Prospect Info: Sharks Prospect Info/Discussion Thread XIII
- Thread starter The Nemesis
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Last year I might have said that Middleton has an alright chance of making the NHL one day, but he's definitely had a bit set back. Ive only been able to watch five cuda games, but he has definitely not looked as good as he was last year.
The Nemesis
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Gambrell above Balcers I get. Gambrell has a longer track record and is generally performing really well for his level. He was the obvious choice for #1. Even with Balcers being an AHL all-star and coming off his 40-goal WHL season last year, I'm fine with Gambrell getting that tiebreaker push even if it's largely down to draft pedigree. Honestly though, it's probably one of the very few things on that list that I do get or can rationalize.
Middleton/Wiederer is the biggest reason I think there's some heavy pro-Cuda bias shenanigans going on. Wiederer has 10 points in 25 games playing mostly a bottom 6 role until the more recent spate of Sharks call-ups. And while the AHL doesn't disclose TOI or special teams assignments (beyond PP/SH points), it doesn't really seem like being stuck with some combo of Mashinter/Sandberg/Bollig/Martin for some stretches is necessarily suppressing his offence. I really don't get why he outclasses any of the 3 WHL guys on the list (Halbgewachs, Blichfeld, Gregor) who are all having decent years in Jr (which are also as good or better than anything Wiederer did in Jr himself)
Middleton it almost looks like he's the recipient of some helium for being the better of the top pairing guys for the Cuda. the "official" lineups lately have always listed him and DeSimone as the #1 pair, so it's like he gets a bit of a push because "if he's the #1 guy on the Cuda, he must be better than the ones behind him" But I question why his lower ceiling isn't a factor while Ferraro damn near makes the Canadian WJC squad and is having a very fine year in the NCAA and is relegated to 15th. Especially since Middleton had basically no business being in the defensive pool conversation before this list.
The biggest problem I'm having with the list is consistency. There doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason for why players slot where they do and above/below others. Except that it seems like he prefers someone who's having an OK pro year vs a good amateur year. Even if it's not the player's fault they're not in the pros (since of the 3 WHL guys, only Halbgewachs could even turn pro yet). Wiederer ranks highly in spite of modest production, while Gregor is producing well but is busted down to 7 slots later. Chartier has played all of 5 games this season with injuries and manages to snag 11th, while Helewka is punished for being in the doghouse now in spite of having a crazy hot start. Ferraro becomes the ultimate dark horse from the last draft class, but is slotted in behind Reedy, who I've seen it said looks lost at times and is having basically zero scoreboard impact for his NCAA team.
This feels like one of those silly THN Future Watch team lists that come out every year where I always accuse the writer and the Sharks org (since they are apparently the source of scouting information the author uses to compile said list) of sandbagging it to obfuscate the "real" thoughts the team has on its prospects. Where we get nonsense like Taylor Doherty, top 1-3 prospect, or that time that Taylor Dakers was like a top 6 prospect and called the best goalie in the system. Who knows, maybe they just loved dudes named Taylor the way this list seems to love guys on the Barracuda.
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Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
Middleton is the ranking in the most befuddled about. I haven’t seen him this year but I wasn’t all that impressed with him last season and if you’re right that he’s taken a step back... yikes.
hohosaregood
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My whole individual shot analysis for college players has me convinced that Norris, Ferraro, and Gambrell have pretty good chances to make the show for now. Won't convince me otherwise.
Nem are there any specific reasons for the rankings after each prospect? Or just a big list. I really want to see that Middleton and Wiederer justification. Hell, why is Helewka 14th and Wiederer 5th?
PacificOceanPotion
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The Nemesis
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There are little paragraphs (like <250 words) for each prospect. But for the most part they simply summarize some aspect of the player's season rather than providing any actual contextual clues for why players slot at any given spot compared to anyone else.
I simply didn't want to post them here because the Athletic has the paywall and I'm never 100% sure on what the policy is for re-posting paywall works, even in part.
The gist of each of those 3 is:
Middleton: He hasn't looked great, but Sommer and team management like him, so he must be good. Compares him to Dillon
Wiederer: He's kind of good in an all-around sense, should shoot more, and is "producing" in spite of the fact that he is averaging less than 0.5 PPG
Helewka: Started the year on the top line but is in Sommer's doghouse. He put on some weight to get stronger in the off-season and worked on his skating, but Sommer recently confided that the only reason he was in the lineup was that he was healthy, and he apparently has to work on his game in a vague and non-specific way to get "better" so he can possibly make the NHL. In other words, he did everything right but the coach hates him for some reason, so he must suck.
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The Nemesis
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Gene Parmesan
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Gambrell is very quick and has a nice skillset. If anything he will be a good player for the Barracuda next year.
The Nemesis
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BaileyMacTavish
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I tuned in to the Denver game for a bit. Gambrell is pretty creative in the offensive zone
I was high on Helewka last season. He quietly put together a nice AHL season. Never flashy, but in a way that reminded me a bit of Pavelski, he was able to get to the right spot at the right time, more often than not. He seemed to think the game really well and used that to his advantage even though he wasn't the most talented skater on the ice.
It seems to me like this year he's gotten away from thinking the game. I've seen more mental mistakes from him this season than I think I did all of last season. Poor choices with the puck, away from the puck, you name it. The whole team has its struggles, so it's not as if Adam is alone in this, but he's definitely having his share.
The "he's only in the lineup because he's healthy" sentiment is puzzling to me. Despite his issues, he's one of the better offensive performers on this team. I realize that's not saying much. He scored .5 ppg last season and was middle of the pack. This season he's scoring .56 ppg and he's our 3rd leading scorers. But it's not as if there's someone waiting in the wings to take his spot right now...
The Nemesis
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That's a pretty presumptuous statement. Any number of prospects could have top 6 potential, or at least a top 6 skillset. Maybe not top line, but Balcers is offensively capable enough to be a scoring winger. Maybe Halbgewachs proves he can hang with the pros and becomes a Tyler Johnson type. Blichfeld and Gregor are both well-rounded and could have Couture-like 2nd line upside if it all works out. I'm not saying any of those is necessarily likely, but it's not out of the realm of possibility and thus I think it's too early to write any of them off as for sure not being potential top 6 guys.
Yeah, as I said above, I don't really love a lot of the justifications on that list for its rankings. The comments regarding Helewka seemed weird given that he wasn't having a bad season (he's like 7 or 8 points away from matching his offensive total for last year), but I know from watching his output that he got off to a hot start and cooled since then. So I can see maybe being down on him for his more recent play, but it feels a bit like DeVine's rankings are suffering from a heavy recency bias. That his swoon is more indicative of his "real" talent level than his hot start.
Gene Parmesan
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LadyStanley
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KirbyDots
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I was at the prospects game. Dhooge was the fan favorite by far, won over everyone in attendance. If you could put that kid's heart in 6'3" body you'd have an nhl allstar.
PacificOceanPotion
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One thing I have noticed over the years with these sorts of ranking that often gets lost is that players who are closer to the NHL (e.g. AHL) but have lower ceilings often get a higher rating than many posters would give.
IMO it isn't an indictment of the rating, just not looking at it from an apples to apples perspective.
IMO it isn't an indictment of the rating, just not looking at it from an apples to apples perspective.
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Gene Parmesan
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