonight. Very nice depth.
zeke
The Dube Abides
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zeke
The Dube Abides
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Under Keefe (58gms)
Marner 28gl/104pt pace
Matthews 59gl/94pt pace
Tavares 35gl/81pt pace
Nylander 40gl/79pt pace
Marner 28gl/104pt pace
Matthews 59gl/94pt pace
Tavares 35gl/81pt pace
Nylander 40gl/79pt pace
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stickty111
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You can criticize Keefe for some questionable decisions and they are valid, but very few times did this team not come ready to play.
stickty111
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Seriously this is as absolutely basic as it gets - Gardiner and Schultz went to college. Neither ever signed with Anaheim, never went to a camp, never did a single thing with Anaheim. Anaheim had no more involvement with their development than Daffy Duck and Darth Vader did.
so where does that rank them league wide, specifically Matthews + Marner?
This season + last seasons these guys have been at the top
Player - Games Played - Points - Assists - Points per game
Draisital - 83 gp - 50 g - 82 a - 132 p - 1.59 ppg
McDavid - 76 gp- 42 g - 79 a - 121 p - 1.59 ppg
Mackinnon - 79 gp - 37 g - 70 a - 107 p - 1.35 ppg
Panarin - 39 gp - 37 g - 73 a - 110 p - 1.39 ppg
Pastrnak - 73 gp - 53 - 49 a - 102 p - 1.40 ppg
Kucherov 68 gp - 33 g - 52 a - 85 p - 1.25 ppg
Marchand 80 gp - 34 g - 67 a - 101 p - 1.26 ppg
Pat Kane 82 gp - 39 g - 60 a - 99 p - 1.21 ppg
Malkin 65 gp 26 g - 53 a - 79 p - 1.22 ppg
Marner 70 gp - 22 g - 62 a - 84 p - 1.20 ppg
Matthews 80 gp - 55 g - 37 a - 92 p - 1.15 ppg
NHL Stats
zeke
The Dube Abides
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Since Keefe (58gms):
PPG: Marner #7, Matthews #12, Tavares #29, Nylander #31
GPG: Matthews #1, Nylander #16, Tavares #25, Marner #58
Since Keefe took over, Matthews is 1st in Goals/GP and Marner is 7th in Points/GP, while getting less PP time than everybody above him.
I'd like to see Matthews improve his assist total so he can enter top 3 in the league
Spezza and Boyd have, which is more of what I was referring to.
Nm, you were quoting someone I have on ignore.
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No I knew this was Petan’s first game. I was talking before with that poster who said our depth was getting outplayed 80% of the time. I previously gave a list of depth players that had played pretty well and spezza+boyd were on it. So I was implicitly referring to those 2.
Nm, you weren’t referring to a post from me.
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deprw
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If player is good enough to become impact player - he will become impact player. You can't force young dman to become 1st pairing dman by playing him from right after draft or rot good player by over ripening him in the AHL. If player is good enough he will break trough despite of the curve. If we don't put him in the beer league or offer him sex, drugs and rock 'n roll.
That Sandin sits now is beyond optimal, but if he has skating, IQ and all other tools. He will make it eventually. He was top pairing dman in the AHL as 18yo. If he can adjust to the NHL speed and get proper body to sustain the play he will excel. It's about his hockey IQ and if he can do his thing in the NHL speed. I think it was either build up his physics during pandemic or let him play in the europe. I think we chose wisely, because his mature player already. This situation is suboptimal, but I don't think you could predict that there is no injuries to our dman, if you look up the schedule and amount of injuries we have sustained few last seasons.
As question to you and @IPS: did Capitals take huge risk by playing Ovechkin in the KHL for two years after draft? In your model if you don't throw players in the NHL right away you might ruin them and they probably don't make it.
Rants Mulliniks
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You can remove them if it makes you feel better. You will still end up in the same place.
Bomber0104
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Good post.
Give me a list of defencemen that got ruined from over-seasoning and I'll show you a list five times as long with defencemen that got ruined from under-seasoning.
Toronto of all teams knows first hand about that.
X66
114-110
- Aug 18, 2008
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People hating on Keefe for the simple fact they don't like Dubas is one of the biggest loser things on the boards.
Keefe has literally 'come up in the system', and helped the organization win an AHL title...
The record under him at the NHL level has been great as well.
Keefe has literally 'come up in the system', and helped the organization win an AHL title...
The record under him at the NHL level has been great as well.
Yawn. All you show is that you don't know anything and you are incapable of learning anything because all that matters to you protecting your cult leader. As Dubas has made VERY clear, and everyone who knows anything at all about development knows, young players should ONLY be brought into the lineup if they will be permanent from that time onward, and should not be used as injury replacement. You might notice the "young" part. Different development experts will have slightly different timeframes. For Dubas, in regards to players like Sandin and Liljegren, and he outlined this clearly as 18 to 21. At age 22 bringing in players on a non-permanent basis - as injury relief, shuffling them up and down would not be harmful. Obviously something in terms of development does not go from harmful to non-harmful overnight. The younger, the more harmful - again - everyone who knows anything at all about development knows this. At 21 it would be a little bit harmful. At 20 really harmful. At 19 really, really harmful. At 18, you are simply a complete idiot.
Manson was 23.
Montour was 22
Vatanen was a couple months away from 22.
Theodore was 20 - and the Ducks were widely criticized for their harmful development of him.
Larsson was 19 - and has not developed well at all.
Sandin was 19
Liljegren was 20
Your post might be worth my time if you actually knew what I said and addressed what I said, as well as what Dubas has said, and what all development experts know. Because what I have said so far the complete opposite of the nonsense that you are claiming.
So perhaps you can start with learning the the basic knowledge of development that helped get Dubas a job within the Leafs' organization:
"We don't want our players going up to the Leafs before they're ready, and we don't want them shuttling up and down. We want players to be called up to the Leafs when they're young and on the first two years of their entry-level contracts ONLY when they prove that they can be a Leaf, all the time. We don't want players going up and then coming down. They go up, and they come back down, and it really rattles the players' confidence. To make the team and get recalled, it gets your psyche out of order a little bit. And I think that's on us, it's not on the players. We have to be the ones making sure we're doing what's right by the players."
I opposed Sandin being used last year at all (and I was one of very few on here) because he was not going to be permanent, and the Leafs had no suitable partner for him to play with. That is because I understand development. It was not that it couldn't be done. The Avs did a phenomenal job with Girard when he was the same age Sandin was, even though Girard was much smaller and had far less pro and international experience, but that was because the Avs did things right and it was obvious that the Leafs would do everything wrong.
So the Leafs' f***ed up last year, and have already harmed his long-term development. Something that Dubas knows full well.
I supported the Leafs' sending Sandin overseas for the entire season this year, because, again, I knew that the Leafs would do everything wrong. The idea that the best way for a 20-year-old Sandin to get some development is for injuries to happen in the NHL - something that a 20 year old should NEVER be used for - shows how extraordinarily incompetent this team is.
Now the simple statistical reality is that when people say that Sandin and Liljegren are young and ahead of the curve they are simply talking out their ass. Among D, drafted in the first two rounds who become top-4 D the median age for them becoming full-time in the NHL is younger than Sandin is now, and the median age for them becoming top-4 in the NHL is about the age Sandin is now. Neither Sandin or Liljegren are even close to having a full-time position let alone being top-4. That doesn't mean that I advocate rushing them (I have no interest in seeing either in the lineup as injury relief this season, and continue to understand that this team will never do it right, and even if they did become permanent the team would just do as terrible a job as they did with Dermott) - that simply means that they are unlikely to become top-4 Ds. Perhaps that is because they didn't have the ability, but the completely shitty job that Toronto has done developing them is definitely a contributor - and I would say a major one.
(And seriously, not that it has any relevance at all to anything I have ever said, but when people say simple facts, they should try to get those facts correct. Ovechkin spent one year in the KHL after being drafted - and that was only because the NHL was locked out for that entire season)
zeke
The Dube Abides
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So back on topic - Sheldon Keefe!
How amazing is it to have a coach who so instantly has been able to have this team looking organized and gameplanned, with real structure and discipline?
After Babcock spent years literally making the team worse defensively, Keefe comes in and turns it all around on a dime. Nearly 10 years of Carlyle and Babcock "systems" which amounted to nothing more than longbomb stretch pass zone exits and dump-in zone entries - perhaps the worst possibly systems to use for this collection of talent.
Man oh man is it refreshing to have a real coach in charge for the first time in.....crap, I don't even know when.
How amazing is it to have a coach who so instantly has been able to have this team looking organized and gameplanned, with real structure and discipline?
After Babcock spent years literally making the team worse defensively, Keefe comes in and turns it all around on a dime. Nearly 10 years of Carlyle and Babcock "systems" which amounted to nothing more than longbomb stretch pass zone exits and dump-in zone entries - perhaps the worst possibly systems to use for this collection of talent.
Man oh man is it refreshing to have a real coach in charge for the first time in.....crap, I don't even know when.
Keefe is winning.. just keep it up ... change da culture here ... well done!!!!!
Bomber0104
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He's a good coach who's in it for the right reasons.
I'll almost always defend a coach of the Maple Leafs too.
It isn't an easy job.
Rants Mulliniks
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